How many trout die "doing" pictures

[Don Andersen]

Research has shown <> 50% of trout die after 30 seconds and 100% of trout die if kept out of the water for 60 seconds.
Fishermen don't kill fish, cameras do.

Don

[Flieguy]

that's very different than statistics I have heard for trout C&R mortality.

I got this from a Trout Unlimited head biologist:

single, unbaited hook-7% mortality

treble hook, unbaited-10% mortality

baited hook-25% mortality

Trout also recover more quickly than walleye, which release a hormone that causes great stress and does not leave their system for quite a while. If a trout will die, it is usually within a couple hours of being caught, whereas walleye may die 24 hours later.

this is as best as I can remember from the conversation with the Bio.

other factors affect it such as how the fish was handled, water and air temp, size of hook and where it was hooked, etc.

I think that due to the great number of variables, it would be difficult to accurately measure mortality rates, results vary quite a lot from study to study

[Taco]

What did Brian say about factoring in grin and grips and summertime water temps?

[BobLoblaw]

Well, Don, that's good enough for me.
From now on, when I post a trip report, I will simply describe the fish i caught or draw a sketch from memory.

[CanuckShooter]

The fish I catch suffer a 99% mortality rate because we eat them, the only fish released are big lake trout. People shouldn't be allowed to catch and release any thing beyond their daily limit in my opinion.

[Redfrog]

This raises a few questions.

So catch and release doen't work very well after all?

How many fishermen have caught the same fish more than once?

Do catfish have 9 lives or do they die in 30 seconds as well?

Ever bring a bunch of perch home from ice fishing and have them spring back to life in the sink?

Wonder what the bucket brigade uses to keep their fish alive while transporting in the bucket?

[trooper]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

The fish I catch suffer a 99% mortality rate because we eat them, the only fish released are big lake trout. People shouldn't be allowed to catch and release any thing beyond their daily limit in my opinion.

X2 I wont fish any water body that isn't stocked. In my opinion, fishing is and always has been a method of food gathering.

[commieboy]

Originally Posted by Don Andersen

Fishermen don't kill fish, cameras do.

Don

Who holds the camera while it kills the fish? Or are the cameras running around and killing fish at random? Are we talking about self aware technology?! Holy crap! Rise of the machines!!!!!!

But seriously, I believe this. Still, I think if you are a responsible, experienced fisherperson, a picture doesn't much harm.

Keep the fish in the net until you're ready to take the shot.

Have the camera person pre focus on a part of your body which will more or less have the same distance from the lens to the fish so there is minimal refocussing.

If the first pic doesn't work out, get the fish back in the net for recovery time before trying again or give up and snap a pic in the net.

I have learned through much experience that studies are skewed to show the results that they want to show.

[rycoma]

You mean everything in main stream media and on the internet isn't always true? Oh god I'm gonna go and hide!

[Norman]

Those numbers seem quite high to me, so high in fact that I believe every species of trout would be on the protected list if it were true. I have no doubt that trout or any fish for that matter should not be out of the water for long and some do perish due to mishandling. It's good to bring up now and again to get people thinking about how they handle fish, so it's never a bad topic to discuss. I always use a net and try to do my part to keep the fish in the water but if I have someone with me I will at times get a quick photo if the person I'm with is ready with the camera.

[RavYak]

Originally Posted by commieboy

I have learned through much experience that studies are skewed to show the results that they want to show.

That isn't really the case with this one, it is a decent experiment and they clearly state the following.

"The purpose of the present experiments was not to predict actual percentages of mortality in the wild when exhausted fish are briefly exposed to air."

It was an experiment for them to view the affect of exhaustion and air deprivation on the fish's physiological state(blood lactate etc). The catch and release implications were included as a side note because similarities can be drawn.

Don is the one that skewed the study(by misreporting it) to show the results he wanted(and yet he was still off by a factor of over 30% to his original claim)...

[Don Andersen]

Originally Posted by RavYak

That isn't really the case with this one, it is a decent experiment and they clearly state the following.

"The purpose of the present experiments was not to predict actual percentages of mortality in the wild when exhausted fish are briefly exposed to air."

It was an experiment for them to view the affect of exhaustion and air deprivation on the fish's physiological state(blood lactate etc). The catch and release implications were included as a side note because similarities can be drawn.

Don is the one that skewed the study(by misreporting it) to show the results he wanted(and yet he was still off by a factor of over 30% to his original claim)...

Rav...

As I pointed out and apologized for is relying on memory. It had been several years since I read the study.
I was wrong and corrected the error.
OK!


Don

[tight line]

Originally Posted by Don Andersen

Rav...

As I pointed out and apologized for is relying on memory. It had been several years since I read the study.
I was wrong and corrected the error.
OK!


Don

Still a great read Don. And like RavYak said the fish were played to exhaustion in the study. Definately a good reminder to play the fish properly and return As quickly as possible!

[BCSteel]

So the take home from this is that Don is ok with killing a minimum of 12% (a number taken from his provided study) of the fish that he catches every year. Fish played to release (which is actually more handling than was required for the 12% mortality in the study) mortality is ok for Don. But you are a horrible person for killing a fish (up to 38% of them) if a quick pic is taken.

IMO, Don is a hypocrite for telling you not to take a pic because you will kill fish but at the same time believing in his own righteousness to kill a minimum of 12% of his released fish. If he wants us to believe his study then we need to believe all of it, not just the parts he picks and chooses to belittle people for wanting a photo of their catch.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander, right?

[commieboy]

Originally Posted by RavYak

That isn't really the case with this one, it is a decent experiment and they clearly state the following.

No that I dispute the findings, but many experiments are set up this way and worded specifically to make them seem impartial or unbiased. Semantics plays a large part in published studies.

I can almost guarantee that another study exist which will at least partially contradict the findings of this study.

Don't put too much stock in the words of scientists. Funding will almost always skew results, even in the case of seemingly impartial studies.

Still, don't bug the fishes more than you already have!!! Get them into the water quickly.

[chimpac]

Fish mortality percentage caused by catch and release can be debated but the fact is there is mortality.

Is the entertainment provided to people who do catch and release worth any mortality.

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by Don Andersen

Research has shown <> 50% of trout die after 30 seconds and 100% of trout die if kept out of the water for 60 seconds.
Fishermen don't kill fish, cameras do.

Don

Ummmmm

Which research is that?

[Don Andersen]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

Ummmmm

Which research is that?

Read the thread.

Abstract is there.

Don

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Don Andersen

Research has shown <> 50% of trout die after 30 seconds and 100% of trout die if kept out of the water for 60 seconds.
Fishermen don't kill fish, cameras do.

Don

BS....

[Dak1138]

Does anyone bother to read the whole thread before commenting...
Don please recheck your 'facts' before posting. Most of your 'crusades' are worth fighting for but to totally mess up stats this bad really hurts your credibility.
Unfortunately I am one of those that take a pic of most everything I catch because no one believes I caught anything. It may be from too many outings of getting skunked. However if I bring one in and I have trouble getting the hook out or whatever I just send them on their way, nonsense making things worse. And I also leave them in the net in the water as long as possible and I usually get the camera turned on and ready while I am bringing it in.
I know I am not perfect but I will release more without going for the camera from now on.

[lannie]

I think the eastern slopes would do very well to limit angling in the afternoon when the water is low, slow and warm. I believe the fatality rate is quite high even if the fish does not leave the water with the very low oxygen content. Personally I think I release fast(like every other fisher on here) and there is no way at this time of year with no precip. and outside temps of 75 f and hotter my fatality rate would not be at least 20 percent. Higher with bigger fish that took longer to bring in so I try and stay away from places like the Crow in these conditions.

[Junglefisher]

What were the control fish subjected to that only 10% of them survived?

Who takes 60 seconds to take a photo? Get your watch out and time 60 seconds and run through the actions of taking a photo of a fish. 10 seconds is excessive for those actions.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by Don Andersen

Research has shown <> 50% of trout die after 30 seconds and 100% of trout die if kept out of the water for 60 seconds.
Fishermen don't kill fish, cameras do.

Don

I used to take pics of fish.Now the memories are enough for me.

[Don Andersen]

Mission accomplished!

If a few more people take some care with their catch, maybe their kids will have fish to fish for.


Don

[tight line]

Originally Posted by Don Andersen

Mission accomplished!

If a few more people take some care with their catch, maybe their kids will have fish to fish for.


Don

All i will tell you Don. Is i take a lot of Fish Pictures(Most of Ones I Keep) i am a Lucky Guy and have the opportunity to Fish A LOT!(not always for my desired Catches..)Despite how some of mine look..(not so much the more recent ones in my albums..) if i put a timer on the Camera, they would not even be close to Out of water for a Min.. Now i am not saying this isn't a issue because it is.. But i never judge a photo.. But i agree i see a LOT that are upsetting.. Beat up Fish Aint Cool

And definately good job with the thread! A lot of viewers!! They say humans retain about 5%of what they read.. But every bit helps!!

[Northern Yaker]

This thread is nothing but a load of ****...

[goldscud]

I saved the fish but almost drowned capturing his spirit on film

[Weedy1]

Originally Posted by buckman

I used to take pics of fish.Now the memories are enough for me.

Sound a lot like my sex life.

[Taco]

Originally Posted by Weedy1

Sound a lot like my sex life.

What, you got pictures??

[Weedy1]

Originally Posted by Taco

What, you got pictures??

Yes, Polaroids