Mountain Mule deer an Elk numbers

[buckman]

Seems that the numbers are still way down and have been for many years. Cougars,wolves,and other predators are increasing. Open slopes and ridges are empty. I can remember hunting the 400 zones when game was plentiful.

For the most part you never needed a draw back then. The draw system seems to have had little impact on the population of game,at least where I hunt.

Whitetails are doing well but that's about it.

So is this the way its going to remain? The mountain states in the US seem to be doing OK,however rumor is some decline is being observed there also.

Such a shame that with the game habitat we have here in Alberta's mountains, its so empty for the most part.

[roper1]

My son hunted 404 last fall, dozens of MD bucks, elk herds numbering 100+

We had heard predator ravages, he was pleasantly surprised at the game numbers.

[dalewig]

Good to hear some positive news on 404 , one of my favourite places anywhere and was debating drawing elk in there in next few years.

It’s be nice if there were some recent aerial surveys in the mountain zones for elk to compare to historical data . Could be just me but I’ve looked and didn’t see any recent ones , prolly a budget cut.

But would be awesome to see better numbers of mountain elk in the future

[Big Grey Wolf]

Many US western states seem to be able to manage for extremely high elk numbers. Maybe we should buy a few plane tickets to send our Biologists to Montana or Washington to learn some real game management skills.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf

Many US western states seem to be able to manage for extremely high elk numbers. Maybe we should buy a few plane tickets to send our Biologists to Montana or Washington to learn some real game management skills.

A huge factor is the funding in the US. The Pittman act alone generates a huge amount of money for wildlife management.

I actually worked on a few projects with Bio’s in BC and it was an eye opener on how much their hands are tied. There is also political issues with management. I watched projects get canceled, not approved, or be poorly run because of red tape or lack of funds. I know the 3 different Bio’s I assisted were smart but could not do what they knew they needed to do. One ended up quitting because he couldn’t handle having his hands tied and being stuck at his desk do to funding issues

I bet if I got involved here in Alberta it would be the same problem

We all want better management and the only way it’s going to happen is if there is funding for theses guys to do there job properly

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf

Many US western states seem to be able to manage for extremely high elk numbers. Maybe we should buy a few plane tickets to send our Biologists to Montana or Washington to learn some real game management skills.

Elk and Mule deer are down 90%+ from Grande Cache to the Bow River.
South of the Bow, elk and mule deer populations are now also decreasing rapidly. Within a few years, 404 will also have few elk and mule deer.

The predator population, particularly wolves, are well documented with Alberta biologists to being the cause.

Problem is the politicians, along with a few senior biologists would not, and will not implement predator control to save our last few mountain elk.

This is particularly a disgrace as biologists have stood by while will studied historic migratory herds have been extirpated. These herds are gone for a very long time, and may never come back as the migratory knowledge died with the last few cows.

It is absolutely disgusting what the Alberta politicians and biologists have allowed to happen.

[slough shark]

I haven’t seen a single elk track on my trapline this year, 428/429 some deer around but nowhere near carrying capacity

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Elk and Mule deer are down 90%+ from Grande Cache to the Bow River.
South of the Bow, elk and mule deer populations are now also decreasing rapidly. Within a few years, 404 will also have few elk and mule deer.

The predator population, particularly wolves, are well documented with Alberta biologists to being the cause.

Problem is the politicians, along with a few senior biologists would not, and will not implement predator control to save our last few mountain elk.

This is particularly a disgrace as biologists have stood by while will studied historic migratory herds have been extirpated. These herds are gone for a very long time, and may never come back as the migratory knowledge died with the last few cows.

It is absolutely disgusting what the Alberta politicians and biologists have allowed to happen.

Terrible
Can’t these biologist be sent packing?
How do we change the trend?

[buckman]

Originally Posted by roper1

My son hunted 404 last fall, dozens of MD bucks, elk herds numbering 100+

We had heard predator ravages, he was pleasantly surprised at the game numbers.

Those elk and deer likely come in from the east, pushed when the hunting pressure starts there.Was he hunting early or late season?

The ridges in 404 north of Indian Graves was a great place for Elk,Moose and Mule deer(big ones) in the 80s.Last time I scouted there I saw a few tracks and very little game,along with a pack of wolf pups,not sure where the adults were.

Glad your son did well,hopefully they are there in good numbers again.

[buckman]

I thing the Cougars are harder on the Mule deer. A Bio told me they kill one every 7-10 days. The Wolves seem to target everything,however from my experience its the Moose and Elk they go for when available.

Most Cougars taken by hunters are Toms,the females can breed quickly and kill a lot of deer.

Grizzly and Black bears take many calves in the spring,we all know there's plenty of them around also.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by buckman

I thing the Cougars are harder on the Mule deer. A Bio told me they kill one every 7-10 days. The Wolves seem to target everything,however from my experience its the Moose and Elk they go for when available.

Most Cougars taken by hunters are Toms,the females can breed quickly and kill a lot of deer.

Grizzly and Black bears take many calves in the spring,we all know there's plenty of them around also.

When it comes to mule deer you are correct cougars are the predator doing the most damage and they even target mule deer over whitetail. There has been a number of studies showing this but the number of days between kills can vary

If there is high wolf numbers in the area cougar kills increase because wolves will push them off their kill causing them to hunt more often too

[buckman]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

When it comes to mule deer you are correct cougars are the predator doing the most damage and they even target mule deer over whitetail. There has been a number of studies showing this but the number of days between kills can vary

If there is high wolf numbers in the area cougar kills increase because wolves will push them off their kill causing them to hunt more often too

That explains,at least to an extent why Whitetails are fairing better than the Mule deer. I have also read that once a deer freezes Cougars will often leave it and hunt for another one.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by buckman

That explains,at least to an extent why Whitetails are fairing better than the Mule deer. I have also read that once a deer freezes Cougars will often leave it and hunt for another one.

Whitetail are more adapt to avoiding predators, a more varied diet, adapt to different habits better, and are more prone to having twins

Overall they are just better adapted to survival then mule deer is why often fair better

I have heard the rumor cougars not eating frozen deer but I had them hit areas I pre baited when trapping in the past. These bait stations were frozen so I question that theory

[MooseRiverTrapper]

Do the math on the estimated cougar population in Alberta. Then multiply that by 52 deer a year (one a week).

They were really getting after the wolves with the chopper the last few years. But not south of highway 16 that I heard of.