Another Outfitter charged.

Red Bullets · #1 09-06-2018, 11:15 AM

Glad to see the crooked outfitters are being thinned out.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...rray-1.4812257

Albertadiver · #2 09-06-2018, 11:19 AM

And he is a member in good standing with APOS.....

Dean2 · #3 09-06-2018, 11:24 AM

Interesting that APOS admits that 25 or more outfitters or guides are convicted annually. That is a truly high rate of convictions for a small group of supposedly well trained and professional hunters. Makes you wonder how many laws they are breaking they aren't being caught for.

Red Bullets · #4 09-06-2018, 11:27 AM

That statement amazed me too. 25 offenses a year out of 2000 members seems pretty high for the upstanding APOS members.

Dick284 · #5 09-06-2018, 11:30 AM

Hasn’t been convicted of anything yet.

Just charged.......

Red Bullets · #6 09-06-2018, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dick284

Hasn’t been convicted of anything yet.

Just charged.......

Good point. Let's hope it was all a misunderstanding. 14 charges of various kinds that seem pretty obvious may have an explanation.

pikergolf · #7 09-06-2018, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean2

Interesting that APOS admits that 25 or more outfitters or guides are convicted annually. That is a truly high rate of convictions for a small group of supposedly well trained and professional hunters. Makes you wonder how many laws they are breaking they aren't being caught for.

The math would tell you a lot. They cannot possibly all be watched.

ghostguy6 · #8 09-06-2018, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Bullets

Good point. Let's hope it was all a misunderstanding. 14 charges of various kinds that seem pretty obvious may have an explanation.

With both hunting and fishing related charges I'd be willing to bet its not just a misunderstanding. Good to see the Outfitters are under the microscope as well, too bad they wont likely be shut down if convicted.

Dean2 · #9 09-06-2018, 12:15 PM

Dick

These guys may not be convicted yet but odds on bet is they will be. All in, there are way too many outfitters and guides being convicted of serious offences and still being allowed to work in the industry. Either APOS needs to start sanctioning their people properly or they need to be replaced as the governing body. Judges also need to start routinely issuing bans on hunting and outfitting or guiding as part of the convictions.

Joe Black · #10 09-06-2018, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Bullets

That statement amazed me too. 25 offenses a year out of 2000 members seems pretty high for the upstanding APOS members.

there will be those that will still come to the defence that these are "not the norm" or "doesn't represent all outfitters". could be in some cases. pretty hard to argue with figures that are given from the APOS on their own members infractions though,

another justification they will have is that jo-hunter also breaks the law. Would be interesting to see if "Jo-hunter" offences are handed to 13% of hunter each year, or get "charged" with dozens of offences like outfitters do.

i would have more respect for outfitters if they would admit this is a huge problem THEN DO SOMETHING TO STOP THESE ACTIVITIES. handing out fines in the 100's of thousands of dollars just might do it. would love to see more fines in this range. some of these outfitters have revenues in the millions. fight fire with fire.

skidderman · #11 09-06-2018, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean2

Interesting that APOS admits that 25 or more outfitters or guides are convicted annually. That is a truly high rate of convictions for a small group of supposedly well trained and professional hunters. Makes you wonder how many laws they are breaking they aren't being caught for.

I don't know why you call them pro hunters. Most are average guys outfitters hire and many are not pro. Heck one outfit wanted to hire me but I can assure you I am only an average hunter. I do believe guides have to sign a letter stating they will follow all laws but that's only for honest people.

elkhunter11 · #12 09-06-2018, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skidderman

I don't know why you call them pro hunters. Most are average guys outfitters hire and many are not pro. Heck one outfit wanted to hire me but I can assure you I am only an average hunter. I do believe guides have to sign a letter stating they will follow all laws but that's only for honest people.

Anyone that receives pay for hunting, is by definition a professional hunter. However, just because you receive pay, doesn't mean that you are a superior hunter.

bucksman · #13 09-06-2018, 03:52 PM

Sounds to me like he was catching fish without a licence and using them as bear bait?
•Exceeding the possession limit for northern pike fish
•Fishing without a sport fishing licence
•Wasting edible northern pike and walleye fish
•Catching and retaining fish of a prohibited length

Joe Black · #14 09-06-2018, 04:12 PM

times are tough. gotta squeak every nickle of profit you can in the spring before the big money comes in the fall.

cut your overhead by poaching fish(for bait) that are being protected so their population does not not collapse.

yes. im sure this guy would do everything else with his outfitting buisness by the book.

Piece of Stool.

KCL · #15 09-06-2018, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucksman

Sounds to me like he was catching fish without a licence and using them as bear bait?
•Exceeding the possession limit for northern pike fish
•Fishing without a sport fishing licence
•Wasting edible northern pike and walleye fish
•Catching and retaining fish of a prohibited length

Exactly, and why? It sounds like he was in a zone where baiting is permitted. Sounds like laziness, didn't want to haul bait in or put up his bait signs. Just like any industry, there are good and bad.

Joe Black · #16 09-06-2018, 05:35 PM

So I'm curious. what other industry can say that 13% of their members get brought up on charges before the courts every year while performing their business?

And I'm assuming it's not the same 13% every year with APOS,,,,, but it might be if they don't do anything with member s that break the law.

Big Bull · #17 09-06-2018, 05:41 PM

Just to be clear, 25 out of 2000 outfitters would be 1.25%

Kurt505 · #18 09-06-2018, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Bull

Just to be clear, 25 out of 2000 outfitters would be 1.25%

I’m sure each outfitter has more than one guide, probably closer to around 4 guide average. I’m not sure if that 2000 includes guides or not though.

nube · #19 09-06-2018, 05:47 PM

What's the percentage of residents getting caught? Would love to compare

pikergolf · #20 09-06-2018, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nube

What's the percentage of residents getting caught? Would love to compare

Why? You think it will put outfitters in a better light?

Red Bullets · #21 09-06-2018, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I’m sure each outfitter has more than one guide, probably closer to around 4 guide average. I’m not sure if that 2000 includes guides or not though.

In the article it states, " The Alberta Professional Outfitters Society said most of the province's 484 registered outfitters and 1,500 guides are law-abiding, and that each year on average, 25 are convicted of offences under the Wildlife Act."

That makes 1984 outfitters and guides.

Kurt505 · #22 09-06-2018, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Bullets

In the article it states, " The Alberta Professional Outfitters Society said most of the province's 484 registered outfitters and 1,500 guides are law-abiding, and that each year on average, 25 are convicted of offences under the Wildlife Act."

That makes 1984 outfitters and guides.

Ok, that would make it a 3 guide per outfitter average then.

Red Bullets · #23 09-06-2018, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nube

What's the percentage of residents getting caught? Would love to compare

The number of residents getting caught is irrelevant. All people, professional or not, that commit offences taint our hunting heritage as a whole. It is these offenders that will be hunting's demise if they are not dealt with.

What's hard to comprehend is why anyone with a hunting career and outdoor lifestyle would jeopardize it by pushing the limits.

ÜberFly · #24 09-06-2018, 06:35 PM

Money!

pikergolf · #25 09-06-2018, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ÜberFly

Money!

Yes, there is a lot of pressure to put an animal down. People are no longer interested in an experience, they want an animal and the outfitter better put out or loss business. The sport has changed, it is being taken over by the mouthpieces and the greedy.

Bushrat · #26 09-06-2018, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean2

Interesting that APOS admits that 25 or more outfitters or guides are convicted annually. That is a truly high rate of convictions for a small group of supposedly well trained and professional hunters. Makes you wonder how many laws they are breaking they aren't being caught for.

Begs the question, is it the same 25 yearly or different batch.

Dick284 · #27 09-06-2018, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Bullets

Good point. Let's hope it was all a misunderstanding. 14 charges of various kinds that seem pretty obvious may have an explanation.

You guys are incredible.
All I did was post the current situation, never said one iota about my feelings on the matter.

But if you really want to know, I am hoping these guys get the book thrown at them, and that APOS gets a bit more manure on their face.

Again quite jumping to conclusions when a guy isn’t running around with a torch and a pitchfork.

Dick284 · #28 09-06-2018, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean2

Dick

These guys may not be convicted yet but odds on bet is they will be. All in, there are way too many outfitters and guides being convicted of serious offences and still being allowed to work in the industry. Either APOS needs to start sanctioning their people properly or they need to be replaced as the governing body. Judges also need to start routinely issuing bans on hunting and outfitting or guiding as part of the convictions.

Just because I posted a note re affirming where things are actually at, you guys think I’m in bed with or ok with this situation. I’m not ok with such stuff, and if the evidence supports the charges I hope they get the book thrown at them. And hopefully APOS gets a bit more stink on them as a result.

Quite over thinking and admonishing those of us who aren’t touting a torch or a pitchfork.

Trappingman · #29 09-06-2018, 09:35 PM

Heard on the radio while I was in peace river Bear paw outfitting was charged with illegal bear baiting and killing mulie bucks in the wrong WMU, just about seems like there is just as many crooked ones as honest ones lately.

Tom Cat · #30 09-07-2018, 02:12 AM

Well I’m sorry but I’m not sorry, you guys sound like a bunch of lefty’s attacking gun owners cause some pos shot up a town. The vast majority of outfitters that I know do things by the book, they have an awful lot to lose doing otherwise, I live and work out in areas where I see and deal with resident hunters all the time and if we had enough conservation officers to monitor and enforce the current laws, outfitters would look like saints.