Building ohv trails on crown land

[rugatika]

So all the ohv hacking lately has me wondering. What all is involved in building actual trails on crown land? Bridges across streams etc. Is this something you need millions of dollars in environmental studies, and 12 years of government permitting or what?

It would seem to me that there is a public want for a decent ohv trail system in Alberta. There will always be the guys that go busting all over the place, can't stop that anymore than you can stop poaching, people shooting up signs, and speeders. But I would think that the more designated trails you have in the province the less offensive river crossings etc that you would have.

[rugatika]

http://www.aohva.com/rides.php

as a start.

[Grizzly Adams]

These guys build and maintain trails, west of Sundre.

http://altasnowmobile.ab.ca/trailscl...owmobile-club/

Grizz

[Chung66]

Ask the local Forestry office about it.

[Kaz Dog]

The current situation in AB is that there is no legal "Designated Trail System" on public land. There is a trail system within provincial parks, as per the legislation. The provincial "Regional Plans" were put in place to address public lands access - and trails. The South Saskatchewan Regional Plan is underway, with the first kick-at-the-can/suggested "Recreational Plan" (for both motorized and non-motorized use) for the S.S.R.P. to be introduced at a stakeholders meeting in early June, for the Porcupine Hills area of the S.S.R.P.

How do I know this? I represent a stakeholder group invited by the Gov't of AB to be involved in the ongoing S.S.R.P. discussions. I am not sure what is happening in other areas of the province, but I do know that the S.S.R.P. is only the second Regional Plan to be down the road this far.

If you are not involved with a stakeholder group - a recognized club, organization, or basically a N.G.O. - you may not ever know what is happening, and only see the results when they are announced. I am not saying an individual's input is not important, just that the government is working with "recognized stakeholder groups", not citizens one by one.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by rugatika

So all the ohv hacking lately has me wondering. What all is involved in building actual trails on crown land? Bridges across streams etc. Is this something you need millions of dollars in environmental studies, and 12 years of government permitting or what?

It would seem to me that there is a public want for a decent ohv trail system in Alberta. There will always be the guys that go busting all over the place, can't stop that anymore than you can stop poaching, people shooting up signs, and speeders. But I would think that the more designated trails you have in the province the less offensive river crossings etc that you would have.

This is an amazing idea.

[Big Grey Wolf]

Alberta Forestry/Public lands has recently brought in restrictions for trappers making new trapping trails and building bridges across streams. I believe it is being influenced by Forestry FMA holders that do not want others cutting their trees. You now need to get FMA holder permission as a trapper, good luck getting approval for recreation trail.

[rugatika]

I went to join the aohva and I see they are not accepting individual memberships. They only represent local clubs it appears.

[JB_AOL]

It's usually a money/time thing vs anything else.

The mountain bike community does the same thing, and they have no problem going through the proper channels to get a trail built, but it's usually the money, and volunteer time that kills most projects. Most people would rather spend the day riding, than building. The difference with the mtb community, is that there seems to be some recognition that it costs money to build trails, and alot of the users will donate money if they can't volunteer for trail work.

WTBS, the length of trails needed to keep atv'ers interested, could make this cost prohibitive.

I'm not trying to discourage you, just showing the challenges, I'm sure there are clubs already on it, just need to start joining them and get out to their meetings.

I said it 20 years ago when I used to quad, they need to charge a user fee (like $5/quad) at places like mclean, and waiperous, and it would allow $ for trail maintenance, and enforcement.

[ArryDawg]

Originally Posted by jb_aol

it's usually a money/time thing vs anything else.

The mountain bike community does the same thing, and they have no problem going through the proper channels to get a trail built, but it's usually the money, and volunteer time that kills most projects. Most people would rather spend the day riding, than building. The difference with the mtb community, is that there seems to be some recognition that it costs money to build trails, and alot of the users will donate money if they can't volunteer for trail work.

Wtbs, the length of trails needed to keep atv'ers interested, could make this cost prohibitive.

I'm not trying to discourage you, just showing the challenges, i'm sure there are clubs already on it, just need to start joining them and get out to their meetings.

I said it 20 years ago when i used to quad, they need to charge a user fee (like $5/quad) at places like mclean, and waiperous, and it would allow $ for trail maintenance, and enforcement.

Nailed it!!!!!

[220swifty]

Originally Posted by ArryDawg

Nailed it!!!!!

And pretty easy to tack on at a registry office. Those who won't be using public lands aren't going to be registering. Unfortunately that is also an invitation for the government to collect more money, and we know how that goes.

[ArryDawg]

Originally Posted by 220swifty

And pretty easy to tack on at a registry office. Those who won't be using public lands aren't going to be registering. Unfortunately that is also an invitation for the government to collect more money, and we know how that goes.

I'm going to give you a "Nailed It!!" too. I wouldn't be upset if a couple of bucks was added to my ATV registration for the purpose of maintaining trails, but like you say that's an invitation to the government.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by ArryDawg

I'm going to give you a "Nailed It!!" too. I wouldn't be upset if a couple of bucks was added to my ATV registration for the purpose of maintaining trails, but like you say that's an invitation to the government.

What is the registration fee for then anyways? Should the entire fee not go towards it? Additional fees do not need to be tacked on.

[rugatika]

If there's any fees, I'd rather see them going right to the club that does the work. As soon as the government starts collecting fees it then has to go through 14 middle managers and a beer fund before it actually accomplishes anything. Keep it voluntary.

[fatboyz]

In the Rocky area the Bighorn Heritage ATV Association maintains and builds trails in the Bighorn Dam and Hummingbird area. All the trails in the Bighorn PLUZ are designated trails so that's a good example of where it can work!

[Klondike]

Originally Posted by Kaz Dog

The current situation in AB is that there is no legal "Designated Trail System" on public land.

Are you sure about that? There sure seems to be a lot of designated trails on all the different pluz maps. I've ridden on many of them. Here are just a few of those trail maps.

http://esrd.alberta.ca/recreation-pu...re-Feb2016.pdf

http://esrd.alberta.ca/recreation-pu...ap-Jul2015.pdf

http://esrd.alberta.ca/recreation-pu...ap-May2015.pdf

Originally Posted by Kaz Dog

How do I know this? I represent a stakeholder group invited by the Gov't of AB to be involved in the ongoing S.S.R.P. discussions. I am not sure what is happening in other areas of the province, but I do know that the S.S.R.P. is only the second Regional Plan to be down the road this far.

.

I find it surprising that you represent a stakeholder group and you're not aware that these designated trails exist

[rugatika]

Originally Posted by fatboyz

In the Rocky area the Bighorn Heritage ATV Association maintains and builds trails in the Bighorn Dam and Hummingbird area. All the trails in the Bighorn PLUZ are designated trails so that's a good example of where it can work!

http://www.bhas.ca/index.html

Just been checking out their website. Looks like they do some amazing work regarding environmental repair, trail maintenance etc.

[1badshot]

I tipically ride around the Crowsnest Pass and they have a local group in the area that does a lot of work for the trails in the area. Group anme is Crowsnest Pass Quad Squad

[ArryDawg]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

What is the registration fee for then anyways? Should the entire fee not go towards it? Additional fees do not need to be tacked on.

What's your solution then? Don't know what trails you're riding, chap, I can clearly see my OHV registration fees do not go to maintaining the trails I'm on. Then again, the amount of cans I pick up on the trails every year, more than pay for my registration. Whatever money is left over I'd be happy to donate to an Atv club.

[woods_walker]

Big Grey Wolf
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Alberta Forestry/Public lands has recently brought in restrictions for trappers making new trapping trails and building bridges across streams. I believe it is being influenced by Forestry FMA holders that do not want others cutting their trees. You now need to get FMA holder permission as a trapper, good luck getting approval for recreation trail.

This trail restriction is a GoA restriction, not a forestry FMA holder initiative. The amount of trees that a trapper would cut down is insignificant in the grand scheme of things and most trees a trapper would cut would be on the smaller side. Why make more work for yourself, just like a low impact seismic line.

Having done some work on the Trans Canada trail through crown land, the GoA (ESRD/Public Lands at the time) can be downright difficult to deal with to the point that it is stupid. Sometimes this is the individual you are dealing with, sometimes it is a bigger issue. Some watercourse crossings require engineering certification and depending on the proximity to a major watercourse there can be even more restrictions. The cost to build and maintain trails can exhaust a group pretty quickly.