And so it begins in the U.S.

[scrapper]

Well while I certainly respect the comments and opinions on this thread, there is no such thing as the absolute right to defend yourself or your property in Canada. Thinking so will find you on the wrong side of the law rather quickly. Having a right to do anything is determined by the society we live in. If someone decides to break into your home you do not have the right to defend yourself, you have the right to use" reasonable force" to defend yourself.What that means it is the courts who make the decision on your rights not you. My take on a right to do something means the the consequences of my actions do not impede freedom. By that I mean not being sent to jail because some judge decides my actions in the defense of my life or my property was exsessive. Frankly we are either law abiding or we are not, the current laws simply do not give any person in Canada the RIGHT to protect ourselves. Those two little words "reasonable force" are how your precieved right will be interpreted by the law.

I am not saying that is right or wrong that is up to you to decide, what I am saying is that the law is clear with respect to any of us and the level of force we use in self defense. If you want to know what your actual rights are as a Canadian citizen then the simple solution is to read the Canadian Constitution it clearly describes what your rights and freedoms are.

Your's and my rights are dictated to us by the society in which we chose to live. If you do not like the laws here or you think your constituional rights are a detrement to you ability to protect yourself, the simple solution is to exercise your Right to move to a local that better suits your beliefs. You want the right to protect your life and property without the restriction of reasonable force the solution is to move to Texas. You want the right to carry a handgun the simple solution is to move to a state that allows people to do that. The theory is simple in nature, if you want the right to carry a hand gun it is a lot easier and makes a lot more sense for you as an individual to find a place to do that, what you cannot expect is to think the rest of society should change to suit your needs.

I am not being flipant with those remarks, I am just sating that certain societies have different laws which create different personal "RIGHTS". If you chose to be Canadian then you are expected to follow the Canadian laws. How you feel about those laws are a choice you get to make on your own, what is right for me may not be right for you what however is constant is that the same laws apply to all of us.

You want to change the laws, simple get your name on the ballot, and people will exercise the most basic democratic right we have...the right to vote. The people decide, that is how democracy works.

[Tactical Lever]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by scrapper

Well while I certainly respect the comments and opinions on this thread, there is no such thing as the absolute right to defend yourself

(2) Every one who is unlawfully assaulted and who causes death or grievous bodily harm in repelling the assault is justified if

(a) he causes it under reasonable apprehension of death or grievous bodily harm from the violence with which the assault was originally made or with which the assailant pursues his purposes; and
(b) he believes, on reasonable grounds, that he cannot otherwise preserve himself from death or grievous bodily harm. [R.S. c.C-34, s.34.]

or your property in Canada. Thinking so will find you on the wrong side of the law rather quickly. Having a right to do anything is determined by the society we live in. If someone decides to break into your home you do not have the right to defend yourself, you have the right to use" reasonable force" to defend yourself.What that means it is the courts who make the decision on your rights not you.

Ok, but I think that if someone wants to cause death or grievous injury to my family or myself. I will do everything in my power to make sure that we're there for the court date. It's vastly better than the alternative.

My take on a right to do something means the the consequences of my actions do not impede freedom. By that I mean not being sent to jail because some judge decides my actions in the defense of my life or my property was exsessive. Frankly we are either law abiding or we are not, the current laws simply do not give any person in Canada the RIGHT to protect ourselves. Those two little words "reasonable force" are how your precieved right will be interpreted by the law.

I am not saying that is right or wrong that is up to you to decide, what I am saying is that the law is clear with respect to any of us and the level of force we use in self defense. If you want to know what your actual rights are as a Canadian citizen then the simple solution is to read the Canadian Constitution it clearly describes what your rights and freedoms are.

Reread it.

Your's and my rights are dictated to us by the society in which we chose to live. If you do not like the laws here or you think your constituional rights are a detrement to you ability to protect yourself, the simple solution is to exercise your Right to move to a local that better suits your beliefs. You want the right to protect your life and property without the restriction of reasonable force the solution is to move to Texas. You want the right to carry a handgun the simple solution is to move to a state that allows people to do that. The theory is simple in nature, if you want the right to carry a hand gun it is a lot easier and makes a lot more sense for you as an individual to find a place to do that, what you cannot expect is to think the rest of society should change to suit your needs.

No one can dictate your or my rights. That's why they're rights. If you don't want to carry, or own guns, move to Britain. See what I did there?

This is my country too, so I'll try to better it.

I am not being flipant with those remarks, I am just sating that certain societies have different laws which create different personal "RIGHTS". If you chose to be Canadian then you are expected to follow the Canadian laws. How you feel about those laws are a choice you get to make on your own, what is right for me may not be right for you what however is constant is that the same laws apply to all of us.

You want to change the laws, simple get your name on the ballot, and people will exercise the most basic democratic right we have...the right to vote. The people decide, that is how democracy works.

So if you lived in a society that required your first born male for a life of military service, you would merely comply. The state demands it, right? What right do other people who seek to change the law have, if I have no right to change the law? Seems a little lopsided and dictatorial to me.

[Sneeze]

Originally Posted by scrapper

Your's and my rights are dictated to us by the society in which we chose to live. If you do not like the laws here or you think your constituional rights are a detrement to you ability to protect yourself, the simple solution is to exercise your Right to move to a local that better suits your beliefs.

This is the 2nd most dangerous thing I have ever read on AO.

First of all... tell that to the people that lived in the satellite states of the former Soviet Union. Tell that to the people of North Korea, Darfur, Bosnia. Would you like me to go on?

Sorry boss, MY rights are not dictated to me by the society I live in. They are inalienable, given to me by God, Allah or whatever you want to think. They cannot be taken away, voted away, legislated away, ruled away. These rights are worth fighting and dying for.

I take issue with this argument. Nobody started up a conversation with a sperm and an egg one day and said "You two... if you want to get together and create Sneeze, you better agree to these rules of society". I never agreed to these rules. I never signed up for any of it. Tyranny is very common under the guise of "common good".

It boils my blood when I hear the argument similar to "pay my fair share", "your duty to society", "public safety". I couldn't care less about society, when did I agree to these restrictions? When did I submit to the will of the majority?

[scrapper]

Originally Posted by Sneeze

This is the 2nd most dangerous thing I have ever read on AO.

First of all... tell that to the people that lived in the satellite states of the former Soviet Union. Tell that to the people of North Korea, Darfur, Bosnia. Would you like me to go on?

Sorry boss, MY rights are not dictated to me by the society I live in. They are inalienable, given to me by God, Allah or whatever you want to think. They cannot be taken away, voted away, legislated away, ruled away. These rights are worth fighting and dying for.

I take issue with this argument. Nobody started up a conversation with a sperm and an egg one day and said "You two... if you want to get together and create Sneeze, you better agree to these rules of society". I never agreed to these rules. I never signed up for any of it. Tyranny is very common under the guise of "common good".

It boils my blood when I hear the argument similar to "pay my fair share", "your duty to society", "public safety". I couldn't care less about society, when did I agree to these restrictions? When did I submit to the will of the majority?

If my comment was the second scariest, this one has to be the first. May I ask you a few simple questions, how do you feel about the US constitution, how do you feel about the Canadian constitutional rights and freedoms. Do either of these documents mean anything to you at all. Both documents are products of their respective societies. Both documents are designed to prevent tyranny. I am interested in your views, on society and your comment that you couldn't care less about society.

If you couldn't care less about society , how do you view other peoples rights and freedoms, do they have any. I care deeply about society, my right to vote, I abide by all laws even the one's I don't agree with. I have my own opinions but am not so naive as to believe that while the will of the minority is important it cannot be disputed that the will of the majority is what we live by. It seems to me the will of the majority is the cornerstone of democracy.

You certainly have the right to your opinion, I respect that but your comments have raised a few questions in my mind.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by scrapper

If my comment was the second scariest, this one has to be the first. May I ask you a few simple questions, how do you feel about the US constitution, how do you feel about the Canadian constitutional rights and freedoms. Do either of these documents mean anything to you at all. Both documents are products of their respective societies. Both documents are designed to prevent tyranny. I am interested in your views, on society and your comment that you couldn't care less about society.

If you couldn't care less about society , how do you view other peoples rights and freedoms, do they have any. I care deeply about society, my right to vote, I abide by all laws even the one's I don't agree with. I have my own opinions but am not so naive as to believe that while the will of the minority is important it cannot be disputed that the will of the majority is what we live by. It seems to me the will of the majority is the cornerstone of democracy.

You certainly have the right to your opinion, I respect that but your comments have raised a few questions in my mind.

The major differences between the constitution of the USA and the Canadian version, is that the USA constitution has the second amendment, as well as declaring all US citizens equal under the law. The Canadian version has neither, and in fact our laws include legislated racism, and inequality under the law. I have spent the last two weeks in the USA, and am posting this from the USA. What I have noticed over the past two weeks is just how concerned many US citizens are over the direction I which the USA is headed. They are concerned that the current administration is sacrificing individual rights and freedoms, with the excuse that it is for the benefit of society as a whole. They are concerned that the USA is heading in the same direction that Canada has been headed for many years. From what I can see, this will very likely lead to the defeat of the Obama administration. Unfortutunately It may already be too late to save the individual rights and freedoms for Canadians.

[Hagalaz]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Unfortutunately It may already be too late to save the individual rights and freedoms for Canadians.

Which is why Alberta needs to stop being Canadian.

We need to get out of this country as soon as possible.