Outfitter Illegally Sold Bighorn Sheep Permits to an American?

[walking buffalo]

Details are sketchy and convoluted, but the gist seems to be that an American puchased Alberta Bighorn Sheep Outfitter Permits from the new Mantracker, Chad Lenz ( Savage Encounters Outfitting).


I look forward to F&W's and APOS's statement after the court case.




http://www.calgarysun.com/2012/06/18...ighorn-permits

The relationship between a U.S. trophy hunter and TV’s new Mantracker was less than “warm and fuzzy,” a Calgary court heard Monday.

Bruce Morgan testified he had an arrangement with Chad Savage Lenz, the new star of OLN’s Mantracker, to lease bighorn sheep hunting permits on his behalf.

Morgan, who is suing Lenz claiming breach of trust and breach of contract, said he purchased two hunting permits for non-resident Albertans for $105,000.

But after having troubles dealing with getting payment from Lenz for the 2005 and 2006, hunting seasons, he decided to look for a different hunting outfitter to handle the leases.

Morgan said he didn’t receive the $20,000 paid by hunters to use the permits in those years from Lenz until December, 2006.

The plaintiff admitted to Lenz’s lawyer, John Boulton, he transferred the lease agreement to another outfitter in 2007, without telling the defendant he wouldn’t have them available for hunters.

“If I had an agreement with someone that I hadn’t paid them ... I probably wouldn’t be booking any hunts in the future,” Morgan said.

“We didn’t have a warm and fuzzy relationship in December, 2006.”

Morgan said when he purchased the permits he consulted with a lawyer who informed him he’d need a local connection, such as Lenz, to lease the permits to hunters.

“He explained those permits would always have to be held my an Albertan, a Class-S guide,” he told lawyer Teddy Nobles.

Morgan is seeking a court declaration the permits are his and damages for lost income while they’ve been under Lenz’s control.

Lenz, of Caroline, has countersued and is also seeking damages.

He was introduced as the new Mantracker last month, replacing Terry Grant, who had starred for the first six seasons of the show.

Lenz is set to testify Tuesday.

[cochranenite]

is he the same outfitter i seen on tv taking Tom Miranda Big horn sheep hunting with a bow>> seen it on wild tv

[Frans]

Originally Posted by cochranenite

is he the same outfitter i seen on tv taking Tom Miranda Big horn sheep hunting with a bow>> seen it on wild tv

Yup, same...

[Albertadiver]

This shall prove interesting!

[Rocky7]

Tell me again how good it is that outfitters are sold tags that Albertans can't get?

[Redfrog]

I'd wait till ALL the info comes out before I'd be feeling too froggy on this one.

[steve]

Disagreement between two business partners... What's the big deal?

[avb3]

As usual, I suspect that APOS will do nothing. The usual excuse is "double jeopardy". They didn't even have the balls to pull the license for a multiple convicted poacher who did jail time in the States for Lacy Act and was assessed the largest fine to an outfitter here in Alberta.

The only credibility they have is in promoting the outfitting industry, but their disciplinary committee is nothing but show case.

It's time for their DAO to be pulled back by the Minister.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by steve

Disagreement between two business partners... What's the big deal?

I'm sure you know, but in order to answer the question....

Bighorn Allocations can only be owned by an Alberta citizen who holds a Class S outfitter designation.

From the scrambled media report, the American claims that he purchased the permits from Lenz, and then leased the permits to another outfitter.

The American claims he has control of the permits, and is suing for a declaration from the Ab courts that they are now his, which would be illegal.


This is a very interesting web with lots of spiders.

[steve]

The American claims fault? The outfit that leased the permits.. Who is that?

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

I'm sure you know, but in order to answer the question....

Bighorn Allocations can only be owned by an Alberta citizen who holds a Calss S outfitter designation.

From the scrambled media report, the American claims that he purchased the permits from Lenz, and then leased the permits to another outfitter.

The American claimss he has control of the permits, and is suing for a declaration from the Ab courts that they are now his, which would be illegal.


This is a very interesting web with lots of spiders.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Interesting....this proves the almighty dollar reigns supreme! Nice that an American thinks he can come in here and own something that he can't. Also nice that someone from here seems to have sold it to him to give him that impression.....

Nothing shocks me anymore....

LC

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by Rocky7

Tell me again how good it is that outfitters are sold tags that Albertans can't get?

I trust that was a rhetorical question... right?

[huntin]

Originally Posted by steve

Disagreement between two business partners... What's the big deal?

X2. The guy got ****y when he tryed to come on a hunt but savage already had the hunts booked for 2 years when told he'd have to wait he tried to pull the tags and lease them. To another outfitter.

[huntin]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Details are sketchy and convoluted, but the gist seems to be that an American puchased Alberta Bighorn Sheep Outfitter Permits from the new Mantracker, Chad Lenz ( Savage Encounters Outfitting).

He did not purchase them from chad I think he purchased them with chad.

[steve]

What AB animals died illegally in this case?

[outdoorsmen101]

Good post Walking Buffalo. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Lenz and his guides have always been in trouble in this area for a variety of things. He should have got a better lawyer though if he intends to win the case.

Talking about selling tags to Americans, another outfitter who lives on the other side of highway 22 from Lenz sold his permits to an American consortium. I believe a Resident here holds the permits for them. All legal so I am told.

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

I'm sure you know, but in order to answer the question....

Bighorn Allocations can only be owned by an Alberta citizen who holds a Class S outfitter designation.

From the scrambled media report, the American claims that he purchased the permits from Lenz, and then leased the permits to another outfitter.

The American claims he has control of the permits, and is suing for a declaration from the Ab courts that they are now his, which would be illegal.


This is a very interesting web with lots of spiders.

You gotta wonder if this was a con on Lenz's part against a gullible Yank ? At the least, more evidence what a slimy business the Outfitting game is.

Grizz

[Stinky Coyote]

see how addicting sheep hunting is! people will do whatever, spend whatever to chase the almighty bighorn....personally i cannot blame them lol, anyhow, no amount of armchair quarterbacking will do any good, its in the system, let it play out now

[drake]

non resident (canadians and aliens) should not be able to hold any interest in alberta outfitts.......ive often wondered how Shawn Mann (american) is able to operate his bird camp east of edmonton.

[Sled Ed]

Originally Posted by drake

non resident (canadians and aliens) should not be able to hold any interest in alberta outfitts.......ive often wondered how Shawn Mann (american) is able to operate his bird camp east of edmonton.

I was told they are alowed to opperate as game bird outfitter only

[gunslinger]

Walking Buffalo, You better read what you quoted a little closer before you post Chads name in this manner.

(Outfitter Illegally Sold Bighorn Sheep Permits to an American?)

Heres what you posted.

Details are sketchy and convoluted, but the gist seems to be that an American puchased Alberta Bighorn Sheep Outfitter Permits from the new Mantracker, Chad Lenz ( Savage Encounters Outfitting).

Walking Buffalo the tags were not purchased from chad they were put in chads name.( why you had to put the new mantracker on there is beyond me).

Morgan said when he purchased the permits he consulted with a lawyer who informed him he’d need a local connection, such as Lenz, to lease the permits to hunters.

“He explained those permits would always have to be held by an Albertan, a Class-S guide,” he told lawyer Teddy Nobles.

So when Bruce borrowed money to chad, chad purchased the tags from Stricker and Ken they were always in chads name.

So when things got tight and Chad was late on making a payment to Bruce ,Bruce tryed to transfer the tags into Frank Simpson name.

Of course the tags were never in bruces name so he couldnt, but the paperwork caused a chitshow which in return the 60000$ worth of hunters chad lost in that year caused another battle and no hunters were booked in that year.

I only posted here to set the facts straight. Like Steve said business deal gone sour.

[drake]

Originally Posted by gunslinger

Walking Buffalo, You better read what you quoted a little closer before you post Chads name in this manner.

(Outfitter Illegally Sold Bighorn Sheep Permits to an American?)

Heres what you posted.

Details are sketchy and convoluted, but the gist seems to be that an American puchased Alberta Bighorn Sheep Outfitter Permits from the new Mantracker, Chad Lenz ( Savage Encounters Outfitting).

Walking Buffalo the tags were not purchased from chad they were put in chads name.( why you had to put the new mantracker on there is beyond me).

Morgan said when he purchased the permits he consulted with a lawyer who informed him he’d need a local connection, such as Lenz, to lease the permits to hunters.

“He explained those permits would always have to be held by an Albertan, a Class-S guide,” he told lawyer Teddy Nobles.

So when Bruce borrowed money to chad, chad purchased the tags from Stricker and Ken they were always in chads name.

So when things got tight and Chad was late on making a payment to Bruce ,Bruce tryed to transfer the tags into Frank Simpson name.

Of course the tags were never in bruces name so he couldnt, but the paperwork caused a chitshow which in return the 60000$ worth of hunters chad lost in that year caused another battle and no hunters were booked in that year.

I only posted here to set the facts straight. Like Steve said business deal gone sour. But no laws or wildlife acts were ever broke

So how does the american factor into this?....was he the money man? and this Chad guy was the tag holder (out of necessity, since the american can't "own" the tag)

[Rocky7]

Originally Posted by gunslinger

Walking Buffalo the tags were not purchased from chad they were put in chads name.( why you had to put the new mantracker on there is beyond me).

Morgan said when he purchased the permits he consulted with a lawyer who informed him he’d need a local connection, such as Lenz, to lease the permits to hunters.

“He explained those permits would always have to be held by an Albertan, a Class-S guide,” he told lawyer Teddy Nobles......

So when things got tight and Chad was late on making a payment to Bruce ,Bruce tryed to transfer the tags into Frank Simpson name.

When the law says you can't own something because, say, you are a foreigner and to get around that you "put it in someone else's name" in order to own it, why is that not fraud in your books?

Would you lend your name to a scheme like that? How about for money?

The idea that the Outfitting racket should regulate itself is dumb.

[gunslinger]

Originally Posted by drake

So how does the american factor into this?....was he the money man? and this Chad guy was the tag holder (his puppet?)

Drake you can call Chad whatever names you want,But no need of it ( your better than that). And yup bruce was the money man.

[outdoorsmen101]

From the "he said....she said" Gunslinger posted it sounds like more than just a business deal gone sour. Probably a civil court battle for a long time. They both deserve what they get...BIG LAWYER BILLS and lost crediibility.

[gunslinger]

Originally Posted by Rocky7

When the law says you can't own something because, say, you are a foreigner and to get around that you "put it in someone else's name" in order to own it, why is that not fraud in your books?

Would you lend your name to a scheme like that? How about for money?

The idea that the Outfitting racket should regulate itself is dumb.

Rocky when you go to buy a yukon outfit or bc or high dollar tags you have a backer, You borrow money off them like a bank and then you work out a deal to pay it back. Theres no scheme or fraud or anything.

[Rocky7]

Originally Posted by gunslinger

Rocky when you go to buy a yukon outfit or bc or high dollar tags you have a backer, You borrow money off them like a bank and then you work out a deal to pay it back. Theres no scheme or fraud or anything.

That might be fine and it might not. Depends on what the "deal" is.

Can you explain the part where you talked about owning tags/permits/allocations " but having to put them in an Albertan's name"........Why?

[drake]

Originally Posted by gunslinger

Rocky when you go to buy a yukon outfit or bc or high dollar tags you have a backer, You borrow money off them like a bank and then you work out a deal to pay it back. Theres no scheme or fraud or anything.

When i stand back and look at it that way i dont get my panties in as big a bunch. I am guilty of getting caught up in the sensationalism of the original post. My bad.

Doesn't sound like anything out of the ordinary regarding the way tags are bought and sold across Canada. Sounds like the issue is between Chad and his money man.

[SCO]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Doesn't sound like anything out of the ordinary regarding the way tags are bought and sold across Canada. Sounds like the issue is between Chad and his money man.

X2

The investor is likely trying to claim ownership as he loaned the money. No different then a bank trying to collect on a debt. You don't make your truck payment they come and pick up the truck. The only problem here is that they can not legally acquire the allocations unless they are a Canadian resident and have held a guide license in Alberta.