Walking with cocked gun

[Groundhogger]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

In a stand I'll have one down the pipe although even then I prefer not to have the bolt closed. Like others I consider a gun loaded or not loaded, I'll never rely on a safety while walking. In fact any of my rifles would suit me just as well with no safety as I never use them. I'd never let someone walk behind me with a firearm on safe and come to think of it I don't have any buddies who rely on safeties.

^this, 110%+++. In the interest of transparency, I don't hunt big game..nor do I ever find myself in a situation where complete silence is required. While I have lost shot opportunities on skittish grouse because of the time it took to chamber a round in a pump gun, I take that in stride. Poor gun handling habits have been a dividing line between me and at least one guy I used to hunt with, but I watch anyone I shoot with to make sure their sensibilities jive with my own. Anyone wishing to trust their lives with a $9 piece of stamped steel~go for it. I'm not one of those people, and I do reject the notion that safe gun handling/muzzle control justifies leaving a round chambered while you ramble around in the bush, on a trail, etc. There is no such thing as a "good" gun accident, and just because you've never had one..it doesn't mean you never will. The first may very well be the last.

In case anyone is curious, the issues I've seen with guys that don't cut it with me..but I've seen countless times;

1. Having a live round in the chamber, safety on (presumably?) and walking behind me, gun in the ready position

2. Having a live round in the chamber, safety on (presumably?) and sling-carrying in front of me

3. Taking a shot while hunting, and not clearing the round. (then walking with a closed bolt)

4. Taking a shot while hunting, clearly making a solid hit, then instinctually...clearing the empty, chambering another (for what?) and engaging the safety. (Or not..I always ask)

Maybe I'm a "stick in the mud"/over-cautious...but I do allot of shooting, and have given lots of instruction to new shooters. I believe there is no room for errors with firearms, and relying on a mechanical safety adds an element of risk that I honestly think is not required. Not judging anyone who feels differently, just throwing in my 2 cents. The guys I like shooting with most are like me~very safety minded, lots of communication about being unloaded/mag out/bolt open, etc. After reading the comments in this thread, I bet some people here would laugh if they overheard the way we do things...but so be it.

[6.5swedeforelk]

Originally Posted by Groundhogger

In the interest of transparency, I don't hunt big game...

...4. Taking a shot while hunting, clearly making a solid hit, then instinctually...clearing the empty, chambering another (for what?) and engaging the safety...

It's not necessary for you to state that you do not hunt big game.

No seasoned elk, moose, or bear hunter would agree with
unloading your gun just because you made a hit .

I recall in my first posting to the net where a guy dropped a bull,
unloaded, and was hi-fiving his buddies.
The elk got up, staggered away, and was not found.

[BuckCuller]

Gun safety is paramount.

https://youtu.be/FKSlm0D1uOk

[antlercarver]

As I read how many admit to carrying a loaded on safety gun, it takes it to a different level when I remember getting scoped.

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by antlercarver

As I read how many admit to carrying a loaded on safety gun, it takes it to a different level when I remember getting scoped.

When I see all the people admitting to racking rounds in the heat of the moment with cold hands it sends a shiver up my spine. Considering that some rifles need the safety off (and many others that admit to never using one) to cycle the action. Add to that the possibility of poor muzzle control when trying to get loaded up with an animal possibly escaping and it is down right scary.

I know, buck fever is a myth, young hunters never get that and having to fumble around loading a gun just makes things more challenging. Especially when one considers how many "accidents" we hear about while loading and unloading.

Elkhunter11 makes a prime example above when a hunter in his party had an accidental discharge when loading a rifle to fire at an antelope. Excited maybe, cold hands maybe, multi tasking??? I have read enough of his posts to know that he wouldn't hunt with someone he considered unsafe. Muzzle control saved the day but that is a weak excuse for an incident. He might well of injured himself from the unexpected recoil alone. So this experienced and presumed safe hunter has an incident while loading a rifle but we should be teaching young and inexperienced hunters that this is the way it should be done.

And when considering slip and fall type incidents, would one rather fall with a break action shotgun in the open position with shells in the pipe or one locked up solid with the safety on? It would almost be inevitable to take a tumble and still keep the gun open and if it did slam shut it would be hot without safety considering the mechanics of a lot of break open shotguns.

There is obviously two sides to this argument. People that scope you are idiots, be it loaded or presumed empty. I was taught, along with the majority of others, that all guns are to be handled as if loaded and not to point them at anything I wasn't going to shoot. Your attempts at making legitimate, safe and legal outdoorsmen look stupid is not going improve the gun handling practices of idiots.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by MK2750

When I see all the people admitting to racking rounds in the heat of the moment with cold hands it sends a shiver up my spine. Considering that some rifles need the safety off (and many others that admit to never using one) to cycle the action. Add to that the possibility of poor muzzle control when trying to get loaded up with an animal possibly escaping and it is down right scary.

I know, buck fever is a myth, young hunters never get that and having to fumble around loading a gun just makes things more challenging. Especially when one considers how many "accidents" we hear about while loading and unloading.

Elkhunter11 makes a prime example above when a hunter in his party had an accidental discharge when loading a rifle to fire at an antelope. Excited maybe, cold hands maybe, multi tasking??? I have read enough of his posts to know that he wouldn't hunt with someone he considered unsafe. Muzzle control saved the day but that is a weak excuse for an incident. He might well of injured himself from the unexpected recoil alone. So this experienced and presumed safe hunter has an incident while loading a rifle but we should be teaching young and inexperienced hunters that this is the way it should be done.

And when considering slip and fall type incidents, would one rather fall with a break action shotgun in the open position with shells in the pipe or one locked up solid with the safety on? It would almost be inevitable to take a tumble and still keep the gun open and if it did slam shut it would be hot without safety considering the mechanics of a lot of break open shotguns.

There is obviously two sides to this argument. People that scope you are idiots, be it loaded or presumed empty. I was taught, along with the majority of others, that all guns are to be handled as if loaded and not to point them at anything I wasn't going to shoot. Your attempts at making legitimate, safe and legal outdoorsmen look stupid is not going improve the gun handling practices of idiots.

Actually the odds of falling with a shotgun broken over the shoulder , and the shotshells not falling out of the chambers, and the action fully closing, and the trigger being struck are extremely remote, compared to the odds of falling with a closed chamber and the tang safety on the same gun being moved, and the trigger being struck. . I actually don't like tang safeties because if you trip, your hand can easily slide forward and move the safety to the fire position. As for my own SxS hunting shotguns, they have auto safeties that engage automatically when the action is closed. As such, the odds of everything happening that needs to happen in order to accidentally discharge one of my upland shotguns in a fall are pretty much non existent. I have seen people slip or trip, when carrying shotguns broken over the shoulder, and usually both shotshells fall out of the chambers, and the action does not close.

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Actually the odds of falling with a shotgun broken over the shoulder , and the shotshells not falling out of the chambers, and the action fully closing, and the trigger being struck are extremely remote, compared to the odds of falling with a closed chamber and the tang safety on the same gun being moved, and the trigger being struck. . I actually don't like tang safeties because if you trip, your hand can easily slide forward and move the safety to the fire position. As for my own SxS hunting shotguns, they have auto safeties that engage automatically when the action is closed. As such, the odds of everything happening that needs to happen in order to accidentally discharge one of my upland shotguns in a fall are pretty much non existent. I have seen people slip or trip, when carrying shotguns broken over the shoulder, and usually both shotshells fall out of the chambers, and the action does not close.

When you strip a shotgun the internal hammers are cocked and resting precariously on the mechanics of the trigger release. Many older sxs shotguns could be fired without touching the triggers or safety. This is especially true of poorly maintained guns. The only accidental discharge I have seen was on closing break action shotgun, auto safety no fingers on the trigger.

We had a FEG Monte Carlo that fired on closing. It was dragged through the salt and mud like a rented mule but it is a similar design to most European trigger groups and hammer assemblies.

I doubt very much that your well maintained guns will ever cause an issue. I don't imagine you will get excited and slam shut your shotguns or loose control of the muzzle, BUT for many novice hunters that are very excited when a bird flushes or takes an unexpected fall the results could be very different.

Do you think the accidental discharge you described earlier would have happened if the hunter had been walking with loaded gun rather than trying to load a gun in those circumstances?

[YYC338]

Originally Posted by antlercarver

As I read how many admit to carrying a loaded on safety gun, it takes it to a different level when I remember getting scoped.

Were you ever comfortable or OK being scoped? There should only be one level when that happens.

[Battle Rat]

Originally Posted by antlercarver

As I read how many admit to carrying a loaded on safety gun, it takes it to a different level when I remember getting scoped.

Are you suggesting that those are comfortable carrying a loaded chamber are somehow likely to scope someone?

[Bushrat]

Fake video. But yah it happens. My brother was hunting with 3 other friends when one of them was shot in the legs by another friend who tripped crossing some railroad tracks and his single shot 12ga shotgun which he swore wasn't cocked discharged, probably wasn't cocked because the guy was a pretty commonsense guy, but somehow the hammer got cocked or pulled back far enough and released sometime between when he started to fall and when the gun fired. The guy who got hit was about 30 yds away, hit in the legs with #6 birdshot. Fortunately he was able to walk out with about 40 pieces of shot in his lower legs.

[BuckCuller]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

Fake video. But yah it happens. My brother was hunting with 3 other friends when one of them was shot in the legs by another friend who tripped crossing some railroad tracks and his single shot 12ga shotgun which he swore wasn't cocked discharged, probably wasn't cocked because the guy was a pretty commonsense guy, but somehow the hammer got cocked or pulled back far enough and released sometime between when he started to fall and when the gun fired. The guy who got hit was about 30 yds away, hit in the legs with #6 birdshot. Fortunately he was able to walk out with about 40 pieces of shot in his lower legs.

It’s a very well done hunter safety educational video. That shows how an negligent discharge could change your life and others. Yes it was all acted out but done very well and has happened in real life.