Discrimination Runs High in Sask. Hunting Regs

[gevarm guy]

Anyone noticed that Saskatchewan went to a 7 day hunting week EXCEPT if your a Canadian resident. As an Alberta resident hunting there you don't deserve the same right to 7 days. Plus next year you need to draw just to hunt there and no its not because there is a shortage of deer. Its because resident hunters keep whining that you might shoot the big one that got away on them!! Some purely prejiduce decisions imo.

[mtylerb]

Originally Posted by gevarm guy

Anyone noticed that Saskatchewan went to a 7 day hunting week EXCEPT if your a Canadian resident. As an Alberta resident hunting there you don't deserve the same right to 7 days. Plus next year you need to draw just to hunt there and no its not because there is a shortage of deer. Its because resident hunters keep whining that you might shoot the big one that got away on them!! Some purely prejiduce decisions imo.

Three words should make you understand:

New Democratic Party (NDP)

Now do you understand?

[Redfrog]

Does Alberta use the same regulations for Residents and non residents as well, or do we have a different set of rules for those who do not live here?

[LongDraw]

Looks to me like Saskatchewan has it figured out!

[Mhunter51]

So, gevarm guy- your saying that as a non-resident you should get the same number of hunting days and be able to hunt where-ever you want in the province as a resident. You must have damaged something getting out from under that rock. Can I come over to Alberta ( or Manitoba ) and hunt ( by myself with no hunter-host ) were-ever and whenever I want. No and I shouldn't be allowed too. The regs are changing so non-residents have to put in for a draw to limite the numbers coming in to one or another particular area. Long over due. And YES it is because in a lot of areas the deer population has taken a sh**-kicking from the winters of 07-08 and 08-09. There are areas where you could litterally find a hundred deer in a logging clearing two winters ago that couldn't make it because of deep snow and no food. add to that wolves, outfitters, non-resident hunters, subsistance hunters and local resident hunters. They can not keep up. Again -- LONG OVERDUE !!!!!!!!

[Espo]

Originally Posted by LongDraw

Looks to me like Saskatchewan has it figured out!

I totally agree. It's time for Alberta to follow suit.
B.C. charges a daily rate for non-res fishing on certain waters. Alberta should do the same.

[blackpheasant]

Originally Posted by mtylerb

Three words should make you understand:

New Democratic Party (NDP)

Now do you understand?

MT NDP's got ousted by the "right of center" Saskatchewan Party in 2007....

[Mhunter51]

Gevarm Guy -- you have to go back and read the dates in the regs. White-tailed deer for Canadian residents in ALL zones from 56 to 69 including nine wildlife and provincial parks are open to canadian residents from Sept 1 to Oct 31 with a muzzle loader and Nov 1 to Nov 30 with a rifle and that includes Sundays -- Thats 7 days a week in case yoiu can't find that in the guide. Only the southern heavily populated ( with people that is ) zones are Nov 25 to 30. So don't tell people that all zones are 5 days long for Canadian residents when you can actually hunt for two months -- 7 days a week.

[Chet]

Sask certainly looks for opportunities to benefit from non-resident hunters and I can't really blame them. The guys that just come for a weekend or don't even overnight in sask may leave with a deer but don't leave many tourism dollars and that is the bottom line.

[mclean]

Sask. has a proper management plan in place concerning wildlife, i say good for them. Alberta should take a good look at how Sask. looks after their fish and wildlife do the same in this province.

[Kale 19]

I often wonder how much influence the outfitters in sask have on the outcome of the regs considering things such as the allowance of baiting and limiting canadian residents to hunting oppertunities vie draw system. As far as the impact Albertans have on the population of whitetail deer is concerned, we can all make assumptions however it would be up to the local bioligists to determine if it is having a negative effect. I for one doubt that it is as bad as some think (those typically being sask residents no offence) considering the only species that I am aware of that Canadian residents are eligable to hunt unless guided (and I stand to be corrected) are white tail deer. Also don't forget the revenue Canadian residents generate for the province of Sask and their ministry of environment when taken into account the price of a canadian deer tag alone not to mention food, fuel, accomidations, etc. I suspect it draws in more income than most people imagine and much of it goes into supporting wildlife and habitat consequently benefiting sask resident hunters and their oppertunities.
Personally, I think that there are key influential groups that lobby loud and hard enough in Sask to influence the final copy of their regs and I guess for that good on them because if thats the case what they are doing is working however I have heard and seen my share of verbal and physical hypocracy from Saskatchewan residents hunting in Alberta that I am completely frustrated when I as well as other Canadian residents are accused of taking advantage of an wonderful and legal oppertunity in Saskatchewan while contributing economicaly to their province.
I am not claiming to be an expert on the subject matter however I believe that considering sask residents have similar oppertunities in other provinces such as AB, we should have similar and or equal oppertunities over their and I hate to think it is the outfitters and resident hunters limiting our oppertunities. If there have been some hard winters and lean years, yes limit the hunting and allow populations to rebound but limit the resident hunters as well. Dont chastize albertains and others for enjoying an equal oppertunity in your province. Its only a line on a map and for albertains that live on that line, (I'm not one of them) you may be taking away half of their hunting teritory. How would you like that if you were in a similar position and Alberta was to do the same to you sask?

[gevarm guy]

CHET...."Sask certainly looks for opportunities to benefit from non-resident hunters and I can't really blame them. The guys that just come for a weekend or don't even overnight in sask may leave with a deer but don't leave many tourism dollars and that is the bottom line."

Actually Chet its not a revenue thing at all. As you can see...Being from Alberta I am allowed 1 whitetail tag at 150.00 all in. So all I can take home is 1 deer and hunt 6 days in central Sask. where i hunt.

But if I could hunt there for 21 days (as residents do) spending money everyday and nite, just think how much tourism money is now in the motels, restaurants, etc. And YES I can still only take home 1 deer.

P.S. In manitoba canadian resident deer hunters can hunt opening day and all season, same as residents.

[hal53]

can't really blame them for having their biologists actively manage their game and fish populations, instead of sending them out to push Grizzly's out of the way so they didn't have to record them. good on Sk. for managing properly so it is a resource for their residents. and there is some that can be left for non-res. as they think the herd can handle, think we should be lobbying Alberta SRD to take a more pro-active stance, rather than reactive...JMHO

[Mhunter51]

Kale, I think you are right in that the outfitters have quite a lot of clout when it comes to the regs but I beg to differ on the tourism dollars from Alta and Manitoba hunters. I have hunted a lot on both sides of the province and I se a lot of Canadian non-residents. I'm sure were all familiar with the amount of ex-sask people in Alberta and what I see is most stay with friends or relatives here. They eat at the house, stay at the house and drive together to the hunting area. Of course there are exceptions, but the motels I see have American or Quebec people. As far as Sask residents hunting in Alberta, and I may be way off here, but I thought we had to have a host to hunt there. I agree its only a line but it is another province and we have been cut back also. In years past there was oportunity to get three deer between either sex and antlerless tags. Now it is one. I'm not saying at all that Albertans should not be allowed here, just that everyone must take stewardship of the lessened population.

[greylynx]

Originally Posted by hal53

can't really blame them for having their biologists actively manage their game and fish populations, instead of sending them out to push Grizzly's out of the way so they didn't have to record them. good on Sk. for managing properly so it is a resource for their residents. and there is some that can be left for non-res. as they think the herd can handle, think we should be lobbying Alberta SRD to take a more pro-active stance, rather than reactive...JMHO

I am sorry to disappoint you Hal, but government biologists spend most of their time trying to appease the politicians. I hate to say this, but a lot of time being a government biologist is spent as a fart catcher, and trying to CYA, when you know what is really going on.
That juicy government pension or buyout seems to be what motivates a lot of guys to just stay and follow orders from above, so to speak.
If you say one wrong word to the wrong government official or the media you are removed, so to say.
Nice work when your in the field though.
But what do I really know about being a government biologist

[hal53]

Originally Posted by greylynx

I am sorry to disappoint you Hal, but government biologists spend most of their time trying to appease the politicians. I hate to say this, but a lot of time being a government biologist is spent as a fart catcher, and trying to CYA, when you know what is really going on.
That juicy pension or buyout seems to be what motivates a lot of guys.
If you say one wrong word to the wrong government official or the media you are removed, so to say.
Nice work when your in the field though.
But what do I really know about being a government biologist

sorry, was being facetious...trying to say they were actively managing , while our guys "fiddled while Rome burned". my apologies

[greylynx]

Originally Posted by hal53

sorry, was being facetious...trying to say they were actively managing , while our guys "fiddled while Rome burned". my apologies

No need to apologize Hal

I work in private industry now, where if there are no results from your work you don't eat.

Very different from working for the government.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by greylynx

No need to apologize Hal

I work in private industry now, where if there are no results from your work you don't eat.

Very different from working for the government.

NP, I have ran my own company for almost 10 yrs. the Minister of Finance kinda raises her eyebrows if it's more than 3-4 days with nothing on the horizon...LOL!

[Kale 19]

Originally Posted by Mhunter51

Kale, I think you are right in that the outfitters have quite a lot of clout when it comes to the regs but I beg to differ on the tourism dollars from Alta and Manitoba hunters. I have hunted a lot on both sides of the province and I se a lot of Canadian non-residents. I'm sure were all familiar with the amount of ex-sask people in Alberta and what I see is most stay with friends or relatives here. They eat at the house, stay at the house and drive together to the hunting area. Of course there are exceptions, but the motels I see have American or Quebec people. As far as Sask residents hunting in Alberta, and I may be way off here, but I thought we had to have a host to hunt there. I agree its only a line but it is another province and we have been cut back also. In years past there was oportunity to get three deer between either sex and antlerless tags. Now it is one. I'm not saying at all that Albertans should not be allowed here, just that everyone must take stewardship of the lessened population.

I agree with a lot of what you said Mhunter perticularily your last comment in that everyone must take stewartship of the lessened population. I am fully aware of the population decreases throughout the province and have witnessed it first hand. I am also aware of the reduced # of tags to resident hunters but it begs the question, "should 3 tags per resident ever have been made available and did that play any role in the population reduction"? It is likely that the hard winters had more of an impact, but bottom line and I am not a biologist for the record, is that Sask has a substancialy lesser population density than AB and vast amounts of unoccupied land, more so than AB. Add on top of that premium wildlife habitat throughout the province and it should all add up to still more animals than AB with fewer hunters even with all the non-residents hunting over there.
I'm sure as you mentioned many AB residents take advantage of cheap or free accomodations but who are we to judge. Given the oppertunity I would also capitalize on saving money and I think I can safely speak for many others in saying most would as well, regardless of which province your from. My frustration is not Sask's attempt to manage a quality hunting destination, in fact I commend the sask govt for it, but rather the fact that instead of looking for alternative means to re-establish populations by finding solutions within the province, the Sask govt hits the easy button while serving its hunting population interests, and limits an already limited oppertunity to everone outside to the province in what appear to me to be a good way to win votes considering the opinions of Sask residents and outfitters on the topic of canadian residents hunting in sask, that I have been exposed to. That was not meant to be a backhanded malliscious statement but simply an opinion I have developed based on what I have been told, read, and heard.
I have spent the last 7 days of November for the last 5 years in sask chasing whitetails and have spent more money over there than I'd care to talk about just to shoot 1 decent buck lol. Some years I don't shoot one at all. I love hunting in both AB and Sask and am fortunate that I can. More restrictions on when I can hunt there do not sit too well with me considering the meager 7 days I have to spend there as is, and yes, I am aware there is extended oppertunity in many of the provincial forests, but I don't hunt there.
It is my thought that the canadian resident draw system was established in sask for 2 reasons.
1) Serve the hunting and outfitting population interests
2) Attract voters
The second being a subsequent result of point 1.
It is my intention to continue to spend my time and money at the end of November every year in Sask as long as I have the opportunity too. Its my hope that I am not restricted by self-serving politicians, resident hunters, outfitters (they know who they are), and bureaucracy but rather, if necessary, by meaningful science and a lack of other options.

[mtylerb]

Originally Posted by blackpheasant

MT NDP's got ousted by the "right of center" Saskatchewan Party in 2007....

I stand corrected. I don't know what map I was last looking at, but I was sure it was a lot of yellow.

[Mhunter51]

Kale, I think you hit it right on the money. There should never have been a three deer season, particularily in the forest zones. Our wildlife people in the supposed " know " have a reputation of being reactive instead of being proactive. They did the same thing in zones 9 and 10 around Cabri with Mule Deer a number of years ago. They received some crop and hay damage complaints and put in a season for a total of four mule deer per person with antlered and 3 antlerless tags. People got three antlerless and guess which ones the harvested -- the large mature does. That zone was decimated of mature fawn producing does and still has not rebounded. In the northern zones that allow non-resident guided American hunters they allowed them to harvest two whitetail bucks. They would shoot the first 130 ish class deer that showed itself ( just to return home with some trophy ) and then site for the rest of the week waiting for a larger deer. A guided hunt should have never been for two deer. Kale, I wish you good hunting and luck in the november hunt.

[ishootbambi]

saskatchewan manages much of their big game with trophy size animals in mind. alberta manages most of the province for hunter opportunity with little focus on trophy quality. i guess it depends which camp you are in which way is better. the move to limit can residents has much more to do with outspoken residents complaining about trophy quality and not so much to do with hunter numbers and the size of the herd. there will be a lot of small towns that will feel the economic pinch from a reduction in touring hunters. the loudest complaints came from the hunsond bay areas and meadow lake areas where acces to the forest is basically one road and they turn into superhighways during the week canadians are allowed. changes are likely, and it wont be for the better of the herd, or the province as a whole....though it will be a relief to the small areas mentioned. once the changes are in place, go ask hotels and gas stations in those 2 towns what they think. it will hurt a lot of small towns, but those 2 will be the hardest hit by far.

[cap]

I have been told there is a( Bigger type) White in the Mossbank area I will be bird hunting there soon sure would be nice to get a look at him.Quite a few years back we were hunting Deer in Saskatchewan and we were passed by two pickup's with guys standing in the box with guns.They were all talking but I can't tell you what they were saying only that their plates were not from a Western Province

[Kale 19]

Originally Posted by Mhunter51

Kale, I think you hit it right on the money. There should never have been a three deer season, particularily in the forest zones. Our wildlife people in the supposed " know " have a reputation of being reactive instead of being proactive. They did the same thing in zones 9 and 10 around Cabri with Mule Deer a number of years ago. They received some crop and hay damage complaints and put in a season for a total of four mule deer per person with antlered and 3 antlerless tags. People got three antlerless and guess which ones the harvested -- the large mature does. That zone was decimated of mature fawn producing does and still has not rebounded. In the northern zones that allow non-resident guided American hunters they allowed them to harvest two whitetail bucks. They would shoot the first 130 ish class deer that showed itself ( just to return home with some trophy ) and then site for the rest of the week waiting for a larger deer. A guided hunt should have never been for two deer. Kale, I wish you good hunting and luck in the november hunt.

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

saskatchewan manages much of their big game with trophy size animals in mind. alberta manages most of the province for hunter opportunity with little focus on trophy quality. i guess it depends which camp you are in which way is better. the move to limit can residents has much more to do with outspoken residents complaining about trophy quality and not so much to do with hunter numbers and the size of the herd. there will be a lot of small towns that will feel the economic pinch from a reduction in touring hunters. the loudest complaints came from the hunsond bay areas and meadow lake areas where acces to the forest is basically one road and they turn into superhighways during the week canadians are allowed. changes are likely, and it wont be for the better of the herd, or the province as a whole....though it will be a relief to the small areas mentioned. once the changes are in place, go ask hotels and gas stations in those 2 towns what they think. it will hurt a lot of small towns, but those 2 will be the hardest hit by far.

Completely agree with what both of you had to say. I hope both the Saskatchewan and Alberta govt realize that there is much to benifit and learn from each other and their outdoorsman and ultimatly find a way to maintain and ensure quality oppertunities for everyone who wants to enjoy this resource in a thouroughly thought out, manner and not by listening to the loudest lobby group.
Cheers and best of luck this season to you as well.

[rockymountaintrapper]

Originally Posted by mclean

Sask. has a proper management plan in place concerning wildlife, i say good for them. Alberta should take a good look at how Sask. looks after their fish and wildlife do the same in this province.

alberta most definitely has to look to saskatchewan concerning , " "proper "wildlifemanagement.it is absolutely great to have fenced huntfarms yes you can even shoot bighornsheep without even seeing or climing a mountain.and of course gamefarms and baited deerhunts have "absolutely nothing "to do with chronicwasteingdisease !way to look after your wildlife saskatchewan ! I for myself sure hope alberta is smarter then that.

[harv3589]

Originally Posted by mclean

Sask. has a proper management plan in place concerning wildlife, i say good for them. Alberta should take a good look at how Sask. looks after their fish and wildlife do the same in this province.

I have been saying that for along time...if its on a draw, it's only available to Alberta residents...no guiding for that species as well.

The game farming side though should be shut down completely however.

[Espo]

Originally Posted by harv3589

I have been saying that for along time...if its on a draw, it's only available to Alberta residents...no guiding for that species as well.

The game farming side though should be shut down completely however.

harv, what your saying makes way to much sense. the govt would never go for it.

[Floppy]

Originally Posted by Mhunter51

So, gevarm guy- your saying that as a non-resident you should get the same number of hunting days and be able to hunt where-ever you want in the province as a resident. You must have damaged something getting out from under that rock. Can I come over to Alberta ( or Manitoba ) and hunt ( by myself with no hunter-host ) were-ever and whenever I want. No and I shouldn't be allowed too. The regs are changing so non-residents have to put in for a draw to limite the numbers coming in to one or another particular area. Long over due. And YES it is because in a lot of areas the deer population has taken a sh**-kicking from the winters of 07-08 and 08-09. There are areas where you could litterally find a hundred deer in a logging clearing two winters ago that couldn't make it because of deep snow and no food. add to that wolves, outfitters, non-resident hunters, subsistance hunters and local resident hunters. They can not keep up. Again -- LONG OVERDUE !!!!!!!!

you took the words right out of my mouth

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by gevarm guy

Anyone noticed that Saskatchewan went to a 7 day hunting week EXCEPT if your a Canadian resident. As an Alberta resident hunting there you don't deserve the same right to 7 days. Plus next year you need to draw just to hunt there and no its not because there is a shortage of deer. Its because resident hunters keep whining that you might shoot the big one that got away on them!! Some purely prejiduce decisions imo.

I have no problem with that. It's their province and game, they can do anything they want with it, just like we can if we choose.

Now if you want the same regulation and access rights across the country I'm sure we could lobby the Federal Government to take over legal jurisdiction..... ahhhh, I thought not. LOL

[dgl1948]

The reason for putting a draw for out of province hunters is to properly manage game populations. I live in a zone on the Man/Sask border. Just about every hunter from Man. stops and hunts in the first zone they come to on the border. This puts far to much presure on these zones. How can you manage the harvest if you have no control on the number of hunters? I am sure this goes for most coming from Alberta as well. This leave a lot of zones that could use more hunters. By going to a draw there will still be lots of oportunity to hunt but some may have to travel into central zones. Another problem with non resident hunters is that they all come to shoot a buck. This seems to be the norm for local hunters as well. In order to off set this some zones offer one or two doe tags to help balance the population. One of the greatest threats to population numbers here is that there is a lot less habitat to support the populations. trees are getting harder to find and draining to gain acres has seen dramatic increases in the last few years. Farmland zones do not have the populations they had at one time. The forest fringe zones have been real good untill the last couple of winters and they have been devostated with the amount of snow that they had.

I am sure you will see non resident controls in other provinces as populations decrease or hunters increase as well. I am a firm believer that you cannot stockpile wildlife. There are years when the surplus increases and the hunters coming across borders should increase as well but the oposite is true as well. One thing for sure is the farmland zones will never see the populations they have had in the past.