Damit, how does this happen ?

[elkhunter11]

Imagine the $$$$$$$$ when the lawyers are done with the civil suits. The guy that pulled the trigger will be destroyed, and that at least is a little justice served.

Oh my sorry sorry sorry would not cut it I am afraid.

I can guarantee if I was shot by some trigger happy moron I would be going for blood.

Absolutely, if our legal system refuses to deal harshly with those individuals that kill or cripple others through negligence, then hopefully they will be punished through civil action. This type of irresponsible behaviour needs to be stopped, and if changing people's behaviour comes down to the fear of being ruined by a civil suit, so be it.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by a little redneck

Should be a requirement to carry bino's when hunting with a rifle.

Not sure that would have helped. I'm assuming ths shooter was looking through a scope when he took the shot so saw a magnified image.... that is if the shot was direct and intentional.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

If he had any kind of insurance he'll be covered as long as the shooting is ruled accidental.

Yes, up to $X, if and only then the insurance company does not deny his claim, then it will bu sue, seize, garnishee.

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Absolutely, if our legal system refuses to deal harshly with those individuals that kill or cripple others through negligence, then hopefully they will be punished through civil action. This type of irresponsible behaviour needs to be stopped, and if changing people's behaviour comes down to the fear of being ruined by a civil suit, so be it.

Really not much punishment or fear if you are well insured.

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

Yes, up to $X, if and only then the insurance company does not deny his claim, then it will bu sue, seize, garnishee.

You are a fool not to carry 2 million liability these days....Canadian courts are typically stingy in awarding damages.....if it was an accident they can't deny the claim. Maybe in America but not in Canada...sorry.

[elkhunter11]

Really not much punishment or fear if you are well insured.

It depends on how much liability you have, and how much loss that the person or his family loses by him being crippled or killed. A long career of lost wages for a person earning a good wage, can easily total several million dollars.

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

It depends on how much liability you have, and how much loss that the person or his family loses by him being crippled or killed. A long career of lost wages for a person earning a good wage, can easily total several million dollars.

As I said, you're a fool not to carry two million.....that'll pretty much cover you no matter how stupid you are. Not arguing the guy doesn't deserve punishment...it's just a fact that he likely won't feel any financial pain. This isn't America. It will end up being a fight between two insurance companies...not two individuals.

[ice]

Wow that would be brutal, people just don't think anymore

[hillbillyreefer]

Originally Posted by score

I didn't know this or ever even think about it before, but what is the rational behind this law or rule? And, not directed to you hillbillyreefer, this incident has absolutely nothing to do with target ident., a mistake, or whatever else has been said; it has everything to do with plain stupidity.

I'll go with stupidity also.

Starting June 15, Albertans who own or want body armour need a legitimate reason under the Body Armour Control Act, or a permit from the Solicitor General and Public Security office.


From this lengthy thread:
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/archi.../t-125667.html

[couleefolk]

don't see anyone concerned that as long as you pay your fee, you can pretty much have a pal. our local wildlife federation doesn't do anything when you tell them people are passing the course by pulling a number from a hat. some guys are saying they got their pal, hunter safety, and boating course in less than 4 hours, and then you find out they don't actually know anything, and these are the guys that will be out boating and shooting with no idea what they are doing. i give up, and pray that i'm not going to get hurt by one of these cheaters. and that is how this happens, and as more people slip through this system, there will be more accidents, and soon the anti's have all they need. the end.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by MoFugger21

Not attempting to be rude, but if the "mistook the victim for a buffalo" thing is actually true.... How big and hairy does the victim have to be to be mistaken for a buffalo?

Well maybe he looked bigger in the scope
We've all heard that before.

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by couleefolk

don't see anyone concerned that as long as you pay your fee, you can pretty much have a pal. our local wildlife federation doesn't do anything when you tell them people are passing the course by pulling a number from a hat. some guys are saying they got their pal, hunter safety, and boating course in less than 4 hours, and then you find out they don't actually know anything, and these are the guys that will be out boating and shooting with no idea what they are doing. i give up, and pray that i'm not going to get hurt by one of these cheaters. and that is how this happens, and as more people slip through this system, there will be more accidents, and soon the anti's have all they need. the end.

Whether they cheat or not to get their licence is moot. People who cheat to get licenced can be some of the most responsible hunters , boaters, drivers out there. You can legislate all the rules, permits, training, licences, tests etc. People will pass them, stupid people with no common sense will pass them. Drivers licences for example, you can give people driver training, graduated licences, only certain hours they are allowed to drive, make them pass a written test, then a practical test and then give them their licence. With some individuals everything they learned goes out the window, they abandon everything they learned and drive like total idiots. It's the same with hunting/firearms licences, you could make them take a four year university graduate degree in hunter/firearm safety and they may graduate in the top percentile, thing is a certain portion of them will turn into complete idiots when they get out in the woods with a gun or behind the wheel of an automobile.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

As I said, you're a fool not to carry two million.....that'll pretty much cover you no matter how stupid you are. Not arguing the guy doesn't deserve punishment...it's just a fact that he likely won't feel any financial pain. This isn't America. It will end up being a fight between two insurance companies...not two individuals.

I have to step in here, I not only collect for insurance companies, but have also done A/R work for law offices, and of course have gone to court.
If the plaintiff feels that the amount offered is not enough, he absolutely has the right to sue the defendant in civil court. Many hundreds of thousands, or even millions of dollars has been decided in chambers.

I have first hand knowledge of this, I was involved in one in may of this year.

Courts award very little for soft tissue injury, but when injuries include spinal, brain, etc you can start adding zeros.

[brownbomber]

Originally Posted by Rocky7

Anybody arguing that ATV's need to be blaze orange, yet?

Lol. Can't idiot proof everything

[Rocky7]

This is just another anecdote that helps explain why I don't hunt around other hunters unless I know them. It's not a guarantee, but it's sure more relaxing. Besides the drinkers and the goofs, there's a lot of young and/or new hunters that just never had the teachers I did.

[a little redneck]

Originally Posted by Rocky7

Anybody arguing that ATV's need to be blaze orange, yet?

Was thinking a yellow or orange side X side may not be such a bad thing! Maybe if it was camo they wouldn't see you?

[score]

While it is good to see new people showing interest in hunting, no courses or I think doing ones best to be safety conscious, can ever really replace having been started out very young. Maybe it boils down to personality. Hunting is an extremely exciting fast paced sport. Things often happen in the blink of an eye and if one doesn't have their wits about them, accidents can happen. For those that began as youngsters it progresses to a level of safety maturity. In other words, it has become and is natural. Some latter starters can handle it but those that had safety constantly driven into them, no longer need to think about it, they just do it by reacting in a safe manner always. There doesn't seem to be the constant thinking of how it's done. It's second nature I guess is what I'm trying to say. Not all, but I believe this is the case with most. Plain stupidity, intoxication, carelessness, etc., is another discussion. It is hard to put into words and understand but it is IMO a way of being rather than a way of doing.

[uglyelk]

Originally Posted by hillbillyreefer

It is illegal in BC and AB to wear body armour while hunting.

http://www.qp.alberta.ca/documents/Acts/B04P8.pdf

Read the act, page 3, under exemption # 4F anyone with a PAL can own and use it.

[score]

Originally Posted by uglyelk

http://www.qp.alberta.ca/documents/Acts/B04P8.pdf

Read the act, page 3, under exemption # 4F anyone with a PAL can own and use it.

Thanks for the info. Until it was mentioned here I had never given it any thought at all. Was just curious is all. Personally I probably wouldn't wear it. It is heavy I would imagine. Would it even help? Again tho., thanks for that.

[score]

To add to my post a few back. When these horrible events take place (and it does seem like there are more and more although I have no stats to provide the #'s historically to today) we naturally search for explanations as to why. How can a guy mistake another guy on a quad for a bison? There are the repeating themes of carelessness, lack of education, etc., etc. (foggy conditions are irrelevent but can fall somewhere under carelessness). Just to point out here, mistakes, true unavoidable mistakes do take place and it can happen to anyone. Our job whether hunting or driving or using a power tool or trimming meat with a sharp knife is to do all we can attempting to minimize the risk. Experience is a requirement. Learning from close calls adds to experience and provides a great opportunity to teach. Regardless, honest accidents and mistakes take place. This is something that can be talked about in length so I'll get to what I wanted to say in the first place. Intoxication! Whatever kind, is the only thing that springs to mind when wondering how? It clearly explains how these seemingly unimaginable things take place. Drinking while hunting IMO takes place far more than we may even begin to fathom. Beer boxes and bottles litter the road side in the city and the country. To me, it is of course a societal epidemic and of epidemic purportions during hunting. Now, what does that mean? No the vast majority of hunters are not impaired. However, any percentage, and I believe it to be higher than we would think, any percentage is too high. One? One death? Too high. Just as hunting related deaths are low when compared to the number of hunters, hunting related deaths traced to intoxication is also low. Chances are a plastered guy with a gun will do nothing and if anything probably just fall asleep on a log or in his truck, or perhaps at worst shoot himself. So, to me when looking for the answers to how in the world can these things take place, yanking the trigger of a loaded gun pointed at sound, movement, or quad is a result of being very drunk. All other explainations just don't seem to cut it for me.

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

I have to step in here, I not only collect for insurance companies, but have also done A/R work for law offices, and of course have gone to court.
If the plaintiff feels that the amount offered is not enough, he absolutely has the right to sue the defendant in civil court. Many hundreds of thousands, or even millions of dollars has been decided in chambers.

I have first hand knowledge of this, I was involved in one in may of this year.

Courts award very little for soft tissue injury, but when injuries include spinal, brain, etc you can start adding zeros.

Sure it can happen but it rarely does. My only point is that there likely is no financial repercussions for a shooter in this incident. It's hardly a deterrant anyhow. Common sense on the hand........

[score]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Sure it can happen but it rarely does. My only point is that there likely is no financial repercussions for a shooter in this incident. It's hardly a deterrant anyhow. Common sense on the hand........

Common sense it would seem is a lacking commodity today in regards to everything. It can't be taught or learned. It may come from experience if one is paying attention to life day by day. It may be an innate quality some are born with, or at least born with the capacity to quickly adopt. Experience would then rapidly compound it to a state of being. IMO, common sense is something one has or doesn't. There are no degrees of it. I think heavy penalties can be a deterrant. They would be very difficult to prosecute though and to the victim they would of course be of no consequence. It would depend on the circumstances surrounding the case. If proven to be a result of negligence extremely high penalties should be a given. I do understand all of the complications. Gosh, we are not even close to where we should be as a society in terms of a legal system that makes any kind of sense or is even functional. I suppose that laws and punishment won't prevent much. Criminals couldn't care less. But, maybe if intervention by the legal system were to save one life, laws may be worth it. Before anyone jumps up to say we don't need more laws, I agree. Enforcement of laws is lacking but I don't see how harsher laws regarding this would impede law abiding hunters. The question is would they be effective. I don't pretend to know how these things can be prevented and they can't be entirely. Something needs to be done however because there does seem to be an increase of these sad and terrible events. We are discussing hunting here of course, but as we all are aware, our legal system is a joke in all regards. At times such as this, we should be looking for answers. They must exist. We must at least try.

[dumoulin]

Originally Posted by .257Weatherby

Man Shot in Early Morning Hunting Accident .

A Delta man is in serious, but not life threatening condition after an early morning hunting accidnet. Fort St. John RCMP received a call at 8:30 this morning from the Pink Mountain Recreational Area when the 56 year old was shot in the knee while sitting on his ATV.

There was poor visibility in the area, and a man from the Vancouver Island area mistook the victim for a buffalo. The victim was rushed to Fort St. John hospital and later transported to Grande Prairie for further treatment.

The Fort St. John RCMP are currently investigating the incident.

cjdccountry.com/News/Story.aspx?ID=1792216

The guy on the atv is a well kown local farmer in the small community of Delta BC.
I certainly hope it was not an intentional shooting while hunting for those buffaloes.
FFS, has it come to wearing body armor now while hunting?
Rob

Low IQ

[couleefolk]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

Whether they cheat or not to get their licence is moot. People who cheat to get licenced can be some of the most responsible hunters , boaters, drivers out there. You can legislate all the rules, permits, training, licences, tests etc. People will pass them, stupid people with no common sense will pass them. Drivers licences for example, you can give people driver training, graduated licences, only certain hours they are allowed to drive, make them pass a written test, then a practical test and then give them their licence. With some individuals everything they learned goes out the window, they abandon everything they learned and drive like total idiots. It's the same with hunting/firearms licences, you could make them take a four year university graduate degree in hunter/firearm safety and they may graduate in the top percentile, thing is a certain portion of them will turn into complete idiots when they get out in the woods with a gun or behind the wheel of an automobile.

the problem is that you won't get anywhere trying to use statistics to get rid of people driving, but you get some anti's claiming guns hurt someone, and soon we will all be relieved of our firearms. our firearms licenses are one way of trying to make sure my kids will have the right to own firearms because well educated people make fewer mistakes then green horns that have no clue. for the few cheaters that are ok to pass it may be fine, but a person has to realize that sometimes the big picture is to easily overlooked, and that is that the people that make the biggest mistakes because the system has failed them and others, are the ones that will bring down our firearm ownership as we know it. the other downfall is that firearm owners think it will never happen here in Canada that we will loose our firearms.