Dog Chasing Deer

[jesse34567]

guys lets be serious don't bring your dogs big game hunting unless you know you have full control


also, killing a human who has shot your dog is insane

[elkhunter11]

That of course would depend on the courts system, but one can only hope, as I have heard of people losing this over lesser crimes.

Don't hold your breath,that would be a very faint hope.The police aren't going to spend a lot of time or money trying to solve a dog shooting.

The best solution is to keep your dog safe,by not letting your dog run loose.

I have never shot a dog,and I hope that I never have to.

guys lets be serious don't bring your dogs big game hunting unless you know you have full control

Unless you are hunting cougar,it would be illegal.

[roughneckin]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

You would be lucky to find out who shot your dog,let alone get a criminal conviction.The police aren't going to spend a lot of time or money trying to solve a dog shooting.Your hunting privileges get suspended if you violate the wildlife act,how is killing a dog a wildlife act violation?As for your PAL, good luck getting that suspended or revoked for killing a dog.It wasn't that long ago that a Lac La Biche woman was granted a PAL by the courts,even though she had a record of assault and uttering death threats.Our so called justice system is very lenient with murders and drug dealers,so I would not count on a harsh sentence for shooting a dog that was illegally chasing wildlife.And once again,first you have to prove who shot your dog.

I have a pretty good grasp on this as one of my distant uncles that we used to hang out with quite a bit did this but it involved not harassment of animals but his children. The neighbor's dogs used to come over and growl at the kids, he gave them a few phone calls but the dogs continued to do this.
Finally he had enough, took the 2 dogs by the scruff of the neck, threw them in his truck and drove them about 3miles into the bush and shot them both so his children did not have to witness it. He later brought them back, dropped them off at the neighbor's farm yard and told him to keep his dogs away from his kids.
Now to most people here this would seem like a logical way to handle it as stated before and this is not some random deer, this was his children. He received 2 yrs of parole, a whole bunch of public community service, lost his rifles for 5yrs and got a criminal record so he could not cross any borders. He also was limited to what jobs he could do because of said criminal record.
But would he do it again, yes in a heart beat. But if it was a deer that the dog was chasing, he would have left it be, it wasn't hurting him or his family.
Yes I agree you would have a hard time finding out who shot your dog, but there is a good chance too that if it was shot like that then you would assume that a wolf got it or it ran away which would be a lot easier on a family than finding out it was shot because someone decided to take the law into his own hands.

[uglyelk]

I've always been suprised by the different out looks on hunting from region to region as I've travelled across this great nation. It appears our hunting regulations and our perceptions of what is right and wrong is as varied as our liquor laws from province to province.

When I lived in NS I ran into lots of hunters who claimed they would shoot any dog they found in the bush in deer season. Yet many of them seemed very happy to break there hunting laws and jack deer at night.

This was strange to me as when I hunted in Ontario jacking deer was the lowest thing a man could do....but every one hunted with dogs.

From the Ontario Regs:

Dogs

You must license any dogs to be used to hunt deer, moose or
bear. There is no limit on the number of dogs that may be
licensed and used. Dogs may not run at large in an area
inhabited by deer, moose, elk or bear during the closed season.

So I was kind of blown away when my Bluenose buddies started telling me of shooting dogs and shinning lights. Different strokes for different folks I supose.

I've hunted with dogs, to be honest they are better at pushing bush than we are! But if your going to hunt with dogs be prepared to shot a moving target, it ain't tree stand hunting!

I suspect the hunting with hounds goes back to Scotland. As our nation was settled each region adapted the traditions of their former nation to their new home. I lived in an area of Ontario settled by Ulster Scots so not surprising the hounds were part of the hunt. You need a fair sized hunt camp to work with dogs.

Shoot my dog, steal or damage my property, I suspect you will meet with violence at my hand. Doesn't matter if you commit your foul dead in my back yard or in the bush, don't mess with what's mine! Now that is not internet tough guys talking, that's just a fact of life.

If you mess with peoples property be prepared for the repercussions. I'm sure most people would expected to get a **** kicking if they keyed someones car in front of them. Why would you expect a dog owner to turn a blind eye to your dispatching his dog?

[elkhunter11]

Finally he had enough, took the 2 dogs by the scruff of the neck, threw them in his truck and drove them about 3miles into the bush and shot them both so his children did not have to witness it. He later brought them back, dropped them off at the neighbor's farm yard and told him to keep his dogs away from his kids.

Bringing the carcasses back to the owner wasn't very smart now was it?

He received 2 yrs of parole, a whole bunch of public community service, lost his rifles for 5yrs and got a criminal record so he could not cross any borders. He also was limited to what jobs he could do because of said criminal record.

What exactly was he convicted of?By confronting the neighbor with the dead carcasses,he may may very well have been found guilty of threatening the dogs owner especially if he still had the firearm with him.That is a much more serious crime than shooting a dog.

[roughneckin]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Bringing the carcasses back to the owner wasn't very smart now was it

What was he convicted of?By confronting the neighbor with the dead carcasses,he may may very well have been found guilty of threatening the dogs owner especially if he still had the firearm with him.That is a much more serious crime than shooting a dog.

Nope might not have been too smart, but it worked, he never had to worry about it happening again. And that is what he was striving for.

He had taken the gun home and drove back to the neighbours and dropped off them when he wasn't home. He then left a nice pleasant voicemail on his answering machine to tell him who it was and that the 3 warnings before he considered very nice.

That is besides the point though, he was defending his own children and he got nailed pretty good, but he would never bother the dogs for just chasing deer, just not worth it to take away someone's house pet.

[elkhunter11]

Nope might not have been too smart, but it worked, he never had to worry about it happening again. And that is what he was striving for.

He had taken the gun home and drove back to the neighbours and dropped off them when he wasn't home. He then left a nice pleasant voicemail on his answering machine to tell him who it was and that the 3 warnings before he considered very nice.

That is besides the point though, he was defending his own children and he got nailed pretty good, but he would never bother the dogs for just chasing deer, just not worth it to take away someone's house pet.

So what exactly was he convicted of?It could make a huge difference in the sentence that he received,and there may be a lot more to the story than simply shooting two dogs.

[roughneckin]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So what exactly was he convicted of?It could make a huge difference in the sentence that he received.

He was convicted on about 5 different things, which i can not recall the exact names of them now as it was over 15yrs ago, but one of the major ones had to do with him taking the animals in his truck and then disposing of them, they said if he had done it right in his yard it would have been a bit less harsh, but he still would have caught the short end of the stick. He mentioned that he did not want his children to have to go through the trauma as they were only 5 and 7.

You are not quite getting the point that I am trying to get out. He found out that you can not take the law into your own hands even if you are defending your life or your children's lives. Is a deer worth you having further issues in life if you are caught? People poach deer, if you see them, do you not call RAP or do you take the law into your own hands?

[elkhunter11]

He was convicted on about 5 different things,

As I posted previously,it sounds like more than a case of simply shooting two dogs.

they said if he had done it right in his yard it would have been a bit less harsh, but he still would have caught the short end of the stick.

If he had killed the dogs in his own yard while they were threatening the children,and then called the police,he could likely have avoided any charges being laid at all.Who would convict someone for shooting dogs that were threatening his children on his own property.

He found out that you can not take the law into your own hands even if you are defending your life or your children's lives.

But since the dogs let him grab them by the neck and load them into his truck without him being bitten,he would have a hard time proving that the dogs were a threat to anyone.And since he hauled them away,they obviously weren't a threat to the children when he shot them.
It sounds like he made it very easy for the police by destroying any alibi that he might have had,while creating a case against himself.

[roughneckin]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

As I posted previously,it sounds like more than a case of simply shooting two dogs.



If he had killed the dogs in his own yard while they were threatening the children,and then called the police,he could likely have avoided any charges being laid at all.Who would convict someone for shooting dogs that were threatening his children on his own property.



But since the dogs let him grab them by the neck and load them into his truck without him being bitten,he would have a hard time proving that the dogs were a threat to anyone.And since he hauled them away,they obviously weren't a threat to the children when he shot them.
It sounds like he made it very easy for the police by creating a case against himself.

So like I was trying to say before, even if you shoot my dog when it was in the process of chasing wildlife and you are not a F&W officer/guardian, you will be charged, just like he was...are you ready to deal with the consequences over a deer?
You still have not made a good argument for killing a dog chasing deer.

[roughneckin]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

If he had killed the dogs in his own yard while they were threatening the children,and then called the police,he could likely have avoided any charges being laid at all.Who would convict someone for shooting dogs that were threatening his children on his own property.

Actually since he lived just inside of the village limits, he would have been charged with discharging a gun in the limits of a town. He thought that this would be worse but was wrong.

[moose6]

My god, it's a deer, lets make a new rule that we all have to drive really slow so we don't scare the overpopulated deer off the road which would make them sweat.

To all of those quoting the rules and are actually prepared to shoot a guys dog should get a life. It's hard to believe I could still get surprised at how stupid someone is.

[elkhunter11]

So like I was trying to say before, even if you shoot my dog when it was in the process of chasing wildlife and you are not a F&W officer/guardian, you will be charged, just like he was...are you ready to deal with the consequences over a deer?

It's not "a" deer,if a dog chases one deer,he will likely chase others.And perhaps the shooter simply shot at the deer and accidentally hit the dog because he didn't use enough lead.Or if the strange dog is running flat out toward the person as was the situation in the first post that began this thread,shooting a strange dog that is running flat out at you,would make a good case for self defense.I doubt that anyone is going to be stupid enough to take the carcass to the owner and tell them that the dog got what it deserved.And as was posted before,the police aren't going to waste a lot of time and resources to build a case for a dog being shot while illegally chasing deer.And if the coyotes find the dog before the owner does,nobody will ever know that it was even shot.

If you aren't aware of it,there was a recent case where a man was accused of manslaughter because he killed a woman when he fired at what he thought was a deer.His excuse was that he saw a white tail and shot at the deer.Coincidentally the woman was wearing white.The case was bungled so badly by the judge that he found the shooter not guilty.If our legal system can't even get a conviction in that case,good luck on them getting a conviction for a dog that was killed for illegally chasing deer.
A link to that case for those that are CGN members.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum...d.php?t=407627

Actually since he lived just inside of the village limits, he would have been charged with discharging a gun in the limits of a town. He thought that this would be worse but was wrong.

Exactly why you call the police immediately and report the incident.In the case of self defense,especially the defense of children.I doubt that the police would be too concerned with the bylaw.

[thumper]

I had a heck of a time stopping my dog from running deer. As a young dog full of life, while hunting ruffed grouse he'd take off after a deer or snowshoe hare any chance he got. I was always worried that someone would take a shot at him, as sometimes deer season was also open.
When he started harassing cattle, I knew his days were numbered. Finally, as a last resort I bought an electronic training collar, and although I hated using it - 'tough love' broke him of that habit in a hurry.
A run in with a cantankerous elk also helped

If anyone happened to see a big pudelpointer chasing a deer past their stand years - thanks very much for not putting a bullet into him. He went on to be a well behaved gun dog and a well loved member of our family for 16 years.

[blackpheasant]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

How about I bring my video camera instead,and do what you should have already done?After I turn the tape of the dog chasing deer over to Fish&Wildlife the landowner will get what he deserves.Of course if you had any kahoonas,you would have already dealt with this situation yourself.But then again you probably wouldn't say anything if the landowner killed a few deer with the use of a spotlight either for fear of losing permission to hunt his land.

By the way,you do a fine job of living up to your name,you open your mouth and what spews out belongs in the potty.

Hey Elk lots of farm dogs chase deer get over it...whoopy doooo.......

[sjemac]

I've shot dogs for less. And yes, I am a dog owner. The first thing I trained my dog on was the avoidance of chasing cattle and big game. Now that we are in the country, I have trained him on where the property lines (fences) are. He doesn't chase deer past 30 yards and doesn't leave the acreage. If he does either, I expect he will likely be shot. I will feel sad but cannot feel angry if he was not on my property.

Train your dog. It isn't that hard -- just takes a bit of foresight.

[elkhunter11]

I've shot dogs for less. And yes, I am a dog owner.

And according to some people just posting such a thing means that you must abuse your dog.

And I have never even shot a dog.

The first thing I trained my dog on was the avoidance of chasing cattle and big game. Now that we are in the country, I have trained him on where the property lines (fences) are. He doesn't chase deer past 30 yards and doesn't leave the acreage. If he does either, I expect he will likely be shot. I will feel sad but cannot feel angry if he was not on my property.

Stop being so reasonable and full of common sense.

A person might think that someone that takes the time to train his dog this way must actually care about his dog,just as he respects game animals.

Some people have the stupid idea that I am advocating shooting any dog that is chasing deer on sight.That is not true at all.As I posted more than once,I have never shot a dog.I would likely fire a shot near the dog to try and get him to break off the chase,as I posted in my first post on this thread.However,if the dog continued to chase the deer after a warning shot or two,I would do what was necessary to stop the chase,even if it meant shooting a dog.
What I have been advocating all along is that dog owners need to be responsible and keep control of their dogs so that they don't chase deer.If you knowingly allow a dog to chase deer,be it your dog or someone else's dog,without trying to put a stop to the practice,it is no different than turning a blind eye to someone poaching game animals out of season or with a spotlight.
If you continue to allow your dog to chase deer,and someone shoots the dog,you have nobody but yourself to blame,because it was you that allowed the dog to chase deer.

[Tuc]

If you're as attached to your dog, as you claim, better tie the bugger up.

And if I don't??

Grizz, I don't like being told what to do. By the way you talk maybe your the type of fellow who always keeps his dog tied up. I like to exercise my my buddy and he is off leash at our camp....

So you shot your neighbors dog, with friends like you, who needs enemies.
I don't think Timber would like someone like you, if you came into my camp I'm sure he'd love to greet you and I'm sure I would let em!

[sjemac]

Originally Posted by Tuc

And if I don't??

Grizz, I don't like being told what to do. By the way you talk maybe your the type of fellow who always keeps his dog tied up. I like to exercise my my buddy and he is off leash at our camp....

So you shot your neighbors dog, with friends like you, who needs enemies.
I don't think Timber would like someone like you, if you came into my camp I'm sure he'd love to greet you and I'm sure I would let em!

I asked a tutored student about the dynamics surrounding rural Alberta relational situations.

I commented that, "There seems to be a lot of situations where two brothers have lived next to each other for decades but never talk."

He replied, "Yep, but it always boils down to the fact that someone shot someone else's dog."

It's the dog's fault.

[lilsundance]

should refrain from posting on highly emotional topics like this one, because you are not thinking about what you are typing. Emotions run high and people say things that they do not mean. Next time I suggest you leave the computer and take a walk then come back and re read your reply before you hit submit. If you can do that then there would be a lot less controversy on this board.