Who lost Lakeside - XL or the CFIA?

[countrykid]

This article was brought to my attention late this afternoon. It is my opinion that anyone who eats food and breathes air needs to read it as well. It is a very well-written, illuminating article that addresses the closure of the Lakeside XL plant in Brooks. http://sherimonk.com/who-lost-lakesi...s-or-the-cfia/

Please, give it a read. The facts presented are truly astonishing.

Mike

[Piker]

Bull sheet

[countrykid]

Care to clarify your position, Piker?

[ice]

Hahaha.... Well that's an article and a half. Too bad I don't have the time to read it... Mabey tommorow

[greylynx]

The anti Harper civil servants who like to bite the hand that feeds them are jumping all over articles like this praising them.


Everything seems to be Harper's fault.

Lakeside was an ecoli pimple ready to pop.

And it did.

Thanks for the post.

[countrykid]

Originally Posted by greylynx

The anti Harper civil servants who like to bite the hand that feeds them are jumping all over articles like this praising them.


Everything seems to be Harper's fault.

Lakeside was an ecoli pimple ready to pop.

And it did.

Thanks for the post.

I didn't get that from reading the article. I got the part where she said the CFIA was incompetent and indecisive.

Thanks for your reply

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by greylynx

The anti Harper civil servants who like to bite the hand that feeds them are jumping all over articles like this praising them.


Everything seems to be Harper's fault.

Lakeside was an ecoli pimple ready to pop.

And it did.

Thanks for the post.

I got, it's the unions fault.

[sunsetrider2011]

Actually Arach did a very good Job on that article, none of it was BS and from her stand point and investigation this is what she came up with ,,I give her the Kudos for doing so. Good For you Sheri

We may have had our differences in opinions in the cattle industry but she is deep enough and understanding enough to see it through for the great good .

[Pegasus]

Excellent article...as Paul Harvey would say " and now you know the rest of the story". Thanks for bringing it to everyone's attention.

[NewAlbertan]

I also got a defense of the brothers and the business, and some sort of statistically justification for what she sees as a hysteria - recall that will kill a business.
She goes on to compare the poor brothers to the giants of the world...
Seems to me that handled correctly (i.e. Maple Leaf Foods), this shouldn't kill the business.

CFIA would have been looking for evidence that the products were safe. XL delayed in providing data because it either didn't have enough or correct data, or the data showed what they didn't want it to show. Either way, it was XL that lost control... and CFIA that didn't notice. Regardless, in the absence of any data showing the product safe, and the questions that couldn't be answered, the cautious move would be recall (and expanded recall). The CFIA certainly stumbled in this accord, but XL appears to have done nothing to help themselves, either scientifically or in public relations.

[sunsetrider2011]

Originally Posted by NewAlbertan

I also got a defense of the brothers and the business, and some sort of statistically justification for what she sees as a hysteria - recall that will kill a business.
She goes on to compare the poor brothers to the giants of the world...
Seems to me that handled correctly (i.e. Maple Leaf Foods), this shouldn't kill the business.

CFIA would have been looking for evidence that the products were safe. XL delayed in providing data because it either didn't have enough or correct data, or the data showed what they didn't want it to show. Either way, it was XL that lost control... and CFIA that didn't notice. Regardless, in the absence of any data showing the product safe, and the questions that couldn't be answered, the cautious move would be recall (and expanded recall). The CFIA certainly stumbled in this accord, but XL appears to have done nothing to help themselves, either scientifically or in public relations.

It goes back to my prevfious comment on another thread About nillson Bros and XL doing what they want when they want and where they want, and CFIA either turned a blind eye or was blind,,however got a wake up call,, and now look like morons.

[Gunslinger257]

Lee Nilsson makes his money on margins. When cattle prices fluctuate meat prices stay fairly constant. Meaning when cattle prices are down like the last decade Lee makes big big big money, when cattle go up Lee makes not so much money. Don't think for one minute that if he thought he could manipulate the price of cattle that he wouldn't cause something like this himself. And the fact that the timing of this coincides with XL's labour negotiations is just icing on the cake! Oh not to mention that when all is said and done the government will step in and give poor poor Lee and nice big bailout package so that the farmers won't suffer.

[sunsetrider2011]

Originally Posted by Gunslinger257

Lee Nilsson makes his money on margins. When cattle prices fluctuate meat prices stay fairly constant. Meaning when cattle prices are down like the last decade Lee makes big big big money, when cattle go up Lee makes not so much money. Don't think for one minute that if he thought he could manipulate the price of cattle that he wouldn't cause something like this himself. And the fact that the timing of this coincides with XL's labour negotiations is just icing on the cake! Oh not to mention that when all is said and done the government will step in and give poor poor Lee and nice big bailout package so that the farmers won't suffer.

I think you hit the nail on the head.

[vcmm]

Originally Posted by sunsetrider2011

it goes back to my prevfious comment on another thread about nillson bros and xl doing what they want when they want and where they want, and cfia either turned a blind eye or was blind,,however got a wake up call,, and now look like morons.

yup!

[Whiskey Wish]

a la BSE all over again.

Don't let the facts get in the way of an opportunity to make money.
Regards,
Dave.

[sunsetrider2011]

Originally Posted by Whiskey Wish

a la BSE all over again.

Don't let the facts get in the way of an opportunity to make money.
Regards,
Dave.

Wont be as bad, but Gonna be darn close I am thinkn

[hillbillyreefer]

CFIA is a joke, Nillson Brothers are going to make another fortune off of the disaster they created. Imagine if all the money wasted registering deadly cows and calves and tracking them from birth to slaughter had been used to increase inspections. Maybe this wouldn't have occurred. Another useless liberal registry that at the end of the day simply creates ineficiencies and waste.

The only ones that are going to lose are farmers.

[Kim473]

Originally Posted by hillbillyreefer

CFIA is a joke, Nillson Brothers are going to make another fortune off of the disaster they created. Imagine if all the money wasted registering deadly cows and calves and tracking them from birth to slaughter had been used to increase inspections. Maybe this wouldn't have occurred. Another useless liberal registry that at the end of the day simply creates ineficiencies and waste.

The only ones that are going to lose are farmers.

X2, The farmers are the ones that will lose the most.

[WayneChristie]

as per facebook
Danielle Smith - Wildrose
3 hours ago via BlackBerry Smartphones App
Just read a very troubling article on the XL Foods recall. CFIA has much to answer for when the crisis ends. I would like to know your thoughts on this. Read: http://sherimonk.com/who-lost-lakesi...s-or-the-cfia/

[oldgutpile]

The article as posted by the OP is very factual (albeit long-winded and dry reading). I still cant believe the "evil Nilsson" crowd who are so anal as to think that this is just all a big ploy by the Nilsson Bro's to screw the market and hurt the producer one more time!! Granted, noone has shed a tear for the brothers due to their past business practices, and every verbal slap they got on this forum and elsewhere, are likely highly deserved. But OMG people, due the friggin math! How many millions of pounds recalled, at likely an average of just under 3.00lb, and you guys persist that they will come ahead smelling like roses? The cost of this recall will EXCEED the cost of what they paid for the whole facility. I fail to see how they will profit from this.

Maybe I am just too naive, but when I see two thousand people in my community, waiting to hear if they should pick-up and move on, this whole thing is a bit too tense for me. IF that plant gets up and running, they have lost so much market share and credibility, that I predict they will be lucky to keep one of the two shifts alive.
The Nilsson group failed on one-hand to go big enough with the initial (voluntary)recall, and once it kept growing, it was too late. I for one, agree that CFIA dropped the ball. If there was a serious issue to be adressed before the expanded recall, someone in CFIA needs to be held accountable.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by sunsetrider2011

It goes back to my prevfious comment on another thread About nillson Bros and XL doing what they want when they want and where they want, and CFIA either turned a blind eye or was blind,,however got a wake up call,, and now look like morons.

I think the article was a bit sloped and yeah...CFIA ends up looking bad.

The stats listed are scued and do not show a whole picture.
For instance illnesses might have been much greater in number had they occured in a more vulnerable population or if people at the other end decided against compliance with the recalls.
Further, the speed that news is spread makes a difference...the media jumped on this one quick and that probably made a huge difference.

XL has a history of not playing nice and if I'm not mistaken they canned their staff a few years ago in favour of hiring cheap overseas workers.
Then increased production beyond design capacity.

The part that none of us will ever hear is the difficulty that the guys on the ground in QA have when it comes to recalls and closures.

CFIA isn't some guy with a badge and a white horse that can ride in and do whatever they want.
Its not like they can look at a result... snap their fingers and halt production at a plant.

Can any of you appreciate how much pressure is placed on the individual at the coal face when a couple thousand jobs and paychecks are on the line?
And along with that a minister that wants votes and no negative press?


Just try shutting something down.
Write that order and then brace yourself because sure as shootin....there will be phone calls and before long...often within hours...you end up in some right honourable guys office defending that decission and if anyone along the chain of command gets nervous...you are toast.

Its no different than the EHO folks.

I happen to know a number of EHO's and CFIA inspectors and they know darn well that closing a restaurant is one thing but...close a shelter or a group home and you best dig out a tie and find a 30 minute drycleaner...cause you are going to be summoned to the mat.
Same thing if you close a food plant...the boss...the minister is going to be pretty excited and there is a 50/50 chance that he'll either decide to scrape you off his shoe or go along with it depending on how the lay of the land looks.
Take that a step further and consider what it means if you are that guy...the one that shuts down operations and does it well and is always right.
It should be good for your career right?

Not so fast.
Being good and effective at your job...applying the law to its extent without fail all of the time puts everyone else on edge and makes them work harder.
Pretty soon...you are that guy...the one that patrons are always complaining about.
The one that keeps getting microphones stuck in faces...the one that stirs the pot and the one everyone...even his own begin to resent.
The one with a target on his back that people lay for hoping he will trip up one day so we can all go back to the status quo.

It must suck to not only have to deliver the chop but to also have to sell that to politicians before hand and go over the details with staff lawyers to make sure..in advance that no ones ruffled feathers are going to tickle the butt of anyone in the ministers office.

So...yeah CFIA looks bad but probably not for the reasons most of us think.
They look bad because ministers office pressure has made executing their function aggressively a mine field that few would wisely enter if at all avoidable.

Before anyone hammers the guys actually doing the inspections they should take a look at how much the legislation supporting them has been watered down over the last few decades... how many lay-offs there have been and the effect pf political influence on their day to day.

Otherwise a pretty good read from one persons perspective and in their area of interest.
I do not believe the recall was excessive but there were failures on a number of levels along the way and had tha been handled better... the recall might not have needed to occur or at least been much smaller and slicker.

I see the root CFIA failure being a lack of political will to exercise the extent of their prerogative when non-compliance was first identified.
Given the scale of that operation and the potential for harm...it should have been issued a closure order and fined once non-compliance was identified.
Of course its not like a traffic ticket and has to be vetted and gone over by the legal team first..we can't have the XL lawyers making monkeys of us... that might embarrass the minister...

The rub of preventive intervention is that when you do things like that it sets off a chit storm especially when no one is sick.
You are being too heavy handed...
On the other hand... once people get sick its another chit storm because you failed to prevent it by... underestimating the seriousness of the failing.

Its a lose lose no matter what sometimes.

[Pegasus]

[QUOTE=oldgutpile;1651597] But OMG people, due the friggin math! How many millions of pounds recalled, at likely an average of just under 3.00lb, and you guys persist that they will come ahead smelling like roses? The cost of this recall will EXCEED the cost of what they paid for the whole facility. I fail to see how they will profit from this.


I agree completey....I think this will finish the Nilsson brothers. They are going to walk away from this plant and a big multi-national is going to pick it up for 10 cents on the dollar.

[DarkAisling]

Great reading, and I love Arach's writing style: the woman's comma use is sexy!

I'm no fan of the plant, but it is food for thought.

[sunsetrider2011]

Good Response Pesky. I see your points, And hopefully you see it from the producers side as well.

[sunsetrider2011]

[QUOTE=Pegasus;1651631]

Originally Posted by oldgutpile

But OMG people, due the friggin math! How many millions of pounds recalled, at likely an average of just under 3.00lb, and you guys persist that they will come ahead smelling like roses? The cost of this recall will EXCEED the cost of what they paid for the whole facility. I fail to see how they will profit from this.


I agree completey....I think this will finish the Nilsson brothers. They are going to walk away from this plant and a big multi-national is going to pick it up for 10 cents on the dollar.

I dont know if it will finnish them or is it setting the stage for something bigger?

The negative media coverage will probaly hurt them the most, however,, nillsons are major players in the cattle industry in BC, AB, Sask and Man, In all honesty it wouldnt hurt my feelings at all, if this episode finnished ,, them,, their previous actions in the indusrty has left a very bad taste in the producers craw.

[sunsetrider2011]

Originally Posted by DarkAisling

Great reading, and I love Arach's writing style: the woman's comma use is sexy!

I'm no fan of the plant, but it is food for thought.

Now isnt she a talented Gal

[hillbillyreefer]

Originally Posted by oldgutpile

The article as posted by the OP is very factual (albeit long-winded and dry reading). I still cant believe the "evil Nilsson" crowd who are so anal as to think that this is just all a big ploy by the Nilsson Bro's to screw the market and hurt the producer one more time!! Granted, noone has shed a tear for the brothers due to their past business practices, and every verbal slap they got on this forum and elsewhere, are likely highly deserved. But OMG people, due the friggin math! How many millions of pounds recalled, at likely an average of just under 3.00lb, and you guys persist that they will come ahead smelling like roses? The cost of this recall will EXCEED the cost of what they paid for the whole facility. I fail to see how they will profit from this.

Maybe I am just too naive, but when I see two thousand people in my community, waiting to hear if they should pick-up and move on, this whole thing is a bit too tense for me. IF that plant gets up and running, they have lost so much market share and credibility, that I predict they will be lucky to keep one of the two shifts alive.
The Nilsson group failed on one-hand to go big enough with the initial (voluntary)recall, and once it kept growing, it was too late. I for one, agree that CFIA dropped the ball. If there was a serious issue to be adressed before the expanded recall, someone in CFIA needs to be held accountable.

I will sleep well knowing the Nilsson brothers empire is in trouble. I might even have a celebratory drink.

Does anyone know who actually pays for recalled product? Would there be insurance, if the government forced the recall do we pay? Would they not find alternative uses for the product like pet foods, to mitigate losses?

The two thousand people layed off will be receiving unemployment cheques from us, the employees will have some time to adjust, or wait for the plant to re open, which according to the Calgary Herald will happen this week. More money out of Canadians pockets.

Their market share will not be harmed,the number of plants we have doesn't allow for competition. All XL will need to do is drop the price a penny a pound and they will be rolling again. I doubt that any of their long term contracts have been harmed by their stupidity. I bet the beef they cut this week is already churning through Canadians.

[greylynx]

Hey Spidy, you wrote an excellent article.

My bias is with the Nillson brothers.

My cousin was involved in a very long lawsuit with with the Nillsons, and I realize that I have a deep predjudice for the two brothers.

That is all I will say in public.

It is a really good article.

All of us Albertans lost. I think all of us Albertans can say we are proud of our grain finished beef. It is going to take some pretty fancy fence fixing before we get our customers back with the same trust.

[Albertadiver]

Originally Posted by greylynx

My bias is with the Nillson brothers.

X2 A rancher I've gotten to know well over the last five years and has become a personal friend has some pretty wild first-hand accounts about these boys. Involving blatent threats to several ranchers in his area.

In the old days, these boys would be run out of town.

[EchoValley]

Great reading folks, I really wish something like that could be read by the news anchors on Global news and let the general public, who only beleive what they see and hear, know some real facts. Just like always the media blows it completely out of the water and only tells part of the story. Yes there is E-Coli contaminated beef. That is all the public really knows and that is what they think when they go to the grocery store.

Do we not have federal inspectors in all these plants whose JOBS are to make sure that this type of thing does not nappen? HOW did this happen if big brother is watching? Do we need to import foregn inspectors? I think there are a bunch of CFIA inspectors that should be kicking road apples down the lease road.

I am a 5th generation RANCHER I live and breath the cattle industry. All I want is to make a living and raise my family, I don't need to be rich or have a new chore tractor every 2 years just feed my kids and raise the finnest beef on the planet. Every time we get close to having a couple of good years some other issue that is completely out of our control hammers us back to the boardwalk.

As for Nilssons I wouldn't worry to much about them. Think of the billions that were made during the BSE crises. As I recal there was a huge bail out for the packers then as well. Mean while the price of beef at the counter never moved and in june of 2003 I sold a live grain fed cow for $7.00, not per Lb the whole damb cow! who made the money there? There will be a HUGE bail out for XL when this is all said and done, I wonder how much of that the layed off workers will get.