View Poll Results: Should we incentivize grizzly hunting by those legally allowed to do so?
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Yes
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37 |
19.17% |
No
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156 |
80.83% |
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06-28-2017, 04:50 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,164
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Should we incentivize treaty harvest of grizzly bears?
Many of us, I'd even say most, believe that the government and their employees are straight up lying about grizzly bear numbers and range. There is certainly no political will to reinstate the hunt, regardless of the status of the species or the damage they do to ungulates, farms or people. F&W and groups like Y2Y have and continue to use grizzlies as an excuse to lock people out of public land, especially during hunting season.
Who would be in favor of, as an outdoors community, raising funds to incentivize persons with the appropriate treaty status to legally harvest grizzly bears?
Does $500 per skin (after registration of course) sound good? More or less?
I don't like having to go down this road. We should all have equal access. But we don't and it does not look like we ever will, and if it means better ungulate recruitment and access, to me it's the significantly lesser of two evils.
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“Nothing is more persistent than a liberal with a dumb idea” - Ebrand
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06-28-2017, 05:02 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 361
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Oh boy, where's the "too hot to touch" emoji lol. I can see this one getting heated very quickly.
I probably wouldn't take part in a program like that, more so for the fact that if I am going to spend money on hunting, it is going to be so that I can go hunting. I am not going to subsidize someone else's hunting trip, but maybe I am just selfish.
I get where you are coming from that less Grizzly bears will help out the ungulate population, but you have to keep in mind that Grizzlies are not the only animal out there eating ungulates. If we get rid of the Grizzlies, who is to say that the population of coyotes, black bears, and lions wouldn't expand to absorb the leftover fawns and calves? I think it most certainly would.
Ultimately I think this debate hinges on your initial point that the government is lying to us about grizz populations, and ultimately I am not convinced that is the case. Because of that I would not participate, but maybe others would see it differently.
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06-28-2017, 05:14 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: North of the Kakwa
Posts: 3,973
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It's all hot air anyway.
I know some farmers south of Grande Prairie that were all up in arms over a grizzly that killed a couple ponies. Had a petition going and everything to get special landowners tags because they feared for their lives and needed these bears harvested.
I ran into one guy and said "no worries bud, me and cousin will come out this weekend and thin the herd for you"
All of a sudden the bears didn't need to go that bad. Lol
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06-28-2017, 05:15 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,164
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Yeah there's a bit of this guy in it but I made sure I followed the forum rules.
Fair point though, for any of us, there's only so much hunting budget to go around.
__________________
“Nothing is more persistent than a liberal with a dumb idea” - Ebrand
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06-28-2017, 05:33 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: onoway, Ab
Posts: 6,993
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The grizzlies may be part of the decline in ungulate numbers but so is uncontrolled hunting.
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06-28-2017, 05:38 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,296
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The poll seems to address the concern though the incentive to register?
Did not vote.
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06-28-2017, 05:59 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,666
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I'm not to interested in having strangers on my land. Figure I'm safer with the bears.
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06-28-2017, 06:34 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 379
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I think putting your 500 towards hunting wolf and black bear would be better if your concern is ungulates.
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06-28-2017, 07:33 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 21,399
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Thought Natives had a reluctance to kill Grizzlies ?
Grizz
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"Indeed, no human being has yet lived under conditions which, considering the prevailing climates of the past, can be regarded as normal."
John E. Pfeiffer The Emergence of Man
written in 1969
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06-28-2017, 08:20 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 833
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They can already kill Grizzlies, why would they need an incentive. I guess if the government wants more gone then sure, but that will never happen. If they want grizzlies gone the residents should get the opportunity and make it fair for all.
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06-28-2017, 08:52 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams
Thought Natives had a reluctance to kill Grizzlies ?
Grizz
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They apologize to the bear if they need him for food or robe .
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06-28-2017, 09:23 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 517
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You want me to pay someone to hunt grizz? So we can lower the numbers more.. so that I can never hunt them?
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Let er buck!
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06-29-2017, 09:39 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: North of the Kakwa
Posts: 3,973
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CF8889
You want me to pay someone to hunt grizz? So we can lower the numbers more.. so that I can never hunt them?
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You'll never be able to hunt them if you're waiting for Alberta !!!
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06-29-2017, 10:04 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: My House
Posts: 13,463
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Keep it on the rails
Boys, this one smells like one that could go off the rails quickly. Keep er between the lines please. So far so good.
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06-29-2017, 10:05 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 517
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torkdiesel
You'll never be able to hunt them if you're waiting for Alberta !!!
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Even so, I beleive in certain areas there is enough of them for a LEH hunt.. but not so many that I'm gonna pay someone to kill them. A healthy grizz population is part of our ecosystem.
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Let er buck!
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06-29-2017, 11:00 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CF8889
Even so, I beleive in certain areas there is enough of them for a LEH hunt.. but not so many that I'm gonna pay someone to kill them. A healthy grizz population is part of our ecosystem.
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Exactly. I don't know why the rabid response to having to kill grizzlies, when the reality is a] they are omnivores, and the vast majority of their diet is vegetation, with carrion second, and yes, they do kill some ungulates. Some. There are many, many more reasons for ungulates to have a low cycle besides grizzly bears; they are only a minor player in that picture. Don't forget, deer, moose, elk etc. bounce back fast if the habitat is there for them from bad winters.
That being said, I would like to see a LEH in areas such as the Willmore where there is no question that there is a very healthy population. Too bad the endangered species legislation in Alberta applies to the whole province, and not to parts of it. Even if they restricted the LEH to the Willmore proper it would be a bonus for us hunters.
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06-29-2017, 11:03 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,338
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Does any one know what the population of an animal has to be to be no longer listed as endangered I couldn't find it on google or anytjjng
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06-29-2017, 11:12 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slicktricker
Does any one know what the population of an animal has to be to be no longer listed as endangered I couldn't find it on google or anytjjng
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From the grizzly recovery plan: "the Alberta grizzly population in the recovery zone is not limited by human-caused mortality...."
The threshold for listing was less than 1000 bears. There is no threshold for delisting.
Long story short, won't happen. The antihunting bios can move the goalposts to avoid ever having a hunt again, as was the plan from the start.
http://aep.alberta.ca/files/GrizzlyB...Jun01-2016.pdf
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“Nothing is more persistent than a liberal with a dumb idea” - Ebrand
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06-29-2017, 11:18 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Uh, guess? :)
Posts: 26,739
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You mean like the aboriginal elk hunt in Suffield? ah, no.
We MAY have more bears than the enviros and anti's think, but we don't have THAT many that we need to indiscriminately kill them.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate
In this case Oki has cut to to the exact heart of the matter!
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06-29-2017, 12:14 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 21,399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Okotokian
You mean like the aboriginal elk hunt in Suffield? ah, no.
We MAY have more bears than the enviros and anti's think, but we don't have THAT many that we need to indiscriminately kill them.
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x2.
Grizz
__________________
"Indeed, no human being has yet lived under conditions which, considering the prevailing climates of the past, can be regarded as normal."
John E. Pfeiffer The Emergence of Man
written in 1969
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06-29-2017, 12:29 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3blade
From the grizzly recovery plan: "the Alberta grizzly population in the recovery zone is not limited by human-caused mortality...."
The threshold for listing was less than 1000 bears. There is no threshold for delisting.
Long story short, won't happen. The antihunting bios can move the goalposts to avoid ever having a hunt again, as was the plan from the start.
http://aep.alberta.ca/files/GrizzlyB...Jun01-2016.pdf
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Actually there is a threshold for re-instating a hunt.
1000.
To the original question, No.
__________________
Alberta Fish and Wildlife Outdoor Recreation Policy -
"to identify very rare, scarce or special forms of fish and wildlife outdoor recreation opportunities and to ensure that access to these opportunities continues to be available to all Albertans."
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06-29-2017, 08:31 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 2,208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muliespotter
Exactly. I don't know why the rabid response to having to kill grizzlies, when the reality is a] they are omnivores, and the vast majority of their diet is vegetation, with carrion second, and yes, they do kill some ungulates. Some. There are many, many more reasons for ungulates to have a low cycle besides grizzly bears; they are only a minor player in that picture. Don't forget, deer, moose, elk etc. bounce back fast if the habitat is there for them from bad winters.
That being said, I would like to see a LEH in areas such as the Willmore where there is no question that there is a very healthy population. Too bad the endangered species legislation in Alberta applies to the whole province, and not to parts of it. Even if they restricted the LEH to the Willmore proper it would be a bonus for us hunters.
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What was your previous username, before you got banned ?
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06-30-2017, 11:40 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 564
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You do realize when they say the no's are down that they only count the bears south of hiway 16 the ones to the nort are not counted in
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06-30-2017, 12:09 PM
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Moderator
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: A bit North o' Center...
Posts: 11,150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slicktricker
Does any one know what the population of an animal has to be to be no longer listed as endangered I couldn't find it on google or anytjjng
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They were never listed as endangered in Alberta. Even the media has gotten this wrong at times.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CF8889
You want me to pay someone to hunt grizz? So we can lower the numbers more.. so that I can never hunt them?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Okotokian
We MAY have more bears than the enviros and anti's think, but we don't have THAT many that we need to indiscriminately kill them.
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Agreed! They are part of our ecosystem - and I actually quite fascinated by them - but they need to be managed.
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06-30-2017, 05:05 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 976
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams
Thought Natives had a reluctance to kill Grizzlies ?
Grizz
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Some do some dont ,from what I understand it depends on the clan. Many native hunters do take problem grizz out of the population in the south end of the province
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06-30-2017, 08:51 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torkdiesel
You'll never be able to hunt them if you're waiting for Alberta !!!
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X2 At least not in our life time, I asked my game warden neighbor a few weeks ago and that was his sentiment also.
__________________
The mark of a man is not found in his past,
but how he overcomes adversity and builds his future.
Quitting is not an option.
Regardless of the overwhelming odds or obstacles in your path,
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It is your attitude that will determine the outcome.
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07-01-2017, 06:23 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: WMU 108
Posts: 6,307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo
Actually there is a threshold for re-instating a hunt.
1000.
To the original question, No.
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Bet we are there already...if the true number did come out and it was 1000 I bet the number would mysteriously be raised for the need for a hunt . The antis just can't seem to accept the science they are asking for
Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
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07-01-2017, 08:59 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Leslieville
Posts: 2,502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muliespotter
Exactly. I don't know why the rabid response to having to kill grizzlies, when the reality is a] they are omnivores, and the vast majority of their diet is vegetation, with carrion second, and yes, they do kill some ungulates. Some. There are many, many more reasons for ungulates to have a low cycle besides grizzly bears; they are only a minor player in that picture. Don't forget, deer, moose, elk etc. bounce back fast if the habitat is there for them from bad winters.
That being said, I would like to see a LEH in areas such as the Willmore where there is no question that there is a very healthy population. Too bad the endangered species legislation in Alberta applies to the whole province, and not to parts of it. Even if they restricted the LEH to the Willmore proper it would be a bonus for us hunters.
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Did you read the thread I posted a couple weeks ago regarding the bears with cameras mounted on collars? The bios had video evidence of gbears killing 45 calves in one spring season. In many remote areas with limited access (ie between the Blackstone Gap and Brazeau river) I think gbears are the number one reason why there are no ungulates. It sure as hell isnt natives or poachers back there.
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07-01-2017, 04:57 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: edmonton
Posts: 668
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the more people i meet the better i like my dog
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07-01-2017, 05:03 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by birdee
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Ya what he said!!!
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