Scope mounting recommendations ?

[jayquiver]

When I first got into shooting, about 7 yrs ago, I had all my scopes mounted at stores like Prophet and PnD. The last few scopes I mounted myself, but I always find myself second guessing my mount job. I'm not sure if I am doing it the best way possible.

I am confident with setting eye relief, torque settings, etc. Just NOT confident with rifle and scope levelling techniques/tools.

I have a fat wrench, Tipton Gun Vice. I typically use Talley Lightweights mounted to the receiver (no rail). I have used a bubble level app on my iphone to level my rifle and then the scope. Not sure if my phone is the best tool for this job.

Do I need to buy specific bubble levels for rifle and scope mounting? If so what are the best ones ? I get mixed messages on this from youtube, some guys say "yes" others say "not needed"???

Any other tips on mounting a scope or "must have" tools to get the best results would be appreciated.

[elkhunter11]

I don't use specialty levels , or any level for that matter. I set the rifle up on my gun rest and bags, and remove the bolt and look through the bore and center the bore on a vertical line or edge. Then I cant the rifle until the crosshairs are also on the line. Then I rotate the scope until the vertical reticle is aligned with the same line. If you don't have a true vertical line , just hang a weight on a string. You can use levels, but many small levels are not very accurate, and the surface you are using them on is small, and not always perfectly level. Once the rifle is sighted in, you can verify, by looking at a vertical line again, to see if the crosshairs and bore and the vertical, are still aligned.

[marky_mark]

I use a wheeler leveling kit when mounting scopes
I also Add a bubble level

[Scottmisfits]

I have the Wheeler Level Level kit. It’s small, it’s easy to use but I check the bubbles often with my Stabila level from my work gear just to be sure. Checking a liquid level is easy to do without any other tools though.
The biggest thing for me is making sure that I know I get a good surface that will be level on both the rifle and the scope and that can be tricky. But that only gets you close. Elks suggestion of the string to verify your reticle level is spot on. Make sure the rifle is level/plumb, and get the reticle square to the string. Not all reticles are perfect within the tube. Once it’s mounted, get it zeroed. To see if it’s all good, shoot it, turn the dials, one at a time and check the tracking to see if it moves straight or whether it tracks to one side or the other.

[FallAirFever]

Thanks for the tip a string is a great idea, so simple but I would have never thought of it. I have a Wheeler scope mounting kit but am not a fan of the little levels that come with it.
Thanks Elk!

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I don't use specialty levels , or any level for that matter. I set the rifle up on my gun rest and bags, and remove the bolt and look through the bore and center the bore on a vertical line or edge. Then I cant the rifle until the crosshairs are also on the line. Then I rotate the scope until the vertical reticle is aligned with the same line. If you don't have a true vertical line , just hang a weight on a string. You can use levels, but many small levels are not very accurate, and the surface you are using them on is small, and not always perfectly level. Once the rifle is sighted in, you can verify, by looking at a vertical line again, to see if the crosshairs and bore and the vertical, are still aligned.

[CNP]

Don't use the "provided" tools in the base/ring blister packs. Use quality drivers or T handles that won't wear/get sloppy and end up stripping your torx/allen heads. The small size allen keys are the worst as many are made of soft metal and quickly wear which causes your heads to round out. I gave up on levels and strings, not that they won't get the job done but I can get a rifle/scope level with my mark 1 eyeballs no problem. Torqueing down the rings invariably causes the scope to rotate as you tighten them. Something to be aware of and attempt to mitigate by torqueing the screws evenly, one side then the other. If the scope rotates loosen it up and start over again going slowly and not torqueing to deep and alternate side to side in an X (for a four screw ring).

I have never had to lap rings.

[catnthehat]

I've used the plumb bob method, the Wheeler levels method, and simply holding the rifle at arms length and lining up the crosshairs with the bore while holding everything " square to the world".
Did it at the range to test the various methods.
My conclusion is that it is a very easy thing too get right and one of those things that many people obsess over when they shouldn't worry about it. it ain't rocket science folks.
Cat

[prarie_boy1]

I have had trouble getting consistent results with the wheeler levels. I went back to the basics like many posters, level the rifle on bags then hang a black string on a plumb about 25 yards away and turn the scope tell the crosshairs are parallel with the plumb line.

[Pathfinder76]

Level it to where it looks good to your eye. It’s a bit of a black art really

[obsessed1]

Lots of methods from string lines to levels. I have used a piece of paper and good bright light as well. Find CL of your butt stock and mark CL with painters tape. Lay paper on the floor and set your butt stock in line with edge of paper. Turn the light off and shine a light Dien trough the scope. It will show your reticle on the floor so you can match it up with the paper edge. Could also do this modified with a line on the wall

[Ranger CS]

Originally Posted by CNP

Torqueing down the rings invariably causes the scope to rotate as you tighten them.

Some rings tend to create more scope rotation than others as you torque them. On occasion I have minimized scope rotation by using a large plastic C type clamp. I put one jaw of the clamp on the top turret cap and the other jaw under the rifles magazine box. Slowly apply light pressure with the clamp, just enough pressure to stabilize the scope, do not apply excessive pressure. Check the scope and rifle are in vertical alignment with each other. Now begin lightly tightening the ring screws alternating back and forth while maintaining equal space between the lower and upper ring. I like to have equal space between the left and right side of both the front and rear ring. In my opinion gradually increasing the torque equally on both sides by alternating left to right with a two screw rings and a criss cross when torquing rings with four screws helps reduce scope rotation.

[Ranger CS]

Originally Posted by CNP

I have never had to lap rings.

With lapping you will never know whether or not your rings should be lapped until you actually start the lapping process. For years I mounted many scopes without lapping. Only after buying a mounting/lapping kit did I become aware of how little uniform contact some rings once mounted have. Once you start the lapping process you can immediately see the contact points as the lapping bar with remove this material first revealing where the contact points actually are. I normally continue lapping until I have more than 50% contact with the lapping bar which tells me I will also have more than 50% ring to scope contact.

[EZM]

All of the above is contingent on being able to, or finding a proper way of leveling the gun first as the scope is leveled independently of the gun if you think about it ..... even in a rest, if it's off a little, everything else here just doesn't matter does it. Finding a flat spot on the receiver to use your small level can be tricky on some guns.

Obviously if you shoot longer ranges, this matters more - but if you try and do your best to level the gun, rest it where it wont wiggle, exactly in your shooting position, then mount the scope using one or more of the methods above, I'm sure it will be fine. I've done all of mine like that, and they seem to be fine for the ranges I shoot (rarely past 500).

I also found a video where a guy purposely sets his rifle canted slightly, and levels his scope independently of the gun but his cross hairs are aligned with his bubble level - which kind of tells me repeatability is the key to accuracy more so.

Again, I'm not an expert, but I am a student of common sense - very curious to hear what a few people here think that have more experience compared to me (the average guy).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSW9...ature=youtu.be

[jayquiver]

Thanks guys. Got some good ideas.

A special thanks to a Catnthehat for showing me how he does it

[CptnBlues63]

Originally Posted by Ranger CS

With lapping you will never know whether or not your rings should be lapped until you actually start the lapping process. For years I mounted many scopes without lapping. Only after buying a mounting/lapping kit did I become aware of how little uniform contact some rings once mounted have. Once you start the lapping process you can immediately see the contact points as the lapping bar with remove this material first revealing where the contact points actually are. I normally continue lapping until I have more than 50% contact with the lapping bar which tells me I will also have more than 50% ring to scope contact.

Like a lot of the other respondents here, I have the wheeler scope mounting kit.

First off, I recommend spending the extra few bucks on a good rail....a rail makes it a lot easier to ensure your rifle is level before you mount the scope.

As has been pointed out, it's not rocket science but I do agree with the above about lapping....which is why I bought the kit. I've used it to mount several scopes now and have been very pleased with the results. When I put my Swarovski scope on my (then) new Remington 700 I purchased high quality 4 screw rings and a high quality rail. I bought steel, not aluminum. The couple of grams in weight you may save with aluminum is not enough to warrant (IHMO) going with a lesser quality product.

[EZM]

To Lap or not to Lap is a discussion for the centuries to come … lol

The last gun smith I had some work done with said he refuses to lap rings because scopes are far more likely to slide around when a smooth surface is touching a smooth surface and there "no bite" into the connection.

I've always lapped before that.

Maybe a quick lap to ensure concentricity while you know down any high points? and maybe not a smooth mirror finish ??? not sure what do on my next gun now

[CptnBlues63]

Originally Posted by EZM

To Lap or not to Lap is a discussion for the centuries to come … lol

The last gun smith I had some work done with said he refuses to lap rings because scopes are far more likely to slide around when a smooth surface is touching a smooth surface and there "no bite" into the connection.

I've always lapped before that.

Maybe a quick lap to ensure concentricity while you know down any high points? and maybe not a smooth mirror finish ??? not sure what do on my next gun now

The lapped surface provides a better friction grip on the barrel than the unlapped, slick shiny surface could. Done correctly, you want to remove some, not all, of the glossy cover inside the rings. This will also smooth the inside of the rings so there are no bumps or ridges which could damage the barrel of the scope. No matter how carefully the rings are made, there's a chance they could have imperfections which lapping will address.

It makes sense to me that the lapped surface would be smoother (ie: no ridges or bumps etc) and provide a better fit, and grip than unlapped so I figure it's worth my time to spend the few minutes needed to do it. While I have mounted several scopes without lapping, once I had a discussion with a gunsmith who explained why it's a good idea, I did some research which confirmed it enough for my liking that I bought the kit and now always lap.

[catnthehat]

More than a few gunsmiths do not advocate lapping as well.
Not too many years ago if shooters were really worried about hard recoiling rifles moving scopes in their rings or getting 100% scope to ring bedding they would epoxy them in .
Some still do it .
I moved my scopes around on my rifles too much to lap them .
Cat

[Homesteader]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

I've used the plumb bob method, the Wheeler levels method, and simply holding the rifle at arms length and lining up the crosshairs with the bore while holding everything " square to the world".
Did it at the range to test the various methods.
My conclusion is that it is a very easy thing too get right and one of those things that many people obsess over when they shouldn't worry about it. it ain't rocket science folks.
Cat

This

[Ranger CS]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

More than a few gunsmiths do not advocate lapping as well.
Not too many years ago if shooters were really worried about hard recoiling rifles moving scopes in their rings or getting 100% scope to ring bedding they would epoxy them in .
Some still do it .
I moved my scopes around on my rifles too much to lap them .
Cat

I am wondering about your last comment Cat. Once you have a good properly installed mounting system on your rifle, are you saying you switch these around as well as your scopes? For me, once I have a good mounting system, i.e. base and rings installed and lapped on any rifle it stays there. I can interchange scopes into rings that have been lapped and trued. The only exception to this would be if one wanted to install a scope with a large objective lens that necessitates going with higher rings to obtain the required clearances. This never happens with me since I have no use for scopes with large objective lenses.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Ranger CS

I am wondering about your last comment Cat. Once you have a good properly installed mounting system on your rifle, are you saying you switch these around as well as your scopes? For me, once I have a good mounting system, i.e. base and rings installed and lapped on any rifle it stays there. I can interchange scopes into rings that have been lapped and trued. The only exception to this would be if one wanted to install a scope with a large objective lens that necessitates going with higher rings to obtain the required clearances. This never happens with me since I have no use for scopes with large objective lenses.

When moving a scope from one rifle to another unless every rifle has its bases perfectly aligned with all the others it makes no sense to lap the rings , otherwise they may be even more out of line .
This is yet another one of those things that nobody worried about 30 years ago but for some reason some people seem to think is a big deal.
I don't worry about it .
Cat

[kujoseto]

I have lapped my Talley rings as it seemed it helped increase how much surface contact there was. As for it being smooth, well there is more friction in many cases with smooth large surface area vs rough small surface area. Whether it makes much difference is debatable but on my Talley rings I liked it, and since using DNZ on my two most recent scope mounting projects, I am on board with their product without lapping.
Some really interesting points made above.

[Ranger CS]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

When moving a scope from one rifle to another unless every rifle has its bases perfectly aligned with all the others it makes no sense to lap the rings , otherwise they may be even more out of line .
This is yet another one of those things that nobody worried about 30 years ago but for some reason some people seem to think is a big deal.
I don't worry about it .
Cat

My thinking is once you mount bases and rings on any rifle and then true the alignments and then lap the rings you should be left with bases and rings that are true and should align and fit any scope of the same diameter perfectly. This is based on the fact the base/ring alignment was accurately established using the alignment bars followed by the lapping bar.
I also think that truing the alignment and lapping the rings reduced the chance of scratching or deforming your nice expensive scope.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Ranger CS

My thinking is once you mount bases and rings on any rifle and then true the alignments and then lap the rings you should be left with bases and rings that are true and should align and fit any scope of the same diameter perfectly. This is based on the fact the base/ring alignment was accurately established using the alignment bars followed by the lapping bar.

That would have to take into consideration that all BASES were perfectly in love from one right yo another which they not always are , especially when it comes to two piece bases.
Like I stated earlier , for that reason alone lapping is not something I worry about .
Cat

[Ranger CS]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

That would have to take into consideration that all BASES were perfectly in love from one right yo another which they not always are , especially when it comes to two piece bases.
Like I stated earlier , for that reason alone lapping is not something I worry about .
Cat

So do you change your rings from base to base when moving your scope from one rifle to another?

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Ranger CS

So do you change your rings from base to base when moving your scope from one rifle to another?

Sometimes yes sometimes no , depends in the rifle .
If one wants to really get the mind screwed around and start questioning their sanity they should read Harokd Vaughn's book "Rifle Accuracy Facts"
Really good book on what affects rifle accuracy from a professional ballistican's point of view .

[6MT]

If you're mounting a scope on rings that sit on a picatinny rail, just find a nice narrow straight edge. I find that a metal ruler (a small one that's just under 1/2" thick) works well. Just set your scope in the rings and angle the ruler between a tooth on the rail. Raise the straight edge up to the scope bottom, and level the scope. Very easy. No bubble levels, no plumb bobs, etc. needed.

[EZM]

I'd say the alignment bars are a must. I was very surprised to see "how far off" a set a rings can be. Even good quality rings.

Even with a one piece base/rings - I'd verify that for sure as well.

Also, as a side note - I won't level off my top turret cap - found that (on a good quality scope) to be off too.

Seems a few minutes can buys some piece of mind.

[cody c]

I lapped a set of aluminum rings and then had my scope slide (325 WSM) I later added a bit of epoxy to the bottom and it worked really well.

Mausers and rem 700’s or anything with different height front and rear mounting points at different heights should have rings lapped IMO, and steel rings it makes sense too, softer aluminum over misaligned steel.. not great for an expensive piece of glass, so worth the piece of mind.

If you have issues with scope sliding there is a couple ways to remedy it, one is a bubble level that clamps around the tube, or simply put a dab of lock tight on the bottom of the ring.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by EZM

I'd say the alignment bars are a must. I was very surprised to see "how far off" a set a rings can be. Even good quality rings.

Even with a one piece base/rings - I'd verify that for sure as well.

Also, as a side note - I won't level off my top turret cap - found that (on a good quality scope) to be off too.

Seems a few minutes can buys some piece of mind.

A lapping bar run across the rings, and then looking at the pattern left in the rings, can show as much or more about alignment, than the alignment bars with pointed ends. The points can meet perfectly and the rings can still be out of alignment, either vertically, horizontally, or both.