Employer making someone work for free?

[altex]

Originally Posted by WhiteTailAB

The way kids are turning out these days I'd say the teachers are over paid and under skilled.

Give out some damn zeros and fails and reduce the PD/drink in banff days for teachers.

What's a matter you can't raise your kids the right way. Teachers are not there to babysit your kid. Parents and teachers have to work together.

[altex]

Originally Posted by JB_AOL

You can thank the parents/society for that.. Teachers do the best they can within their means. I hope you're kidding, if you think teachers don't want to be able to fail and punish kids accordingly. Why would they want to deal with someone who can't read in Gr.5?

But thanks to our new "think of the children" society, they can't do much.

You are so right.

[AndrewM]

Not all teachers are equal. Some are there for the kids and some for the money/holidays.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by SuperCub

I do the same work. RT on code welds.

I don't fail welds, the welder fails welds!

For some reason some people can’t figure out that a weld has to pass criteria- if it does not it will fail, not just on paper , the danged thing will not hold in the field that would have catastrophic results in the places I work!

If people grumble when a QC guy comes on site it is more than likely that those complaining are they are not good enough to consistently run passable beads.
If that is the case they shouldn’t be there .

The place where I work at , a welder gets paid to do a repair but I am not sure if they get two or three strikes !
Cat

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by JB_AOL

You can thank the parents/society for that.. Teachers do the best they can within their means. I hope you're kidding, if you think teachers don't want to be able to fail and punish kids accordingly. Why would they want to deal with someone who can't read in Gr.5?

But thanks to our new "think of the children" society, they can't do much.

It isn't just the parents/society. Let's not kid ourselves, some teachers would rather pass on the problem to the next teacher. But I agree, most of the problem is with parents/society making it acceptable to pass without trying. Tough part is the rude awakening these students get when they get into the real world where this isn't acceptable. An example is a welder who thinks it is a right to have their weld pass and it is the inspectors fault if it fails.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

For some reason some people can’t figure out that a weld has to pass criteria- if it does not it will fail, not just on paper , the danged thing will not hold in the field that would have catastrophic results in the places I work!

If people grumble when a QC guy comes on site it is more than likely that those complaining are they are not good enough to consistently run passable beads.
If that is the case they shouldn’t be there .

The place where I work at , a welder gets paid to do a repair but I am not sure if they get two or three strikes !
Cat

100% agree. If QC makes the people nervous then they shouldn't be in a career where catastrophic failures can occur if something is overlooked.

[Jimm]

If it doesn’t effect you I would suggest you mind your own business before you get your company and you kicked out of the shop. Best way for an abused employee to get favor with the boss is to turn in a sub that’s out of line

[Jimm]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

Sorry for the off topic reply but had to correct this post. Lots of teachers have numerous "sick days" around report card time and throughout the year whenever they need the extra time off. Not all teachers are working 50 hour weeks. Some are in for 8 and out at 3:30. Not all teachers are the same. Yes some are hard working and there for the students but let's not kid ourselves as some are there for the money and time off during summer and holidays.

Please explain how you feel qualified to speak about an entire industry with such confidence! All you merely said was people are different and certainly this is not limited to teachers alone, this thread has nothing to do with teachers and is about a specific welding shop, derail not required at all

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by Jimm

Please explain how you feel qualified to speak about an entire industry with such confidence! All you merely said was people are different and certainly this is not limited to teachers alone, this thread has nothing to do with teachers and is about a specific welding shop, derail not required at all

Go read the rest of the thread as I wasn't the one that brought teachers into it. Someone equated working for free with teachers. I definitely don't need to explain my qualifications to you but let's just say I have 100% reliable insider information from multiple sources.... The difference between teaching and other areas of work is they are paid relatively equal wages no matter how much or how little they do. Unions are the common denominator.

[JB_AOL]

I think the confusion is, salary = some careers, extra time is expected and not compensated for.

This is where teachers were brought into the equation as they are a true salary position.

Teachers (for eg.) don't get paid for the extra time they put in before and after they leave the school grounds (that includes extra curricular like school team sports after hours), but that is expected. YES, some teachers (just like any career/job) are good at their job, some are bad.

[WhiteTailAB]

Originally Posted by altex

What's a matter you can't raise your kids the right way. Teachers are not there to babysit your kid. Parents and teachers have to work together.

When the teachers tell kids they can be one of 82 genders or when the teachers tell the kids to walk out in protest, a lot of the kids don't even understand the thing they are protesting but the teachers convinced them to do it. They're just little pawns for the teachers.

[WhiteTailAB]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

For some reason some people can’t figure out that a weld has to pass criteria- if it does not it will fail, not just on paper , the danged thing will not hold in the field that would have catastrophic results in the places I work!

If people grumble when a QC guy comes on site it is more than likely that those complaining are they are not good enough to consistently run passable beads.
If that is the case they shouldn’t be there .

The place where I work at , a welder gets paid to do a repair but I am not sure if they get two or three strikes !
Cat

Agreed but what is also funny is that a lot of line classes/specs call for 5% nde whether it be RT or UT. 5% is such a small amount lol. Some specs state 10, 20, 100% of course but still. Think of the stuff missed when you're only testing 5% or 10%.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by JB_AOL

I think the confusion is, salary = some careers, extra time is expected and not compensated for.

This is where teachers were brought into the equation as they are a true salary position.

Teachers (for eg.) don't get paid for the extra time they put in before and after they leave the school grounds (that includes extra curricular like school team sports after hours), but that is expected. YES, some teachers (just like any career/job) are good at their job, some are bad.

Curios to your thoughts. If you know the expectations before you accept the position would you consider it extra time or would it be a job requirement?
I am on a salary position and I work numerous hours for free and take my cell with me everywhere. I feel it is a requirement of my position and not me putting in extra time that I expect to be compensated for.

[JB_AOL]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

Curios to your thoughts. If you know the expectations before you accept the position would you consider it extra time or would it be a job requirement?
I am on a salary position and I work numerous hours for free and take my cell with me everywhere. I feel it is a requirement of my position and not me putting in extra time that I expect to be compensated for.

It depends on the position (obviously).. But my feelings are, it equals out. Most salary positions there are busy times and dead times, those couple times you need to work late should even out with the times you aren't doing anything or have to leave early. BUT it also depends on the company. Typically bonus's/raises are based off performance and whether they like to admit it or not, how much someone goes above and beyond.

Teachers IMHO, are in a different boat. They don't really have much downtime during school hours (specifically K-6) to prepare lesson plans/mark projects/tests/etc, so it's either done during breaks (recess/lunch) after school or at home. But let's face it, after dealing with 20-30 kids, everyone needs their breaks. So as a teacher, it should be a requirement/expected.

[WhiteTailAB]

Man I'd hate to have a work cell that I have to have on me at all times. Studies show getting work emails or work phone calls after hours makes people miserable.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by WhiteTailAB

Man I'd hate to have a work cell that I have to have on me at all times. Studies show getting work emails or work phone calls after hours makes people miserable.

I have had it since I started my career so don't really know any different but I have learned to work the balance. If it rang non stop and had emails to reply to non stop I could see that making a person miserable. I like the heads up to see what I am dealing with and if it is important I reply. If not it can wait until morning. Sales guys phoning my cell after hours are just as bad as the banks after hours. Neither get answered.

[JB_AOL]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

I have had it since I started my career so don't really know any different but I have learned to work the balance. If it rang non stop and had emails to reply to non stop I could see that making a person miserable. I like the heads up to see what I am dealing with and if it is important I reply. If not it can wait until morning. Sales guys phoning my cell after hours are just as bad as the banks after hours. Neither get answered.

Yeah same thing.. If it's important, it gets dealt with asap, otherwise it waits til morning. But the nice thing is, let's say I'm waiting in line at the car wash (in other words bored AF), I can answer emails vs having to wait til the morning. Yes it takes moderation, but it's part of the job.

[bloopbloob]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

I have had it since I started my career so don't really know any different but I have learned to work the balance. If it rang non stop and had emails to reply to non stop I could see that making a person miserable. I like the heads up to see what I am dealing with and if it is important I reply. If not it can wait until morning. Sales guys phoning my cell after hours are just as bad as the banks after hours. Neither get answered.

Agreed. I am not salary, so after hours calls are not paid for. I answer my work phone and emails at my convenience, and I am okay with that. I would rather prevent mistakes, or give advice on my own time, rather than have to deal with the aftermath the next day. I do have a rule that after 9pm, it goes on the charger in the kitchen, where it won't disturb me, and nothing is going to be answered.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by bloopbloob

Agreed. I am not salary, so after hours calls are not paid for. I answer my work phone and emails at my convenience, and I am okay with that. I would rather prevent mistakes, or give advice on my own time, rather than have to deal with the aftermath the next day. I do have a rule that after 9pm, it goes on the charger in the kitchen, where it won't disturb me, and nothing is going to be answered.

I set the do not disturb for 10PM and I don't hear/feel emails anymore. Just phone calls will come through.

[Bigwoodsman]

Originally Posted by bloopbloob

Agreed. I am not salary, so after hours calls are not paid for. I answer my work phone and emails at my convenience, and I am okay with that. I would rather prevent mistakes, or give advice on my own time, rather than have to deal with the aftermath the next day. I do have a rule that after 9pm, it goes on the charger in the kitchen, where it won't disturb me, and nothing is going to be answered.

I'm pretty much the same way with my work phone. Much rather deal with a question than a mistake. I also answer or check emails at my own convenience after hours. I even do so on vacation or weekends. It's part of the job and I'm ok with it.

BW

[Donkey Oatey]

If I might quote the great actor Nic Cage.

How in the name of ZEUS'S BUTTHOLE did a thread about welders and working for free become a teacher bashing thread?

[WhiteTailAB]

Originally Posted by Donkey Oatey

If I might quote the great actor Nic Cage.

How in the name of ZEUS'S BUTTHOLE did a thread about welders and working for free become a teacher bashing thread?

Idk but I feel like it's just as good now as it was in the beginning.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by Donkey Oatey

If I might quote the great actor Nic Cage.

How in the name of ZEUS'S BUTTHOLE did a thread about welders and working for free become a teacher bashing thread?

I wasn't meaning to bash teachers. I just didn't want all up on the same pedestal.

[bloopbloob]

Originally Posted by Bigwoodsman

I'm pretty much the same way with my work phone. Much rather deal with a question than a mistake. I also answer or check emails at my own convenience after hours. I even do so on vacation or weekends. It's part of the job and I'm ok with it.

BW

Haha there have been a lot of personnel changes at work lately. A few people moved up to supervisors, have lack of trust in themselves making their own decisions. Often come with what they think is a stupid question. For a couple months now, I have probably said over 100 times, "I prefer a question over a mistake". It's frustrating to deal with sometimes, but I mean it. I don't make them feel bad for asking, and usually turn it into a teaching experience. I see their confidence growing as well. I just don't trust their decision making skills yet though, haha. I probably use that saying 3 or 4 times a day....

[Badgerbadger]

Originally Posted by Jimm

If it doesn’t effect you I would suggest you mind your own business before you get your company and you kicked out of the shop. Best way for an abused employee to get favor with the boss is to turn in a sub that’s out of line

Exactly. There is no use for uppity slaves!

[SuperCub]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

For some reason some people can’t figure out that a weld has to pass criteria- if it does not it will fail, not just on paper , the danged thing will not hold in the field that would have catastrophic results in the places I work!

If people grumble when a QC guy comes on site it is more than likely that those complaining are they are not good enough to consistently run passable beads.
If that is the case they shouldn’t be there .

The place where I work at , a welder gets paid to do a repair but I am not sure if they get two or three strikes !
Cat

Hey Cat .... Are you a welder or on the QC end?

[bloopbloob]

Originally Posted by SuperCub

Hey Cat .... Are you a welder or on the QC end?

Why do you ask? Dunno if I could help you out, but I am both. Redseal Journeyman, B-pressure ticketed welder, CWB supervisor, and my current role is QC/QA, going on 4 years now. If it's a question you have, maybe I can help. Or maybe you just want to know about Cat!?

[SuperCub]

Originally Posted by bloopbloob

Why do you ask? Dunno if I could help you out, but I am both. Redseal Journeyman, B-pressure ticketed welder, CWB supervisor, and my current role is QC/QA, going on 4 years now. If it's a question you have, maybe I can help. Or maybe you just want to know about Cat!?

Been reading Cat's posts for years, here and on CGN. Didn't know he did this work for a living. Something in common.

[SuperCub]

As per the OP ..... Being asked to stay and fix your repairs on your own time is better than getting let go.

I worked in a fab shop here that had the best welders in town who were quite happy to work there but if they got too many repairs they went down the road. End result was not many repairs at all.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by SuperCub

Been reading Cat's posts for years, here and on CGN. Didn't know he did this work for a living. Something in common.

Nope not a welder or QC, supervised both on many projects however .
Been out of the actual field and in an office as a business agent fir many years now , retiring in December - and from the way things have progressed the last few years I am happy be put out to pasture
Cat