Moose populations in trouble

[Skull Man]

I know that local knowledge (from my relatives that still live there) in MB links the major reductions in Moose and Elk to the acknowledgment and rights give to the Metis, it was like kids in a candy store once those rights were given out. Can't remember the year but you could see significant reductions that wouldn't require a survey to figure out. I think most people in the province have given up on ever believing they'll ever see numbers return.

[crownb]

Originally Posted by claystone

Lets just blame first nations for the price of oil, wars and the weather. Seems they get blamed for everything else.

Sounds like your deflecting, this is a real issue we are discussing.

[densa44]

There must be a way the Biologists estimate animals lost to vehicles and poachers. Where I live the poachers are alive and well.

BTW one FN fellow I know said when his father taught him to hunt he was told when you see a cow and a calf, shoot the calf because the cow can make a new one. I can see the logic in that.

[woodsman205]

Originally Posted by Skull Man

I know that local knowledge (from my relatives that still live there) in MB links the major reductions in Moose and Elk to the acknowledgment and rights give to the Metis, it was like kids in a candy store once those rights were given out. Can't remember the year but you could see significant reductions that wouldn't require a survey to figure out. I think most people in the province have given up on ever believing they'll ever see numbers return.

A friend of mine lives in MB, he told me that the moose are basically wiped out. Alberta wilderness areas are next from what I saw on my wilderness hunt two weeks ago in 541.

Thank God that moose are doing well on private property that you require permission to hunt on.

[D-Dub]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

It's the only factor that can be controlled but is not, who is to blame for that?

Honest question here, what is the reason for refusing to allow population control? Is it greed amongst the First Nations, not willing to share equal rights to our wild game? If not, what is the reasoning? I don't understand.

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Why is the decline not happening in the prairie zones, where it's been totally logged out with roads every mile longitudally and every 2 miles laterally? Where it's almost all privately owned land where permission is required by all hunters to legally hunt? In these areas the moose numbers seem to be doing extremely well.

Exactly. There's many factors for the decline in moose populations like bugs, climate, environmental impact, hunting, etc. But a huge part of the pie has to be the uncontrolled free-for-all of "sustenance" hunting. There is no one answer but it sure as heck doesn't help. Times are changing and unfortunately some people have to as well.. There seems to be no willingness to compromise. Well without compromise there won't be any left. I don't get how a year round zero bag limit is still on the table. I know a woman that goes home for the "Weekly" moose hunt... Oh well... Hopefully I'll get my tag next year. It's only going to be the fifth year I've put in for one.

[purgatory.sv]

Originally Posted by crownb

Sounds like your deflecting, this is a real issue we are discussing.

It’s a discussion, but it’s being done with no authority.

We are talking, have identified issues, but are doing nothing to address them.

The next step and probably the hardest are to bring representation to a meeting to determine common ground related to wild life management and not privileges rights or entitlement.

[claystone]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Some of this is called "personal restraint". Just because you can doesn't mean you have to.

I could have shot cow and calf moose over the years, I just chose not to and looked at the future of the area and decided it was best if I didn't.

BUT, the next guy who comes along probably would....so I should just kill what can when I can, right?

Personally restraint goes a long way...

LC

This is exactly the attitude I and other elders I know have been teaching the younger hunters. I personally haven't got a moose the past three years, all iv'e seen is a few cows and yearlings, so i'm just sticking around home for a few whitetail.

[kman35ca]

I'm a first year Hunter. And This is not something I like to hear. Ya it sounds like a lot of factors involved. But maybe we should put pressure on the local governments in the form of a petition that our government can't ignore. Call for all parties to be involved including FN. I'm sure there are a lot of FN that would be in agreement to protect our wildlife. And if they fully oppose it, it's time to put a lot of pressure on our governments, and maybe start talking to the media about this problem. I'm not blaming it all on FNs, but clearly it's a problem. 12 moose in one hunt? Really. That's unacceptable, and killing pregnant cows is just sick in my mind. When I read Calfs are fair game I personally thought you won't see me shooting a calf of any sort. The other problems I see could be somewhat managed, but we can't let anyone whether they where givin rights to unlimited hunting by a 1930 treaty to continue. It's time for our government to grow a pair and even though it's a political hot potatoe they should put the well being of our national treasure of wildlife first. If some ppl get their feelings hurt. Too bad. This isn't about them. It's about our Wildlife which truly is a national treasure.
It really urked me to hear these practices going on, while one guy kills a bear with a spear, which is un tasteful, but the government sure acted quick with that. But totally ignore the killing of pregnant cows so the fetus can be eaten. Gimme a break.
But with our current government they will obviously turn a blind eye because of this non rational guilt they have over the way the FNs where treated 100 years ago. Really wish we could have a government that actually does what's best for Canada, no matter who gets offended. But of course they would be called racist,etc if they did do this.
Really hope something can be done. And all sides can work together for the betterment of our wildlife. But I won't hold my breathe.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by woodsman205

There is another phrase for "Personal Restraint" its called "Common Sense."

Indeed!

LC

[grouse_hunter]

What about the fact that some Natives sell the meat which they harvest? I have personally been offered to buy moose meat by a couple of individuals from a reserve located close to Edmonton. Not too long a couple of guys from Alexander were caught selling dry meat. I'm certain that it's happening in other parts of the country. It is market hunting by definition!

[59whiskers]

It takes about 18 to 19 years of draw priority to get a moose tag in the forestry zone 400 in south Alberta. The fact is there are way more predators wolves, cougars and grizzly bears in the south and the habitat is good. Who knows how much game is being taken by unlicenced subsistence hunters and poachers. 20 years ago there was lots of moose down here even in the easy spots close to the roads. I probably shot my last moose for good about 15 years ago in Alberta.

[woodsman205]

Originally Posted by 59whiskers

It takes about 18 to 19 years of draw priority to get a moose tag in the forestry zone 400 in south Alberta. The fact is there are way more predators wolves, cougars and grizzly bears in the south and the habitat is good. Who knows how much game is being taken by unlicenced subsistence hunters and poachers. 20 years ago there was lots of moose down here even in the easy spots close to the roads. I probably shot my last moose for good about 15 years ago in Alberta.

Sorry to hear that moose hunting in 400 is as bad as what I witnessed in 541 this year, basically that covers our province doesn't it? I feel badly for future generations!

[bpk1982]

I haven't read the whole thread but I think it is undeniable that the nutless politicians all across the country who will do nothing about the uncontrolled harvest is the biggest issue here. The agreement/treaties on this are so outdated it is beyond ridicules and totally unethical. Uncontrolled Sustainance hunting is a bad joke. I don't even blame the individual hunters here, it's the gutless/nutless people in charge who could make a difference here but won't. Afraid of conflict and to stand for what's right. I'm not saying this is the only problem moose face, but I think it's the biggest.

[gman1978]

It's kind of like the elk. They are doing good on the prairie and maybe not anywhere else?

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by woodsman205

Sorry to hear that moose hunting in 400 is as bad as what I witnessed in 541 this year, basically that covers our province doesn't it? I feel badly for future generations!

This pretty well sums it up in my mind also. Same goes for fishing in AB.

[raw outdoors]

The problem we have back home in sask is the FN come from Manitoba as its only 45 min drive they shoot the moose in sask farmland without permission there is very few people around to report them, maybe if your lucky a farmyard every 3 miles that has sombody living in it anymore. Then the ones we do report they are long gone back to Manitoba and we never hear back anything so maybe fish and wildlife can't or won't or just don't do anything about it.
I personally don't think its a blame game at all my grandmother was Cree and our family has alway hunted and trapped with tags during season and put in for draws. If one of us got a elk or moose we where happy for the year. We always got whitetails for sausage but that population is threatened because if the out of season hunters are after moose and see a good buck they blast it just because they can.

You guys will see once the moose in the north are gone as they had in sask the FN will move south and wipe them out down south private land or not. There is more people in albert to report but it's usually to late as the animals are dead already once your alerted by the shots. I would like to know how many animal are shot without anybody knowing.

[ChokeArtist]

Moose would do fine with less people.. heck, every critter would be better with less people...

[Pioneer2]

The moose sure aren't declining where I hunt.......Harold

[AlbertaWhitetail]

i was talking to a keeper of the land at walmart. She says theyre going to shoot 12 moose. You take 12 moose out of one area youre going to hurt the population. Blame them. If this is only one group out of how many who go out and do that.

[Smokinyotes]

FN signed treaties guaranteeing them the right to their traditional way of life. When was the last time any of you saw a FN hunting their traditional way off the back of a paint horse with a home made long bow?

Our moose numbers will never be what they used to be unless controls are put in place for first nations people.

Predator populations need to be controlled ie wolves, grizzlies, black bear and poachers.

[nsaskpirate]

1. Create a not for profit advocacy group called 'moose for alberta' Keeping the Tradition alive!
2. Find an influential fn elder or group of elders who readily acknowledges the problem aND ask them to Co chair the board of directors with.....
3. An influential biologist like the fellow who wrote the article (Co chair the board)
4. Fill the board with metis, fn, token hunter, passionate lawyer, liberal politician, 16 to 18 year old 'I'm the future of hunting' hunter
5. Design mission statement and guiding principles. Have all board members sign.
6. Create a free membership base with blog access and mass email updates. Every member signs onto the guiding principles document.
7. Volunteer donations from members, not mandatory membership fees.
8. Find critical mass of urgency to pull government, funters, land owners, subsistence hunters to the table to actually listen to 'science' of biologist and implement a real solution.
Missing steps: potential corporate sponsorship, mass public education campaign, story time blog posts about what the tradition means to me.

*****to show how serious a pedson is, have her sign a pledge to forgo her tag in order to prove he or she is part of the solution, not the problem. Give these pexpletive a fancy membership like '60 inch club' or whatever. I'll be first to sign

Not politically connected, or Influential in anyway. Sorry for any missed autocorrect.

Your move.
Nsp

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by woodsman205

Can Native Hawaiians hunt here too??? I have heard that boiled moose fetus with Macadamia Nuts is awesome!

They prefer spam. So the mooses are safe!

[boonie]

Must be lots of moose in wmu 510. There was 313 bull tags and 323 calf tags given out this year. Over 600 tags for one wmu. Will not be many left if they keep that up. Just stupid!!

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by boonie

Must be lots of moose in wmu 510. There was 313 bull tags and 323 calf tags given out this year. Over 600 tags for one wmu. Will not be many left if they keep that up. Just stupid!!

Do you have a link to that info? I'm interested to see a few other zones as well.

[Huk]

My brother is a forestry engineer in BC and has worked on reserves where if the people see any moose at any time of the year they will shoot it.

I wouldn't exactly call that a management strategy or the people doing it stewards of the land.

[mad mountain mike]

The reality of the situation is there will be FN subsistence hunting long after recreational sport hunting has been stopped.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by mad mountain mike

The reality of the situation is there will be FN subsistence hunting long after recreational sport hunting has been stopped.

Sad state of affairs all around.
Need to put laws in place for all to follow until then the numbers on crown land will be low and or non existent.

[woodsman205]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Sad state of affairs all around.
Need to put laws in place for all to follow until then the numbers on crown land will be low and or non existent.

I am sure the Trudeau/Notley government will be all over that suggestion!

[dale7637]

Originally Posted by Huk

My brother is a forestry engineer in BC and has worked on reserves where if the people see any moose at any time of the year they will shoot it.

I wouldn't exactly call that a management strategy or the people doing it stewards of the land.

Come spend some time up here, its an everyday occurrence.

[super7mag]

Originally Posted by Don_Parsons

So it seam that many factors are at play.

Wolves, grizzlies, large cats, ticks, access perhaps, humans, food & vegetation, climate, logging, other species that take over areas, and other factors as well.

Getting FN on board would most likely not happen as its written in treaties from Long ago,,, no chance on bringing this back to the table unless there are many legal challenges of endless litigation.

I only see Moose where I go, no shortage in our area, yet areas where they once we're seem to have none.

Perhaps Moose have cycles, good years and lows. The ticks in Alberta have whipped out many of them years ago, but the population looks good again.

I hear the ticks are thick in Saskatchewan and Manitoba, Ontario and Quebec. Relatives mentioned this too me on their harvest in the North.

Any-who, looks like lots of ways to think this one threw as it has many factors that play out.


Many good points from all too

Don

It would be easy to blame tics but we have had some fairly easy winters as far as temps go. I know it's a bigger problem out Manitoba way for sure.