Stop paid hunting

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AFGA has posted a statement on the open spaces project. Here is the link.

http://www.afga.org/index.html?func=news&articleID=24

[Rust]

That is not much of a letter IMO. and they didn't say anything that we didn't already know.

[MathewsArcher]

Considering this is a pilot project that changed how wildlife is viewed in this province and the province wide implications all Albertans should be consulted not just those in the pilot area

Well that cleared it all up I can't beleive we thought there could be any problem with this...

This is what I want to know...


OPEN SPACES ALBERTA UPDATE


On Saturday, January 12, 2008 the Executive of the Alberta Fish and Game Association met with Alberta Sustainable Resources Development at the AFGA offices in Edmonton to discuss the proposed Open Spaces Alberta pilot project.

The following information comes from the meeting:

1) the proposed pilot project is not a Fish and Game initiative, AFGA was invited along with other stakeholders to participate in this working group and not being at the table was not a sensible option; Not being at the table was not a sensible option as well as not informing the membership of AFGA and bringing this proposal to light at a time when a conserted effort to kill it would have had some success. To read this I can only concluded that the executive is still in favour of this project.

2) the proposed pilot project is not finalized and has many details to be worked out which will require the participation of local Fish and Game Clubs; It won’t matter if working the details out comes after the document is passed into law. I don’t need to be a part of a process to decide how to align access for the coming season when the deal is already struck.

3) a great deal of information being currently circulated appears to be outdated or incomplete; by all means update us and fill in the incomplete part, because so far no one has been able to convince me that this is a good idea and I’d be interested to see the most current document because it must look a lot different from the one I have.

4) ASRD will hold meetings in communities near the areas where the proposed pilot is to take place; When and where I’ll be there.

5) the co-chair of the OSA will be invited to the AFGA Conference to provide complete information; finally some to provide Complete Information. I hope this is before it is implemented because I’m still not convinced that this will be spun into something I’ll approve of.
6) a resolution will be put to the members regarding the proposed pilot at the February 23, 2008 AGM. Who gets to vote, Executive Only or members at large as well?

More info at http://poli.ucalgary.ca/wildlifestewardship

Someone pointed out it may be useful to post the addresses for letters that oppose paid hunting

Premier Stelmach: fortsaskatchewan.vegreville@assembly.ab.ca

Ted Morton: foothills.rockyview@assembly.ab.ca

Bill Bonko (Shadow SRD): edmonton.decore@assembly.ab.ca

And your local MLA can be found at:
http://www.assembly.ab.ca/net/index....&mememail=True

you might also want to send one to Paul Hinman as it is in his riding
cardston.taberwarner@assembly.ab.ca

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Found this on the ASRD website. Very interesting especially paragraph 3 and point number 1.

http://www.srd.gov.ab.ca/docs/mandate_letter.pdf

[Bull Shooter]

How is it that 25 hunters and anglers can discuss this proposal (as we know it) and unanimously agree that “Open Spaces” is the most dangerous issue facing the future of hunting in Alberta; and on the flip-side, how can 25 politicians, academics and representatives get it so wrong?

Is it possible that the University of Calgary’s Health Sciences Department has created some new super-potent strain of cannabis that heightens euphoria and fantasy, and the Open Spaces consultations was merely being used as a controlled test environment? Laugh if you will, but it honestly does explain quite a lot. Regards, Mike

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[Rust]

Here is an E-mail from DR. Gates himself. I am going to be calling him in the Morn.


Here is some information (below) for you to ponder before you call. Bottom
line is we did a poor job of communicating the process and content of the
deliberations of the multi-stakeholder group where all the relevant
interests were represented.

I look forward to speaking with you.

Sincerely,
Corm Gates

________________________


The Open Spaces Alberta (OSA) Pilot Project proposal was developed by a
multistakeholder group that involved a range of interests including:
hunting, outfitting, wildlife management, agricultural landowners, land and
habitat conservation, rural development, provincial and municipal
governance.

The Land and Wildlife Stewardship Working Group stakeholders worked together
to develop the OSA Pilot Project framework between April and December 2007

The Working Group proposed two types of pilot programs to address key issues
concerning wildlife management and recreation access management on private
lands, and strengthening the value of wildlife and hunting in the rural
economy.

The central issues addressed were:

a.. Access to private land for hunting and fishing is becoming more
difficult.
b.. Private landowners receive little or no compensation to maintain or
grow wildlife on their land or for the inconvenience of providing public
access to their property for hunting and fishing.
c.. Landowners provide these important public benefits at considerable
cost and inconvenience to themselves.
The Working Group evaluated programs used by a many other jurisdictions to
address these issues and drew upon their experiences to tailor
recommendations for testing programs in Alberta.

The Land and Wildlife Stewardship Working Group adopted two guiding
principles as it began its deliberations:

a.. Wildlife is a public trust to be managed in the public interest.
b.. Landowners should not bear the full cost of producing wildlife or the
inconvenience and impacts of public use of their land without compensation.
NO PAID ACCESS: In addition, the Working Group adopted the principle that
resident hunters would not pay access fees directly to any landowner. This
is remains illegal in Alberta.

Open Spaces Alberta is a proposed pilot project that aims to improve and
expand public hunting opportunities and fishing access on private land by:

a.. Providing an access information management system and access
management services to both the public and landowners;
b.. Providing incentives to increase the value of wildlife and hunting to
landowners and the rural economy, which will increase the willingness of
landowners to allow public access to private lands for hunting and fishing,
and to maintain abundant wildlife and habitat quality.
The proposal includes two trial areas in southwestern Alberta (Wildlife
Management Units 108 and 300) where researchers will evaluate whether
program objectives and predicted outcomes are met.

The evaluation criteria will include the satisfaction of hunters and
landowners, positive changes in the willingness of landowners to provide
access, positive changes in the quality of hunting opportunities available
to the general public, and positive changes in the value of wildlife and
hunting as important components of the rural economy.

The OSA proposal is a framework that provides guidelines for developing
five-year term pilot projects. Operational and management details remain to
be developed. The next step will involve engagement of stakeholders at the
local level in southern Alberta (hunters, landowners, municipal and
provincial government agencies).

The Land and Wildlife Stewardship Working Group will remain in place to
advise on further development of the OSA Pilot Program. Provincial
organizations involved with the Working Group will play a key role in
engaging local organizations in developing operational details for the
programs and in developing funding proposals.

[Rust]

Also I e-mailed Bob Gruszecki today. He called me back right aways and left a messaged for me saying that we are headed for a nightmare and that there is a lot of info that I need to be in posestion of!! So I will be posting that info tomorrow too. (unless a bunch of you have already talked to him)

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[Rust]

Originally Posted by lurch

That is one fellow believe it or not that I have not spoke to. I will try to soon.
Please post any info.

On a side note Rusty, beware of Cormack - his discussion is a lot like drinking Champagne - sweet, bubbly and you can't get enough - but I'm afraid his policy may leave us with the same type of hangover....

Yeah I have an idea that cormack would try and "sell ice to and eskimo" if he thought it would help him here. Seeing as he tried something very close to this with the elk in cypress hills and failed and was openly bitter about it!
But want to hear what he has to say about it anyways.
Later.

[Huntingdad]

Originally Posted by Rust

Also I e-mailed Bob Gruszecki today. He called me back right aways and left a messaged for me saying that we are headed for a nightmare and that there is a lot of info that I need to be in posestion of!! So I will be posting that info tomorrow too. (unless a bunch of you have already talked to him)

Who is this Bob guy? Was he involved in the original meetings? If so why wasn't he informing us all along. Why all the sudden is his part in the secret agenda becoming public, I smell something fishy here. Also heard that that the Fish and Game zone director from southern Alberta never even bothered to attend the executive meeting last weekend. I thought you guys wanted all the scoop and your guy wouldn't even show up...what up with that? If it's that important you think he'd go What up??????

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[Bobby Dochee]

Originally Posted by Huntingdad

Who is this Bob guy? Was he involved in the original meetings? If so why wasn't he informing us all along. Why all the sudden is his part in the secret agenda becoming public, I smell something fishy here. Also heard that that the Fish and Game zone director from southern Alberta never even bothered to attend the executive meeting last weekend. I thought you guys wanted all the scoop and your guy wouldn't even show up...what up with that? If it's that important you think he'd go What up??????

Have you read anything available on this website. If you would have you would know that this "Bob guy" was not involved in the original meetings. Read a little before you criticize. No the zone 1 rep had commited his time to mc the willow valley trophy show before any of this information came out. I applaud him for keeping this commitment to the hunting community. He did try very hard to find someone else to go but no one was available.

Read a little and do some of your own research and you will find out who this "Bob Guy" is. Here's a hint HFT.

Bobby Dochee

[Rust]

Originally Posted by Huntingdad

Who is this Bob guy? Was he involved in the original meetings? If so why wasn't he informing us all along. Why all the sudden is his part in the secret agenda becoming public, I smell something fishy here. Also heard that that the AFGA zone director from southern Alberta never even bothered to attend the executive meeting last weekend. I thought you guys wanted all the scoop and your guy wouldn't even show up...what up with that? If it's that important you think he'd go What up??????

Where did you hear that the souther AFG director "never BOTHERED to attend" the executive meeting? Ya think that maybe he just couldn't make it seeing as the meeting was in edmonton and southern ab is just a few hrs away???? Not everyone on the AFGA is a paid employee!!!!! There are several volenters too, just maybe by some tiny chance he had to work or something. And maybe I am totaly wrong.
Maybe I am also just a little tired and on edge here, BUT IT WOULD BE NICE IF YOU WOULD POST SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE, Huntingdad

[Bobby Dochee]

As we all know this is not about getting access and about money. How about this idea. Take all of the Outfitter tags and Landowner tags. Give them to the landowners to sell back to the outfitters this keeps the landowners happy in both ways. They really do not want residents on there property and this will give them money to "produce" the wildlife.

Bobby Dochee

[Huntingdad]

Hey lurch from someone who saw a conspiracy in everything else funny you don't see one hear. Made a few calls myself and found out who this Bob guy was and that he was at the first meetings representing some Hunting For Tomorow group or something, don't know much about them? Makes me thing he was involved and not saying much. Anyone now why.

I would think that the Fish and Game guy would have thought the executive meeting more important than mcing and trophy day but hey what do I know.

Still think you all need to focus on the real issue but sure easy to side track you. Bet the government boys are loving this.

Please do not respond to huntingdad as he is trying to sidetrack the legitimate people and work that is being done. Just ignore him and he will go away.

[Huntingdad]

Originally Posted by Rust

Where did you hear that the souther AFG director "never BOTHERED to attend" the executive meeting? Ya think that maybe he just couldn't make it seeing as the meeting was in edmonton and southern ab is just a few hrs away???? Not everyone on the AFGA is a paid employee!!!!! There are several volenters too, just maybe by some tiny chance he had to work or something. And maybe I am totaly wrong.
Maybe I am also just a little tired and on edge here, BUT IT WOULD BE NICE IF YOU WOULD POST SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE, Huntingdad

Just what I was told,thought part of being on the executtive meant attending meetings but maybe Im wrong. Youd think with something this big and the governmement boys making a presentation that he'd want to get the goods and get it back to the boys in the south? Wouldn't you want to know what the govermenthad to say??

[Huntingdad]

Originally Posted by bubbasno1

Please do not respond to huntingdad as he is trying to sidetrack the legitimate people and work that is being done. Just ignore him and he will go away.

Funny when I said the same thing I gotta shat all over. Im just asking a few questions and sharing a bit of the facts I now. Why is that s bad all the sudeen?

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[Rust]

Hey HD, what info has the GOVERNMENT given you?????? Because from my perspective they don't seem to be offering much. I think we need to have as much info from as many parties as posable before we go writting letters to the gov. Because if they get a bunch of mis informed, confused as hell kinda of letter that is when they are going to be laughing. At least IMO.

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[Huntingdad]

Im just thinking about my kids hear and sure but think I have the same info as everyone else from the goverment but Im finding out a bunch more elsewhere. Still not shure why this Bob guy is all aganst it when he was at the meetings? Thats why something fishy maybe???????

[Huntingdad]

Originally Posted by lurch

Huntingdud,

Please do share your information on Bob, and the calls to which you supposedly have made. If you can lead me to believe there is collusion, I wouldn't discredit it.

Nice try on dummying the text too - "the fish and game guy" (funny how you knew he was the zone one rep in the first exchange) probably gave his word that he would do the WVTC deal first - because he has integrity. I appreciate that. Don't you have an article to write?

As for easily getting us off the topic, you are leading this dance Huntingdud.


As I said - go find another thread, or better yet start one on your own.

Why the name calling lurch and Im sure I could find some spelling mistakes in your post two. I just now what I now and Bob was at the meetings. I think it funny he's talking different about it now. That's all. Why the problem with some facts. Isn't that what this message board is all about??

[Bobby Dochee]

Nice to see you back in the discussion 209. Show me the information you have that Bob was in the meetings and what organization is he with anyhow.

[Huntingdad]

Not sure who 209 is? I was told that Bob was at the meetings and thought it was Hunting for Tommorow that he was with? You sure seem to know a lot of the members for someone who has only posted today??? More Fishy stuff>????