RCMP Received Tip About NS Gunman

[1899b]

Police agencies across Nova Scotia were warned 9 years ago about this guy.


https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5589277

[elkhunter11]

The more details that are released, the more bungling by the authorities becomes apparent.

[58thecat]

Another piece of the puzzle comes out....

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The more details that are released, the more bungling by the authorities becomes apparent.

not really from what I got the initial police got a tip on a potential wacko....made the report and sent it to the jurisdiction that he resided in....investigated and obviously no arrest etc made....I bet there are a kabillion reports generated on files about many people that never pan out to this type of horrible outcome....and as this investigation continues there will more than likely be other things that surface....

[bat119]

"CBC News obtained a copy of Densmore's report from the Truro Police Service through an access-to-information request. Sections are redacted, but it shows the bulletin was distributed through the Criminal Intelligence Service of Nova Scotia, a network of policing agencies that share information.

There appear to be contradictions around who was responsible for acting on the tip.

The RCMP are starting to look like the Keystone cops in this matter,
I thought you had him no I thought you did type of bungling

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

not really from what I got the initial police got a tip on a potential wacko....made the report and sent it to the jurisdiction that he resided in....investigated and obviously no arrest etc made....I bet there are a kabillion reports generated on files about many people that never pan out to this type of horrible outcome....and as this investigation continues there will more than likely be other things that surface....

I highly doubt there are a kabillion reports of people wanting to kill cops and having illegal weapons.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

I highly doubt there are a kabillion reports of people wanting to kill cops and having illegal weapons.

hmmmm ever sit with some bad people and listen to the spew....oh and yup they had legal/illegal weapons too..go figure eh....oh and your right a babillion slightly less.

[sk270]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

not really from what I got the initial police got a tip on a potential wacko....made the report and sent it to the jurisdiction that he resided in....investigated and obviously no arrest etc made....I bet there are a kabillion reports generated on files about many people that never pan out to this type of horrible outcome....and as this investigation continues there will more than likely be other things that surface....

The question is what investigation, if any, was done by the RCMP after the report was received by them? The RCMP aren't saying.

More recently, former neighbours of the killer say they made detailed reports to the RCMP and nothing was done so they moved to get away from the psycho. Again, the extent of the RCMP investigation at that time have not been made public as the force continues its policy of stone-walling and releasing as little information as possible. Events suggest they didn't follow up these repeated complaints very thoroughly.

Members appear to owe allegiance to the RCMP first, with the public in distant second. I used to have the highest regard for the RCMP but my opinion has gone down a lot in the last decade or so. Once again, unlike most police services, the RCMP refuses to release information until they are required to do so by legal action on the part of the media.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by sk270

The question is what investigation, if any, was done by the RCMP after the report was received by them? The RCMP aren't saying.

More recently, former neighbours of the killer say they made detailed reports to the RCMP and nothing was done so they moved to get away from the psycho. Again, the extent of the RCMP investigation at that time have not been made public as the force continues its policy of stone-walling and releasing as little information as possible. Events suggest they didn't follow up these repeated complaints very thoroughly.

Members appear to owe allegiance to the RCMP first, with the public in distant second. I used to have the highest regard for the RCMP but my opinion has gone down a lot in the last decade or so. Once again, unlike most police services, the RCMP refuses to release information until they are required to do so by legal action on the part of the media.

I am from the old school but I still trust and verify....I respect people then verify this over time....doesn't matter on color, race, what they do for a living etc...just the person at hand.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

hmmmm ever sit with some bad people and listen to the spew....oh and yup they had legal/illegal weapons too..go figure eh....oh and your right a babillion slightly less.

No can’t say I have ever heard someone talking about killing cops. Not once ever in my life. This wasn’t a gangster talking to his gangster pals pretending to be cool.

[WayneChristie]

too busy chasing donuts. I lost all respect for cops when I called the local detachment in Calgary and told them my ex's ex was picking up his son from my place every week. no drivers license, no insurance, with someone elses vehicle. they could care less, even told me so. I told them if he got in an accident and killed someone I was going to make sure everyone in the world knew about it. same idiots that shot another cop in the head with an unloaded gun during training.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

No can’t say I have ever heard someone talking about killing cops. Not once ever in my life. This wasn’t a gangster talking to his gangster pals pretending to be cool.

it was a mentally ill individual that went berserk….like many things in life hindsight, what if, etc plays out...very sad but true....

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

it was a mentally ill individual that went berserk….like many things in life hindsight, what if, etc plays out...very sad but true....

But he didn’t flick a switch and go berserk. It was years ago that it started. Credible report with credible detailed information and zero follow up. Don’t care how it is spun, someone dropped the ball. Now everyone that was murdered and all legal gun owners pay for these grave mistakes.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by WayneChristie

too busy chasing donuts. I lost all respect for cops when I called the local detachment in Calgary and told them my ex's ex was picking up his son from my place every week. no drivers license, no insurance, with someone elses vehicle. they could care less, even told me so. I told them if he got in an accident and killed someone I was going to make sure everyone in the world knew about it. same idiots that shot another cop in the head with an unloaded gun during training.

I think we have all had good experiences with LEO's and bad ones too.

respect is earned not a given based on occupation, education etc and that goes for all people from my perspective.

I just start off trying to find the good first makes for a great day...too much energy spent on the negative side of the fence...leaves you in a bad state of mind.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

But he didn’t flick a switch and go berserk. It was years ago that it started. Credible report with credible detailed information and zero follow up. Don’t care how it is spun, someone dropped the ball. Now everyone that was murdered and all legal gun owners pay for these grave mistakes.

and that's what I said … hindsight...not a good outcome at all.

[cody j]

I can’t imagine what it would be like to be a family member of one of the shooting victims, I doubt these poor people will ever get any real answers about what happened.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

and that's what I said … hindsight...not a good outcome at all.

If there is something credible and you choose not to follow up. That’s not hindsight. That’s not doing your job.

It’s like driving a vehicle with loose lug nuts and your buddy telling you those loose lug nuts will eventually cause the tire to fall off. Well eventually the tire falls off and it kills someone. You can call it hindsight but I call it willful negligence.

[sk270]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

If there is something credible and you choose not to follow up. That’s not hindsight. That’s not doing your job.

At one time, I had the highest regard for the RCMP as an organization, with city police services ranking much lower in my estimation. Events of the past years have completely reversed the situation as city forces have responded to criticisms of their actions and policies. They have also installed effective civilian oversight and greatly increased transparency.

This does not apply to individual members of the RCMP but the organization as a whole needs to clean up its act.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by sk270

At one time, I had the highest regard for the RCMP as an organization, with city police services ranking much lower in my estimation. Events of the past years have completely reversed the situation as city forces have responded to criticisms of their actions and policies. They have also installed effective civilian oversight and greatly increased transparency.

This does not apply to individual members of the RCMP but the organization as a whole needs to clean up its act.

Agree. Everyone makes mistakes. Own your mistakes and learn from them. Don’t go pointing fingers at others to justify your mistake.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

If there is something credible and you choose not to follow up. That’s not hindsight. That’s not doing your job.

It’s like driving a vehicle with loose lug nuts and your buddy telling you those loose lug nuts will eventually cause the tire to fall off. Well eventually the tire falls off and it kills someone. You can call it hindsight but I call it willful negligence.

come on...maybe the so called buddy said he thought they were tight and you took his word for it and now looking back....hmmm should have double checked those lug nuts...hindsight.....we don't know sweet f all...maybe it was looked into and had no reason to follow up more...we know sweet f all is what I am saying.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by sk270

At one time, I had the highest regard for the RCMP as an organization, with city police services ranking much lower in my estimation. Events of the past years have completely reversed the situation as city forces have responded to criticisms of their actions and policies. They have also installed effective civilian oversight and greatly increased transparency.

This does not apply to individual members of the RCMP but the organization as a whole needs to clean up its act.

all organizations periodically have to flush the toilet....seen it many times....sometimes it got worse before it got better...sometimes the decision makers were spot on too.

[thumper]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

hmmmm ever sit with some bad people and listen to the spew....oh and yup they had legal/illegal weapons too..go figure eh....oh and your right a babillion slightly less.

'Slightly less than a babillion.... From the article:

MacNeil, who now sits on the executive of the Criminal Intelligence Service Nova Scotia, said officer safety bulletins like the one Densmore submitted are rare — only a few are sent per year, usually when it's thought that someone has the means, motive and desire to cause harm to an officer.

[Dean2]

On top of the current incompetence, previous poor investigation process, long term pattern of ignoring complaints about the same individual, what we should really be worried about is how many of the complaints that were made have been expunged from the RCMP records. There are no discoverable documentation, according to the RCMP, for a large number of the complaints that people have confirmed they made over the past several years. I smell on VERY big cover up going on.

[albertadave]

Originally Posted by Dean2

On top of the current incompetence, previous poor investigation process, long term pattern of ignoring complaints about the same individual, what we should really be worried about is how many of the complaints that were made have been expunged from the RCMP records. There are no discoverable documentation, according to the RCMP, for a large number of the complaints that people have confirmed they made over the past several years. I smell on VERY big cover up going on.

Big time!
And let's not forget that tiny little detail about the fire station that the cops shot up, and then took off. That part of the story sure did quietly fade away.

[rhope]

everyone seemed to know all about Rosco also and nothing was done to prevent that fiasco I think some RCMP head honchos should have been held accountable in that situation instead of 2 poor associates still sitting in jail

[fordtruckin]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

If there is something credible and you choose not to follow up. That’s not hindsight. That’s not doing your job.

It’s like driving a vehicle with loose lug nuts and your buddy telling you those loose lug nuts will eventually cause the tire to fall off. Well eventually the tire falls off and it kills someone. You can call it hindsight but I call it willful negligence.

I'll preface this with, I am not familiar with Canadian police procedure or criminal procedure. However I am certain there is one. I am using what I am familiar with as a US LEO.

The difference with your scenario is that there isn't case law or federal/provincial/local regulations that prohibit you from tightening your lug nuts. There IS however case law and regulations that say how the police can function. What rights the citizens have from the government. An example of that would be the US 4th Amendment prohibiting unlawful search and seizure.

As I am not as familiar with Canadian laws I will use a common traffic violation in the US. The requirement to wear a seatbelt. In some states that is a primary offense meaning if an officer sees someone driving without a seatbelt on that is enough to stop the vehicle. In others, such as Montana, while it is a violation of state law, I CAN NOT stop that vehicle just because I saw someone without a seatbelt on. I am required by law to have a different violation to initiate the stop. If I see someone without a seatbelt and 10 min later go to a crash where they were ejected and killed, is that negligence on my part?

I am not condoning anything that the NS shooter did by any means. I am using my own personal experience as a LEO to say just because a report is made, sometimes the police can not do anything about it.

I've seen neighbors make domestic violence reports but law enforcement be unable to do anything but knock on the door and ask if everything is alright since the victim is not willing to make a complaint. Can't do anything about it.

I've had suicidal people tell me they are going to do the deed only to be placed in protective custody, taken for a mental health evaluation and tell the professional they aren't suicidal. Can't do anything about it.

I've had people complain about vandalism or theft of someone else's property but the actual owner not care.(yes even firearms). Can't do anything about it.

I've had people tell me someone is drunk and are going to drive. When I see them they aren't driving a car. Can't do anything about it.

I've had people I've given citations to or arrested say they are going to kill my family or myself next time I see them. They go in front of a judge and say I didn't mean it. Can't do anything about it.

A lot of people who have never been in law enforcement don't understand it is not like on all the cop shows. (NCIS/CSI etc...) What one knows and what one can prove are 2 different things. Yes sometimes things fall between the cracks and that is unfortunate. As imperfect as the system is, it does protect us. Otherwise I could just make any accusation to the police against a neighbor I don't like and have them go in full tilt without reason. As it is there are many unfounded reports like this we handle every day.

[Bushleague]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The more details that are released, the more bungling by the authorities becomes apparent.

Its friggin' Canada, he probably could have killed someone 9 years ago, snacked on their head, and been rehabilitated and free to do it again by now.

I have very little regard for the RCMP, but I'd imagine all kinds of things like this get absolutely no follow up simply because it just results in paperwork with no real results to show for the effort. The more castrated our justice system becomes, the less effort we will see from our law enforcement, and the more embolden criminals become... and to fix it all the government continues to make new rules that wont be effectively enforced or punished. The ongoing circle jerk we get to live with, get used to it I guess.

[huntinstuff]

"Hi. We got a report that you were crazy and you hoard ammo and you have talked about killing police in the past"

"Uh, thats not true. I have the utmost respect for authority and I have no criminal record"

" oh good. Ok then. Sorry to have bothered you"

Seriously, wth are cops to do? Nowhere close to information to obtain a warrant, if he slams the door in your face, its done....Zero evidence..so you put in a report, outlining the above discussion, and thats it.

People have no idea how many times cops knock on a door, get told to bugger off, or get the door slammed in their face.....even creeps have rights. Some Normal people make.coffee and invite the cops in to talk. Some normal people say "bye bye" and close the door.....some are louder and slam the door and it breaks

Bottom line is, cops have to turn and leave. No authority to do anything. And if they do, its called "fruit of the poison tree", meaning anything you do from that time forward is inadmissible in court....

Then, 3 years later the guy kills 800 people.....



And, if people want police to be able to do more, expect to lose a lot of your "rights" and privileges to make that.possible

Which is EXACTLY why people need support when they defend themselves or others in their care.

[roper1]

Originally Posted by huntinstuff

"Hi. We got a report that you were crazy and you hoard ammo and you have talked about killing police in the past"

"Uh, thats not true. I have the utmost respect for authority and I have no criminal record"

" oh good. Ok then. Sorry to have bothered you"

Seriously, wth are cops to do? Zero evidence..so you put in a report, outlining the above discussion, and thats it.

Then, 3 years later the guy kills 800 people.....



And, if people want police to be able to do more, expect to lose a lot of your "rights" and privileges to make that.possible

Which is EXACTLY why people need support when they defend themselves or others in their care.

You & Fordtruckin been there, done that. I can empathize. The issue I have if they can't plain & simple enunciate what you just said, and then pull boner after boner, and cover up & hide the facts...........

The fact they can never admit their mistakes or wrongdoing, and illegal acts, means they're doomed to repeat. Mayerthorpe, Moncton, the list is endless.

A truly broken system, a la the 101st. Time to replace them.

[WildBillG]

Having dealt with the RCMP they were on our side I know how tough things can be for them. They can not simply go and arrest a guy because of a complaint. They have to talk to the prosecutor and see what he thinks.

Now it was said his nieghbors complained about him because of what he said or they saw. I bet some of our nieghbors could complain the same way of things we say about Trudeau. Especially if they know you have guns. I bet some of us get pretty worked up when we talk about Trudeau. If those neighbors complained to the RCMP would you REALLY want an investigation done on you. I know I wouldn't. Just look at how people in the city look at anything gun related.

We don't know the whole story and a lot of people that have guns should not have them. This guy was one of them but getting the whole story won't bring back peoples loved ones. What it will do is likely give some a thought maybe we can sue some one and hurt more people in our own way. We know the gun man was wrong. If police had arrested him 9 years ago he would have done his time and been out and this would have happened any way.