- Winter tire: wear-down and studs

[JackieFisher]

Hi Folks,
Finally getting winter tires after using 'all-season' for a few years in Calgary and would love some advice ... Do you guys notice deterioration of winter tires past 2-3 winters ? Would 75% left be okay for Bridgestone/Nokian studless?
Does anyone find studded tires better on packed snow (like in small streets; getting out of overnight parking etc) ? Must the rubber be harder types on these and thus worse by itself? I read that studded are worse on wet road, is this true?
Thanks! Enjoy the next 2 weeks of sun!

[JB_AOL]

Originally Posted by JackieFisher

Hi Folks,
Finally getting winter tires after using 'all-season' for a few years in Calgary and would love some advice ... Do you guys notice deterioration of winter tires past 2-3 winters ?

Depends on ALOT of things. First, how much kms you travel, how they are stored? Did you know that tires actually have an expiration date (6 years from the date on the sidewall)?

I would never buy a used set of winter tires, unless you know the history of them (ie. previous owner), but that's just me. Just make sure you check the dates on the tires.

Stud deterioration, sure, but that depends the manufacturer of the tire, were they studded at the factory? the type of stud. It goes on. FTR, every tire deteriorates over time. I used Blizzaks for 3 years, 1st year traction was unreal on ice. Stored them in an attached/insulated garage, next year they were barely better on ice than the allseasons I used in the summer. IN other words, the compound bridgestone used was great for a season, not so much after that.

I use unstudded kumho's on my DD, they are a great tire for the money, and are very consistent year to year (going on 3 years).

I had studded nokians on my wife's suv for 4 years, and while the noise died down the second year, the traction remained close to the same. Also didn't notice any studs missing.
We now have studded Nokian nordmans on her newer suv, and am confident they'll last for 4-5 years.

I buy tires based on "worst possible conditions". Black ice & ice. For Winter I want the best traction for the condition that could cause the most damage (IE studs for ice, but that's also why I spend the money on nokians, best in the business).

If you're spending money on a second set of tires for winter, why would you not get the best tool for the job.

The biggest problem with blizzaks and most winter tires is there isn't very big voids between the blocks. Nokians have larger voids that allow them to work in snow as well as ice. If there's no (or little) voids, they either pack up with snow or just don't collect it.

Studded tires have soft compounds very similar to studless.

On perfectly dry pavement, you will get increased stopping distances with studded tires compared to studless winters, but that's marginal to the point that most people wouldn't notice. I've never noticed reduced traction on wet, but with wet cold concrete, I can bet that studded tires are way better than all seasons.

[JackieFisher]

thanks so much for the detailed experience and suggestion! I'd be more careful

[barbless]

Yes tires do have a manufactured date stamped in numbers and letters on the sidewall. Don't quite remember how to read it. That's what google is for I guess. Just look it up and find which numbers to read and go by. Be aware from where you buy cuz they could already be a year or more old sitting on the shelf from new. No expert in me but there are some on here. Ha ha buyer beware. Just a heads up on expiry dates.

[tirebob]

There are no expiry dates on tires... Just production dates. And it is not simply six years from date of production. There is not set rule as all tires are different and how they are cared for and stored greatly affects how long they last. Some tires have more temperamental specialty rubber compounds for sure that are dramatically affected by age, even faster than 6 years in the case of specialty racing/max ultra high performance tires, while other tires that are rated for over 130,000kms have far more stable compounds and can go easily for even 10 years from date of production. Specialty winter compounds can also be more affected by age than normal durable compounding, but being stored properly in a warehouse environment is greatly different then piled up on a greasy floor beside ozone producing electric motors or sitting in mudpit in the sun all day.

The rule of thumb the manufacturers want us to use is that they are sold within 3 years of date of production. This accounts for full use of the tires within the time and mileage warranties associated to the product, but again that time can vary product to product. Basically the longer lasting the product is designed for, the more stable the compounding is with age.

You cannot blanket statement date codes and timed use because there are far too many variables to cover it all here, but absolutely always be cautious if you are buying used tires. Old ones can look good but the compounding is harder and provide less traction, or there could be damage that is not visible until the tires are aired up under pressure, etc so always exercise caution when buying used tires and the production date is a good place to start.

[barbless]

Originally Posted by tirebob

There are no expiry dates on tires... Just production dates. And it is not simply six years from date of production. There is not set rule as all tires are different and how they are cared for and stored greatly affects how long they last. Some tires have more temperamental specialty rubber compounds for sure that are dramatically affected by age, even faster than 6 years in the case of specialty racing/max ultra high performance tires, while other tires that are rated for over 130,000kms have far more stable compounds and can go easily for even 10 years from date of production. Specialty winter compounds can also be more affected by age than normal durable compounding, but being stored properly in a warehouse environment is greatly different then piled up on a greasy floor beside ozone producing electric motors or sitting in mudpit in the sun all day.

The rule of thumb the manufacturers want us to use is that they are sold within 3 years of date of production. This accounts for full use of the tires within the time and mileage warranties associated to the product, but again that time can vary product to product. Basically the longer lasting the product is designed for, the more stable the compounding is with age.

You cannot blanket statement date codes and timed use because there are far too many variables to cover it all here, but absolutely always be cautious if you are buying used tires. Old ones can look good but the compounding is harder and provide less traction, or there could be damage that is not visible until the tires are aired up under pressure, etc so always exercise caution when buying used tires and the production date is a good place to start.

X2 That's the nail on the head (not in the tire ). Thanks tirebob.

[gmcmax05]

Thanks Bob, nice to hear from someone who is in the know, not someone who thinks he knows it all.

[JackieFisher]

Damn I got some really great advice, and fast! Much appreciated!
The reason I'm going used it cos the car is old too and probably going to the market in a year ad I hate to book appointment in Cosco, which is full for thsi month after last week's snowfall. I'm a cheapo person I guess

[JB_AOL]

Originally Posted by gmcmax05

Thanks Bob, nice to hear from someone who is in the know, not someone who thinks he knows it all.

lol.. Thanks for the useful contribution..

I guess I shouldn't have called it an "expiration date", more of a "rule of thumb". But hey, whatever you have to do, to make yourself feel better.

[CaberTosser]

My experience last year with the particular studded tires I had led me to conclude that you'll likely get less wear with studded tires simply because you'll get less wheelspin, of course how aggressive a persons right foot is adds a significant factor. I very recently sold my set of studded General Arctic LT's as they don't fit my new vehicle and in contrast to my set of Copper AT/W's they had vastly less treadwear. Granted, I had been stuck with the Coopers while towing and lots of wheelspin was involved, its hard to say if the studded tires would have made the difference in a 2wd vehicle sinking into chinook-softened snowpack with the heavy cargo trailer in tow. The Arctic LT's only wore about 2/32" in 7500-8000km I had them as I measured them with a tread depth gauge for placing the ad. The thing is that between the two vehicles I had the Coopers and Generals on, the Coopers were on an older Savana 2500 while the Arctics were on a new Savana 2500, the difference was about 100hp as the newer one had a 6.0l vs the wheezing 18 year old 5.7 in the other; in addition to being more powerful, it also had a lot less weight in it.

[tirebob]

Originally Posted by JB_AOL

lol.. Thanks for the useful contribution..

I guess I shouldn't have called it an "expiration date", more of a "rule of thumb". But hey, whatever you have to do, to make yourself feel better.

Hey JB... I hope you don't think I was taking a dig at you over your post comment. I just wanted to clarify the terminology of that aspect of your post just so people were not looking at the date code and assuming it meant "expiry" rather than "production".

Edit : For the forums interest sake, when looking at the DOT number, the last 4 numbers (or 3 numbers if the tire was produced in 1999 or earlier though those are few and far between these days even used) indicate the date code. The first 2 of the four numbers tells you the week of production and the last 2 number are the year of production, so if for examplelike the picture below it says 3507 that says the tire was produced during the 35th week of 2007.

If the numbers one the end of the DOT number are only 3 digits, walk away! lol!

[JB_AOL]

Originally Posted by tirebob

Hey JB...

Nope. Not at all, Correcting my misguided information is appreciated, and it's always good to learn things.

The comments from the peanut gallery (GMC) are not.

I was referring to this:

not someone who thinks he knows it all.

in that post.

[gmcmax05]

Originally Posted by JB_AOL

lol.. Thanks for the useful contribution..

I guess I shouldn't have called it an "expiration date", more of a "rule of thumb". But hey, whatever you have to do, to make yourself feel better.

Truth hurts huh