How many draw tags get awarded and never purchased

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by drake

It is the interest of government revenue to have all available tags purchased. As it stands now they are leaving 18% on the table

If every tag had to be purchased, they would have to lower the number of tags allocated. Zero sum gain for hunters.

[nekred]

IN other jurisdictions.....

Anti hunters put in for draws and don't buy the tag and brag about how they saved a critter....

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

If every tag had to be purchased, they would have to lower the number of tags allocated. Zero sum gain for hunters.

Probably not.

Making people purchase the Licence doesn't mean that more people will kill an animal.

[Roughneck Country]

interesting stat, I just did some rough number crunching for my 444/446 sheep draw comparing 2012 to 2014. I included people who 999 as well as who put in

In 2 years approx 15% of the applicants ahead of me dropped out of the draw(~6.5% - 7% a year) taking into account the tags that were drawn

there was approx 20+ people who dropped out of the draw per priority category except the top 2 priority categories where 5 - 10 people dropped out per category.

If approx 6.5% of people drop out a year ahead of me plus the drawn tags remains at 6/yr It will take me until 2047 to 100% guarentee a tag which means I will be 67 years old. Basically another 33 year wait.

[MathewsZ7]

Originally Posted by Roughneck Country

interesting stat, I just did some rough number crunching for my 444/446 sheep draw comparing 2012 to 2014. I included people who 999 as well as who put in

In 2 years approx 15% of the applicants ahead of me dropped out of the draw(~6.5% - 7% a year) taking into account the tags that were drawn

there was approx 20+ people who dropped out of the draw per priority category except the top 2 priority categories where 5 - 10 people dropped out per category.

If approx 6.5% of people drop out a year ahead of me plus the drawn tags remains at 6/yr It will take me until 2047 to 100% guarentee a tag which means I will be 67 years old. Basically another 33 year wait.

With an 800 person increase in the 438 draw in 2014 im betting a lot of guys are realizing its a waste on time in 444/446 and moved to 438.

[CBintheNorth]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Well, ESRD should if the success rate is applied. However there can be other factors involved in deciding how many licences to issue, such as hunter density.

I can't recall Alberta ever charging for a licence once a person is drawn.
Maybe you were dreaming, or maybe I am?

I'll put this in a much nicer way than I could...you are incorrect .
1994, 95, 96 were for sure as he stated. After that I'm a little foggy.

When you would apply on a draw it was only by mail or drop off at the F&W office. You either had to make a cheque payable to Gov't of Alberta or fill in your credit card information.
If you were successful they would cash your cheque/charge your card. If you were unsuccessful your cheque would be returned in the unopened envelope (they actually drew envelopes manually).
Of course, this was when priority points and 999 never existed but still not all that long ago either.

[PartTimeHunter]

Originally Posted by NBFK

I drew a coveted mule deer doe tag in a far away zone I've never hunted. I will make a few posts about not looking for a honey hole but a good spot and then never go. Can you mark me down for one?

What zone?

[PartTimeHunter]

Originally Posted by CBintheNorth

I'll put this in a much nicer way than I could...you are incorrect .
1994, 95, 96 were for sure as he stated. After that I'm a little foggy.

When you would apply on a draw it was only by mail or drop off at the F&W office. You either had to make a cheque payable to Gov't of Alberta or fill in your credit card information.
If you were successful they would cash your cheque/charge your card. If you were unsuccessful your cheque would be returned in the unopened envelope (they actually drew envelopes manually).
Of course, this was when priority points and 999 never existed but still not all that long ago either.

I remember that too! And standing in line at the SRD (or whatever they were called then) office to purchase the cards to fill out.

[PartTimeHunter]

Originally Posted by nekred

IN other jurisdictions.....

Anti hunters put in for draws and don't buy the tag and brag about how they saved a critter....

Are you sure just in other jurisdictions?

[super7mag]

Do we know for sure under this new system what " do you accept this award" is all about? This is an American company from what I understand they do this in other jurisdiction s in the US not sure if they do any other provinces. I can't seem to find any more info but I'm wondering if you do not " accept this reward" if your tag will be automatically put back in to undersubscribed draws.
I never drew anything so not too worried, but maybe someone could verify this on the new system.

[wasteland.soldier]

Sounds to me like they take the non-purchasers into account and so all is good.

Originally Posted by mikdundee

Just spitballin' here.

What about those that get drawn for a tag but find out afterwards (for whatever reason) that they won't be able to hunt that animal. Allow them to cancel their draw for the year, return to their original priority (prior to the draw application), and then that tag gets 're-drawn' so to speak.

Or....as soon as you get drawn, you get an email "do you accept" this tag, if yes, then give your cc and pay the piper, if not, then it goes back in to the pool.

Mik

Wouldn't every 999'er just put in for something instead? Seems like you'd have months of cascading accept/reject options and the last guy wouldn't know if he drew or not until September.

Originally Posted by nekred

IN other jurisdictions.....

Anti hunters put in for draws and don't buy the tag and brag about how they saved a critter....

This would be a problem and perhaps should be looked a seriously. IE, you keep drawing without purchasing, you get investigated. "Interference with a lawful hunt" charges should be brought IMO. Hang 'em high. Or at least find a book to toss at 'em.

What worries me more is people purchasing tags as well. ESRD doesn't know if you harvested or not, unless you elect to fill out the survey.

[pikeslayer22]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Well, ESRD should if the success rate is applied. However there can be other factors involved in deciding how many licences to issue, such as hunter density.

I can't recall Alberta ever charging for a licence once a person is drawn.
Maybe you were dreaming, or maybe I am?

I think it's you that are dreaming this time WB

[bullgetter]

Originally Posted by Roughneck Country

interesting stat, I just did some rough number crunching for my 444/446 sheep draw comparing 2012 to 2014. I included people who 999 as well as who put in

In 2 years approx 15% of the applicants ahead of me dropped out of the draw(~6.5% - 7% a year) taking into account the tags that were drawn

there was approx 20+ people who dropped out of the draw per priority category except the top 2 priority categories where 5 - 10 people dropped out per category.

If approx 6.5% of people drop out a year ahead of me plus the drawn tags remains at 6/yr It will take me until 2047 to 100% guarentee a tag which means I will be 67 years old. Basically another 33 year wait.

What priority level are you at? If you are not at the top level or 2 why bother applying? P10 was the current top level this year and of the 6 tags drawn it was a success rate of 9.5% with sixty some guys applying (not including 999rs). I am P11 now and it will happen, I am just going to have to wait longer.

[bullgetter]

Originally Posted by MathewsZ7

With an 800 person increase in the 438 draw in 2014 im betting a lot of guys are realizing its a waste on time in 444/446 and moved to 438.

This is good i hope they all jump ship

[RockyMountainMusic]

[QUOTE=bullgetter;2500003]What priority level are you at? If you are not at the top level or 2 why bother applying? P10 was the current top level this year and of the 6 tags drawn it was a success rate of 9.5% with sixty some guys applying (not including 999rs). I am P11 now and it will happen, I am just going to have to wait longer.[/QUOTE



Could be waiting much longer if they CAP the priority!

[Roughneck Country]

Originally Posted by bullgetter

What priority level are you at? If you are not at the top level or 2 why bother applying? P10 was the current top level this year and of the 6 tags drawn it was a success rate of 9.5% with sixty some guys applying (not including 999rs). I am P11 now and it will happen, I am just going to have to wait longer.

P6, I am fine with hunting general season so I will keep putting in in hopes many more will opt out and i can pull the tag in my 50's not my 60's lol

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by CBintheNorth

I'll put this in a much nicer way than I could...you are incorrect .
1994, 95, 96 were for sure as he stated. After that I'm a little foggy.

When you would apply on a draw it was only by mail or drop off at the F&W office. You either had to make a cheque payable to Gov't of Alberta or fill in your credit card information.
If you were successful they would cash your cheque/charge your card. If you were unsuccessful your cheque would be returned in the unopened envelope (they actually drew envelopes manually).
Of course, this was when priority points and 999 never existed but still not all that long ago either.

I wasn't incorrect, just dreaming.

Originally Posted by pikeslayer22

I think it's you that are dreaming this time WB

Yup, that and living in BC going to school at that time. But you guys did spark memories of the old envelope applications. I think that hunters even had to purchase a wildlife certificate before applying for draws until around 1984.

[bullgetter]

[QUOTE=RockyMountainMusic;2500301]

Originally Posted by bullgetter

What priority level are you at? If you are not at the top level or 2 why bother applying? P10 was the current top level this year and of the 6 tags drawn it was a success rate of 9.5% with sixty some guys applying (not including 999rs). I am P11 now and it will happen, I am just going to have to wait longer.[/QUOTE



Could be waiting much longer if they CAP the priority!

That's what has me so ****ed off about this crap!

[MathewsZ7]

I would rather pay more than have a cap!!!

[RockyMountainMusic]

[QUOTE=bullgetter;2500451]

Originally Posted by RockyMountainMusic

That's what has me so ****ed off about this crap!

The zone was a general season for a long time too where many rams(although sqeakers i know) were harvested every year. Where they came up with this 6 tags is beyond me. i know the whole idea is to turn it into a cadomin quality hunt! If this idea is so important to have all these people who missed out at the begining then add a tag which will not hurt the population and have that up for a lottery so they get their chance, dont punish the people who wait all these years and now see odds getting better every year by caping it. I also wouldnt mind paying a whole lot more for draws like in some states and really think you should be billed as soon as you draw too.

[Pikebreath]

Originally Posted by drake

It is the interest of government revenue to have all available tags purchased. As it stands now they are leaving 18% on the table

Not really, if they are issuing 18% more (or less) tags in the first place.

Requiring everyone to purchase their tag and to hunt, may actually turn a current successful P5 drawing into a P6 draw next year.

[Dark Wing]

[QUOTE=RockyMountainMusic;2503470]

Originally Posted by bullgetter

The zone was a general season for a long time too where many rams(although sqeakers i know) were harvested every year. Where they came up with this 6 tags is beyond me. i know the whole idea is to turn it into a cadomin quality hunt! If this idea is so important to have all these people who missed out at the begining then add a tag which will not hurt the population and have that up for a lottery so they get their chance, dont punish the people who wait all these years and now see odds getting better every year by caping it. I also wouldnt mind paying a whole lot more for draws like in some states and really think you should be billed as soon as you draw too.

I'm in the same boat as you and would be very disappointed if they changed the draw to a cap. Right now I could draw a tag either next year or when I'm 65, up to an 18 year wait. Until then I'll be hunting the zones around 444/446 and will probably connect on ram with a general tag before I draw one off the mine. So it's not like the sheep draw is the only opportunity to harvest a ram.When I draw a mine tag the plan is to partner with my daughter and help her get a ram.

[Roughneck Country]

[QUOTE=RockyMountainMusic;2503470]

Originally Posted by bullgetter

The zone was a general season for a long time too where many rams(although sqeakers i know) were harvested every year. Where they came up with this 6 tags is beyond me. i know the whole idea is to turn it into a cadomin quality hunt! If this idea is so important to have all these people who missed out at the begining then add a tag which will not hurt the population and have that up for a lottery so they get their chance, dont punish the people who wait all these years and now see odds getting better every year by caping it. I also wouldnt mind paying a whole lot more for draws like in some states and really think you should be billed as soon as you draw too.

They are trying to turn this into a Cadomine calibre hunt?? Most of the rams I have seen taken from that area were in the first day or two and not terribly hunge IMO.
Not sure where the six tags a year came from either. For the size of the unit there should be many more. Maybe they will increase the number of tags some day.

[Dark Wing]

[QUOTE=Roughneck Country;2503844]

Originally Posted by RockyMountainMusic

They are trying to turn this into a Cadomine calibre hunt?? Most of the rams I have seen taken from that area were in the first day or two and not terribly hunge IMO.
Not sure where the six tags a year came from either. For the size of the unit there should be many more. Maybe they will increase the number of tags some day.

The rams are hunted hard by subsistance hunters before the opener and November. Makes it tough to grow big rams.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by MathewsZ7

Im 100% for tag cost being automatically billed as soon as you are drawn.

And ive looked for the stats but so far have come up empty handed.

Yes get drawn you have one week to reply with full cost payment, if not it gets redrawn immediately.

[Dark Wing]

Here's an Idea. Give the unpurchased draw tags to the local F&W office and he can set up system to divy them out to people living in the area who are almost guaranteed to use them. eg lots of suffield cow elk tags were given out but how many guys actually did the hunt. Camp WR probably have lots of no shows as well that I'm sure the locals or guys on the base may use. Just an Idea don't crusify me lol.

[RockyMountainMusic]

[QUOTE=Roughneck Country;2503844]

Originally Posted by RockyMountainMusic

They are trying to turn this into a Cadomine calibre hunt?? Most of the rams I have seen taken from that area were in the first day or two and not terribly hunge IMO.
Not sure where the six tags a year came from either. For the size of the unit there should be many more. Maybe they will increase the number of tags some day.

That was what i was told by our gov at our local meeting when they were putting this on draw, because our rams grew so quick they envisioned a cadomin calibre hunt. Dont think thats going to happen but they do grow at a faster rate than most rams. And yes there is native hunting but im willing to bet there are more rams being killed by the cougars preying on them up there. Its a hard place for hound hunters to hunt the cats if you like your dogs its not a good place to let go on the cats which is why no one hardly hunts them there! Either way it is a good size zone that could handle more tags but like the grizzle bear crap and everything else its all about politics and nothing about the animals. Where is all of our bioligists with F&W? Its all retarded, moose used to be a general tag over the counter for Nov 1 to30th and our zones supported that healthy and now your looking at 4 plus years to get a tag. Mule deer gone to draw in 356 last year?? agian wheres the science to that one, BS its all politcs cause people were shooting them in 357 claiming shooting them in 356 so what do we do, instead of fixing and patroling and gov spend money they take the easy door and move 356 to draw! Its all about the politics!

[moose maniac]

[QUOTE=Dark Wing;2503849]

Originally Posted by Roughneck Country

The rams are hunted hard by subsistance hunters before the opener and November. Makes it tough to grow big rams.

Lmao of course they are I bet they fill reefer vans don't they!!

[Dacotensis]

[QUOTE=moose maniac;2504779]

Originally Posted by Dark Wing

Lmao of course they are I bet they fill reefer vans don't they!!

Reefer vans don't have to be filled in order to make an impact on a population of sheep.
Consider the number of quality rams vs pressure/ and harvest.
10 rams would be plenty to make an impact, not to mention human presence.

It sounds as though there is denial that there is subsistence hunter pressure in the area.
Sorry, might not be the way you wanted your "lmao" to come across....


Edit. And I have no idea why this is quoting the wrong member?

[bullgetter]

[QUOTE=RockyMountainMusic;2504589]

Originally Posted by Roughneck Country

That was what i was told by our gov at our local meeting when they were putting this on draw, because our rams grew so quick they envisioned a cadomin calibre hunt. Dont think thats going to happen but they do grow at a faster rate than most rams. And yes there is native hunting but im willing to bet there are more rams being killed by the cougars preying on them up there. Its a hard place for hound hunters to hunt the cats if you like your dogs its not a good place to let go on the cats which is why no one hardly hunts them there! Either way it is a good size zone that could handle more tags but like the grizzle bear crap and everything else its all about politics and nothing about the animals. Where is all of our bioligists with F&W? Its all retarded, moose used to be a general tag over the counter for Nov 1 to30th and our zones supported that healthy and now your looking at 4 plus years to get a tag. Mule deer gone to draw in 356 last year?? agian wheres the science to that one, BS its all politcs cause people were shooting them in 357 claiming shooting them in 356 so what do we do, instead of fixing and patroling and gov spend money they take the easy door and move 356 to draw! Its all about the politics!

I am not sure if in recent years all 6 tags are being filled in 444. It is not a given you will get a ram and they are not the size of rams in cadomin.