Changes to Sheep Hunting Regulations - Page 4

Huntnut · #91 12-23-2011, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheephunter

According to SRD the draw suggestion came from stakeholders in AGMAG, SRD is just the one that put the info together on what a draw would like like....through rose coloured glasses!

Excuse my ignorance but what does AGMAG stand for again???

#92 12-23-2011, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huntnut

Excuse my ignorance but what does AGMAG stand for again???

Alberta Game Management Advisory Group if memory serves me correctly.

Huntnut · #93 12-23-2011, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Alberta Game Management Advisory Group if memory serves me correctly.

Do you know who all that comprises off??

#94 12-23-2011, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huntnut

Do you know who all that comprises off??

Post 66 in this thread.

Alberta Bowhunters Association
Alberta Fish & Game Association
Hunting For Tomorrow
Alberta Professional Outfitters Society
SRD (Game Management & Enforcement)
Tourism & Parks
Pheasants Forever
Wild Sheep Foundation (Alberta)
Alberta Association of Municipal Districts & Counties
Alberta Beef Producers
Alberta Chapter of the Wildlife Society
Delta Waterfowl Foundation
Ducks Unlimited Canada

Justin.C · #95 12-23-2011, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheephunter

According to SRD the draw suggestion came from stakeholders in AGMAG, SRD is just the one that put the info together on what a draw would like like....through rose coloured glasses!

The stakeholder= APOS.

I just have a hard time believing any real group would proper this crap.

Huntnut · #96 12-23-2011, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Post 66 in this thread.

Alberta Bowhunters Association
Alberta Fish & Game Association
Hunting For Tomorrow
Alberta Professional Outfitters Society
SRD (Game Management & Enforcement)
Tourism & Parks
Pheasants Forever
Wild Sheep Foundation (Alberta)
Alberta Association of Municipal Districts & Counties
Alberta Beef Producers
Alberta Chapter of the Wildlife Society
Delta Waterfowl Foundation
Ducks Unlimited Canada

So who has the SRD by the short and curlies???

Last time this came up I emailed alot of people and they all said one zone was slightly below what they would like for legal rams but all the rest they were happy with. So WTF has happened since then???

Wrongside · #97 12-23-2011, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LongDraw

Isn't it great that there is a proposal so the Outfitters/ Non Resident Aliens don't lose any opportunity on Trophy Sheep, yet being bantered to fix the "problem" is longer sit out's, and all resident sheep tags going on draw.

Adding insult to injury the concession that is being looked at for outfitters would put even more pressure on sheep, opening up a resident only area to non-residents.

This is seriously flawed logic, outrageous!

x2

Residents first should only make sense.

MountainTi · #98 12-23-2011, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Death

I know that one of the many proposals/ideas they are looking at is outfitter tags south of the Bow. They want to take some pressure off the West Central areas, and this, they believe, may help. I'm also told that outfitter allotment reductions are NOT an option. The Gov't can't afford to buy them out at market value and there would apparently be 'serious legal issues' if they were reduced in any other way.

The sheep outfitters with tags in the zones on the psssible draw list already know if it comes down to a draw, they are more than likely going to lose tags. How they will do it I'm not sure, most likely a trade of areas or swap for another type of allotment.

Justin.C · #99 12-23-2011, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MountainTi

The sheep outfitters with tags in the zones on the psssible draw list already know if it comes down to a draw, they are more than likely going to lose tags. How they will do it I'm not sure, most likely a trade of areas or swap for another type of allotment.

But if these is not enough for us why should anybody from somewhere else be aloud to hunt them. They are the biggest problem. Sorry I will change that. They are the ones killing % wise the most

Rocks · #**100** 12-23-2011, 06:44 PM

Is there a place to find sheep pop. numbers, licence numbers and harvest numbers? I'm looking but can't find anything so far, SRD has a 1993 sheep management plan on their website (is that the latest??), and the latest sheep pop. number I could find was 11000+ for 2007. I think the yearly resident harvest averages 150-200?

Acesneights · #**101** 12-23-2011, 07:08 PM

Personally I believe there is nothing wrong with th sheep population in k country however go up north where there are outfitters who get paid to kill sheep and you will have a very very hard time finding a decent ram, majority are all sqeakers.Then this season I was talking to a guy I met who guides for an outfitter around the highway 40 area and he said every ram they got was under an inch legal.So my opinion is to cut down on selling out.

whitetail Junkie · #**102** 12-23-2011, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MountainTi

The sheep outfitters with tags in the zones on the psssible draw list already know if it comes down to a draw, they are more than likely going to lose tags. How they will do it I'm not sure, most likely a trade of areas or swap for another type of allotment.

Just like when the CWD started in some of the prairie wmu's...SRD Allowed outfitters who had muledeer buck allocations in the affected cwd wmu's to Transfer there tags to other wmu's that didnt have the CWD hunting.

I hate APOS...

ksteed17 · #**103** 12-23-2011, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdarling

Personally I believe there is nothing wrong with th sheep population in k country however go up north where there are outfitters who get paid to kill sheep and you will have a very very hard time finding a decent ram, majority are all sqeakers.Then this season I was talking to a guy I met who guides for an outfitter around the highway 40 area and he said every ram they got was under an inch legal.So my opinion is to cut down on selling out.

Why and how are they able to Harvest illegal rams??

Acesneights · #**104** 12-23-2011, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ksteed17

Why and how are they able to Harvest illegal rams??

Umm I think you misunderstood under one inch legal would be the measurement between a ram that is legal and one inch past legal.maybe I should've explained better.basically any ram they shot was legal but barely

woods_walker · #**105** 12-24-2011, 01:15 AM

Thanks for that clarification bdarling on the under an inch legal comment. I at first thought the same thing that they harvested illegal rams.

I know I have never applied for any of the current sheep draws that are currently out there, but I know if it does come up as a province wide draw that I will add my name to the list. I don't think I am the only one like that, so I would have to agree that the number of draw applicants will increase significantly beyond what it currently is.

ram crazy · #**106** 12-24-2011, 09:44 AM

That was poor wording, as most guys thought the same. Glad you cleared that up.

northernwhitey1 · #**107** 12-24-2011, 12:11 PM

are they changing the regulations because some areas have low ram populations?

If they are low in some areas, why dont they transplant rams from areas like cadimon. I have heard that there was 30 or 40 mature rams that died from winter kill.

#**108** 12-24-2011, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by northernwhitey1

are they changing the regulations because some areas have low ram populations?

If they are low in some areas, why dont they transplant rams from areas like cadimon. I have heard that there was 30 or 40 mature rams that died from winter kill.

My understanding is that numbers are okay it's just that they are under their goal of 5% legal rams.

walking buffalo · #**109** 12-24-2011, 12:41 PM

Broken promises from SRD that they would release the data to the Public before making any decisions....

Smell the coffee Boys!

There are alterior motives to these proposed changes beyond helping get the mature ram pop. over 5% in the few WMU's that had low counts.

If SRD and the AGMAG interests cared to maintain Public hunting opportunity and help reduce Ram harvest, the answer is simple, too simple to achieve what they really want.

In those WMU's with a low Mature ram count, increase the legal requirement to full curl until the winter count reaches the 5% threshold. When the threshold is met, the legal requirement returns to 4/5 curl.

While this technique would work for the Ram % issue, it doesn't satisfy what is really being sought.

justinO · #**110** 12-24-2011, 01:01 PM

They should open up the sheep season. Give 3 ewe tags to anyone who wants a tag. The goal is to kill every animal in Alberta right.

And don't worry about non residents a few more hunting season like this they will not be coming here anymore.

Frans · #**111** 12-24-2011, 01:04 PM

I got a "don't worry, we are only exploring ideas and will consult stakeholders" email back, from Ron Blorge, and a "no changes for 2012". He didn't address any of the issues raised. Somehow that doesn't put my mind at ease.

LongDraw · #**112** 12-24-2011, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Broken promises from SRD that they would release the data to the Public before making any decisions....

Smell the coffee Boys!

There are alterior motives to these proposed changes beyond helping get the mature ram pop. over 5% in the few WMU's that had low counts.

If SRD and the AGMAG interests cared to maintain Public hunting opportunity and help reduce Ram harvest, the answer is simple, too simple to achieve what they really want.

In those WMU's with a low Mature ram count, increase the legal requirement to full curl until the winter count reaches the 5% threshold. When the threshold is met, the legal requirement returns to 4/5 curl.

While this technique would work for the Ram % issue, it doesn't satisfy what is really being sought.

What are the alterior motives and what is really being sought in your opinion?

Justin.C · #**113** 12-24-2011, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LongDraw

What are the alterior motives and what is really being sought in your opinion?

I would bet it is to make better rams for the outfitters... Even though a draw is not going to put more rams on the mountain as really after a 10 year wait the first legal ram seen will be shot.... So the only thing other than outfitters is just to control hunters....

#**114** 12-26-2011, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LongDraw

What are the alterior motives and what is really being sought in your opinion?

Not really sure I'd say there are alterior motives at work but there is no doubt in my mind that there are many sheep hunters that would like an opportunity to hunt bigger sheep and they look south to Montana and their draw system. I think F&W likes the idea of a draw as it's the easiest to manage and I think they are trying to sell the idea with their very optimistic tale of 1-2 year wait times. Make no mistake, this is an outright sales job by F&W and it seems some of the stakeholders are buying into it. Obviously outfitters would be the biggest benificary. Not sure they are driving it but I can sure see them supporting it.

steve · #**115** 12-26-2011, 12:31 PM

Would outfitter tags be decreased if it went to a draw? Has SRD said anything reguarding outfitter tag numbers being decreased if res opportunity decreases?

spurly · #**116** 12-26-2011, 12:51 PM

To the best of my knowledge. the outfitter tags are lifetime allocations, that cannot be taken away, without compensation. they own these tags, and can sell or lease the rights to them, but they cannot have them taken away.they may, open up new zones to outfitters, if they are willing to transfer their tags to a new zone.

#**117** 12-26-2011, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve

Would outfitter tags be decreased if it went to a draw? Has SRD said anything reguarding outfitter tag numbers being decreased if res opportunity decreases?

Nothing concrete but no plans to reduce them from what I've been told.

steve · #**118** 12-26-2011, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Nothing concrete but no plans to reduce them from what I've been told.

Sheep outfitters must be praying it goes to draw...

#**119** 12-26-2011, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve

Sheep outfitters must be praying it goes to draw...

Of the three options, it's certainly the best case scenario for outfitters.

walking buffalo · #**120** 12-26-2011, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LongDraw

What are the alterior motives and what is really being sought in your opinion?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Not really sure I'd say there are alterior motives at work but there is no doubt in my mind that there are many sheep hunters that would like an opportunity to hunt bigger sheep and they look south to Montana and their draw system. I think F&W likes the idea of a draw as it's the easiest to manage and I think they are trying to sell the idea with their very optimistic tale of 1-2 year wait times. Make no mistake, this is an outright sales job by F&W and it seems some of the stakeholders are buying into it. Obviously outfitters would be the biggest benificary. Not sure they are driving it but I can sure see them supporting it.

Look at the stakeholders.

I think SH has SRD correct, they seem to be on a drive to put ALL Big Game hunting on Draw.

APOS- That's obvious.

Parks and Rec. They want hunting out of the mountains and Wildlands. Y2Y is part of this picture.

The upcoming Public Land Public Access Plan in conjunction with the Grizzly Bear Recovery Plan both desire to severely restrict access in many areas. A part of the technique is to limit hunting through limiting licences to Draw only.