FISA Memo Released (thoughts?)

[midgetwaiter]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

We need more information.

Any other ways to scrutinize or vette the application?

What's taken place so far is basically this;

Nunes, who was a member of Trump's transition team last year, and his staff have shown up with a big box full of stuff. They say this stuff is very bad but they can't show anyone because it's secret. They did work with the Whitehouse staff to produce a memo showing some of the stuff the stuff in the box is very bad but they aren't going to show you the stuff.

Other people (democrats) who have seen the stuff say there's a lot more in there and that it changes the narrative significantly. They wrote a memo describing this but the republicans won't let them release it, they voted against it.

Still other people who have seen the stuff in the box, like the guy Trump appointed to be the head of the FBI after he fired Comey and the guy Trump appointed to be the Deputy Attorney General have said there's a lot more in there and that it changes the narrative significantly.

The republican judges on the FISC saw the stuff in the box and they thought it met the standards for probable cause. Presumably you have to know all sort of law stuff to be a judge on the FISC.

It really doesn't matter if you think Trump is a fantastic president or a disaster, this can't be what we accept as "proof"! If a guy in the mall parking lot came to you trying to sell a box full of gold bars but told you, "I can't show you the bars but I can show you this memo my friend wrote about how great they are" would you buy them?

[roper1]

One inescapable fact, after Wray saw it, McCabe walked the plank!! There is definitely something there.

[2 Tollers]

Originally Posted by roper1

Were all 4 judges part of the renewals? That seems strange or is that part of the process? At any rate, it seems to me a renewal would get less scrutiny than the original application, just human nature.

One judge only for the approved application. The initial application was denied and the second came back with the dossier as support for the application. The second application was approved by one judge. Provisions are in place that renewals are required every 90 days. These renewals were submitted by different people and approved by individual judges. The key is flawed dossier was used as the basis to obtain a FISA order to spy on a US citizen and not all information was released to the FISA judge in the application process.

As Bessie has said there is lots more behind this that needs to come out to the public for viewing. Unfortunately some people are now scrambling for judges orders to hold back information. I would like to see all the dirty stuff come out and the chips fall. There needs to be a good house cleaning.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFxEyMQJqwQ

[Crankbait]

Originally Posted by JD848

I didn't come here have to explain details on who said this or that,so find your own boat,if you find this hard to do then get lost.

this thread is all about details and this is marks thread not your thread. you posted a bunch of gowdy stuff and I posted gowdy stuff from gowdy himself that refutes what you were tootin about gowdy.

[Crankbait]

Originally Posted by roper1

Were all 4 judges part of the renewals? That seems strange or is that part of the process? At any rate, it seems to me a renewal would get less scrutiny than the original application, just human nature.

the court works on a cycle, so one judge could have renewed it but unlikely. the case for the warrant is presented in a court like setting, and isn't like a regular court/judge where warrants are requested.

if you are a terrorist or engaging in espionage, it is likely that you'll be under surveillance

[JD848]

Originally Posted by Crankbait

the court works on a cycle, so one judge could have renewed it but unlikely. the case for the warrant is presented in a court like setting, and isn't like a regular court/judge where warrants are requested.

if you are a terrorist or engaging in espionage, it is likely that you'll be under surveillance

There are 11 judges that work on the fisa court ,they all serve a 7 year term and then are replaced,FISA court was started I believe in 1978 or 79,very few warrants are ever turn away by these judges specially when signed by top members in law enforcement.
In a case where there needs to be one signed in hurry it doesn't go to the court,it can be just signed by a judge from that court,they are spreed out across the country so not always is the same one in the fisa court building.

The only reason I spoke about Gowdy is that only him and Nunes broke down this unclassified fisa memo for the public to see,it along with a few DNC members who wanted to hold it back,so it's kinda hard to leave out who drafted it to make it unclassified ,this is what the thread is about.
For him to bias towards Mueller would be no better then what the FBI just did,so he approaches it in a legal manner to not jeopardize what's ahead.IN 2015, 1500 or so warrant's were signed by the fisa court,only one was rejected that year.This will also be looked at very closely going forwards.

[bessiedog]

Soo...... what we’re saying here is that this warrant got reviewed on an ongoing basis by various judges.... and they either were all ‘in on it’ .... or they all got bamboozled.

That’s super serious stuff. Extremely worrying.

Or.... I’ll let you deduce the ‘or’

So... ANY FBI guy can go buy a judge for a warrant?
Doesn’t the Fed have any way to scrutinize stuff like that before it goes to the corrupt judges..?

[2 Tollers]

Bessie, I am not sure that your terminology of "buy a judge" or "corrupt judges" is quite right in this case.

Both the FBI and DOJ have been seen as leaders in law enforcement for years. In this case both the Director and Deputy Director as well as a senior member of the DOJ had their hands in the application process. Perhaps influence and misleading would be terms to consider.

Also a renewal may be easier to defend to get that an original application. However in this case the application that was approved was by a judge with direct links back to a political party.

I see this whole mess as driving a wedge deeper into the divide of the American people. However if even half of what is being said is true on either side the issues of corruption in the FBI or collusion with foreign governments needs to be cleaned up. The only way for this to happen is full disclosure to the public.

[bessiedog]

Toller. This sounds like the application has at least seen many re-applications, hence we can conclude:

1. The investigation was started a while ago and
2. More than one judge HAD to have been either in collusion or fooled by a team of FBI people over a long period of time ..

That means that the careful constitutional and institutional checks and balances were high jacked quite a while ago and spans a number of people ( especially if warrent judges are rotated)


That takes some serious, long term, careful effort. Which I guess is possible since the govt executive has been practicing various ‘states of exeptionalism’ since ole Georgie declared his perpetual ‘War on Terror’ (lol)..... and this is what you get. Executive state exceptionalism run rampant.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLv...&v=sAO9YReZnJ8



If that’s the case..... well... our neighbors suuure got a big arse problem in their house.

Guess the swamp needs some draining.

Or......... it’s unlikely and (barring the full applications release) we’re being fed a distraction tactic.

Until we get the full poop.... better pull out Ockham’s Razor and stick this info into the proper bin.

[roper1]

Bessie, what do you make of McCabe lasting less than a day after a RARE visit to the hill by Wray on a Sunday?

[2 Tollers]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

Until we get the full poop.... better pull out Ockham’s Razor and stick this info into the proper bin.

Most likely you are correct on the bin for filing.

Personally I like to follow the ins and outs of these types of these political messes. It is to bad the day of investigative journalism has gone and we moved to sensationalism for headlines followed with quips. The press used to be the standard to bring information to the people and help hold the government accountable. Now not so much. That is for both sides as it seems to be a era of winners and losers - hence sides pushed and taken.

[stringer]

https://youtu.be/82_kdySxB3U

This should clear things up.

[2 Tollers]

New York Post article on the FBI and some clues on what was generated or held by senior people in the FBI that have direct impacts to what has been going on. Particularly the role played by McCabe on both the Clinton file and the Trump review.

https://nypost.com/2018/02/01/chris-...ng-up-the-fbi/

[bessiedog]

Originally Posted by roper1

Bessie, what do you make of McCabe lasting less than a day after a RARE visit to the hill by Wray on a Sunday?

If he’s guilty of something... then he should fry.
If someone at that level committed fraud... big breaks of the public trust require huge ass punishments. The framers of that constitution would demand it. Dont you think that such an act would fly in the face of everything the US was created for?

If he’s guilty of breaking and corrupting such checks and balances.... make an example of him.

I don’t have a clue why he quit early. How’s quitting early gonna help him if he’s guilty? .... unless he’s plannin a vacation to a ‘snowden’ locale....


I got no idea.

Ps... hey! stringman! Good ta see ya!

[markg]

If any of the people involved in the mess committed treason is capital punishment an option? Does trying to have a coup against a sitting president qualify for treason in this situation?

[roper1]

I haven't seen any of the talking heads use the word 'treason' but sure looks like some upper-level FBI & DOJ types are set to lawyer up.

[bessiedog]

Originally Posted by markg

If any of the people involved in the mess committed treason is capital punishment an option? Does trying to have a coup against a sitting president qualify for treason in this situation?

Ah.... ur makin a jump there.

Oh it’s be treason.... against the Constitution. Not the president.

Your timelines are mixed mark... no? Why?

[markg]

Thanks for the clarity. Trying to subvert an election is against the Constitution and the american people. Does this if true qualify? I know its a big if.

[bessiedog]

Originally Posted by markg

Thanks for the clarity. Trying to subvert an election is against the Constitution and the american people. Does this if true qualify? I know its a big if.

I’m fairly positive it is treason. They take an oath....


Shameful IF they did.

Just about as shameful if it’s a manufactured accusation.


None of this affair helps the US.

And China and Russia laugh.....

China turns another atoll into a ‘sovereign island’

Russia secured more of the Ukraine.....

Or there’s stuff to worry about alright..... this memo sure ain’t it.

[2 Tollers]

Mark there are two sets of timelines on this. First what is now coming out at as interference in the election process and using US agencies to spy on a candidate during the election. The second is the cover up actions and "insurance policy" once Trump was elected. In watching a number of the congressional briefings the word Treason has not been. Words around civil, criminal and contempt crimes seem to be the ones be tossed out.

It will be interesting to see how fast this is pushed through as mid term elections are a year away and delays could benefit some people / parties.

[elk396]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Run down I saw on the internet....

If you put all the pieces together here's what you get. The DNC rigs the Democratic Primary Election against Bernie Sanders so Hilliary can win the nomination. Obama's administration starts to request surveillance on Trump, his family, his transition team, and anyone associated with him. Donna Brazil gives Hilliary the questions to a debate. The DNC pays Christopher Steele to come up with a smear dossier about Trump. The mainstream media releases a taped conversation about Trump talking about grabbing women parts. After all this Trump still wins the General Election. Obama orders an investigation into Russia meddling in our elections. Obama changes Executive Order 12333 to allow more agencies to have access to surveillance data. The Democratic Party comes up with a scandal that Trump Colluded with Russia to win the election with no evidence or proof. This wild claim is backed up by the mainstream media. Obama hold overs start unmasking Trump's transition team and staff members then release the classified information to the mainstream media. Why? Because the DNC and the Obama administration colluded with the intelligence community to thwart Trump's campaign efforts to get him elected president. All this Russia collusion is an attempt to cover up the fact that the Obama administration, the intelligence community, the DNC, along with the mainstream media used our nations surveillance as a political tool to try to get Hilliary elected President. This makes Watergate look like a kindergarten play. Let that sink in.......

LC

Honestly hope someone responsible for this does some serious time, talk about crooked..

[2 Tollers]

Interesting discussion with Trey Gowdy on Face the Nation and his take on memo --- The Russia probe should continue, 5 people with questions on conduct, hopes this is a one of off in what was not in the application to the court --- information missing from the FISA application, FISA application would not have been approved without dossier, not responsibility of Judges to look for additional information - judges do not do independent research - judges rely on sworn credible information presented to them, FISA process sloppy -- carry on with Russia probe -- no evidence on collusion as yet but not complete on investigation -- finish this as well. Complete all three processes as separate functions, serious concerns over State Department involvement not yet made public.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfYVeXXI0z0

[JD848]

Trey knows he is dealing with bunch of crooks so he well not tell them what his intentions are .The defense does tell the prosecutor what his plans are or the way around.Every one is thinking political attacks he is thinking you do what you are doing and we will proceed with the way we want.He has never walked into a court room and said that person is guilty till all the facts are presented.He would never walk up and tell a jury that murder is a crime,they all ready know this,what the jury needs to hear are all the facts pertaining to the crime.Then the hammer comes down.

If you cancel the Mueller deal,then they spend endless hours working just for that just yelling back and forth,so let it go and we will move with who is guilty on this fisa stuff.The DNC delay every thing as much as possible.

I was not happy with a few things he had to say,but he knows better than to start jumping up and down telling them there all guilty which I think he has that put together already.The best TREY GOWDY speech is ,we make law.This was when Obama was doing exactly what the DNC have done.

There will be severe legal implications going forwards and he hasn't been hired yet to do so,politics are getting smaller by the day .Trey will if he is still around sit with Trump and the GOP before pointing fingers .All I know for sure that if you were in this matter you better lawyer up big time,cause there coming.
A vessel of rats in a sea of snitches is what the DNC is all about,will just wait and see who gets chucked under the bus and how many times the bus goes back and forth.For the ones that did this you can bet your last dollar,a few will pass the buck to save there lousy hides the further this goes.Takes a long time to drain a big swamp .

[Okotokian]

The Republican's got to release their side. Dems and the FBI say it's biased and leaves out important info. Let them release their side and let the American public decide. Seems fair to me.

[2 Tollers]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

The Republican's got to release their side. Dems and the FBI say it's biased and leaves out important info. Let them release their side and let the American public decide. Seems fair to me.

The Dem's memo has been leaked out to select media in advance of the review and approval process. Not sure how that would have happened So the official version to the public will still need to go through oversight review. It has been approved for release by the House Intelligence Committee and now the President has 5 days to review. Same standard as the House Intelligence Committee memo that was approved for release by the President.

FBI is still considering on a memo.

There has been no discussion on release of the full supporting documents to the FISA application which without open disclosure on these would still leave questions on truth of all memo's presented.

[Fish along]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

Can someone help here.....?
Trumps last tweet accused the FBI leadership and the upper investigators.
As far as I can tell, Mueller is the only non Trump appointed fbi leader.. top investigator.

Who else is left? Or is he just referring to Mueller. Does Mueller have democratic leanings?


Ps.... not surprised if the FBI was being political, it’s be very hard to keep an org unbiased.

How does one go about purging such an organization?

Your last question is my question as well,how to purge such an organization, which is in my opinion totally disrespectful of ordinary populace, a disgrace,worst of the worst in my opinion,worst than child molesters,totally undesirable people. And worst of all they will get away with it somehow.its not hard to believe there's no talk of Clinton anymore,hiding I guess ,people talk of scum ,this is scum, scum of the earth .

[bessiedog]

Originally Posted by Fish along

Your last question is my question as well,how to purge such an organization, which is in my opinion totally disrespectful of ordinary populace, a disgrace,worst of the worst in my opinion,worst than child molesters,totally undesirable people. And worst of all they will get away with it somehow.its not hard to believe there's no talk of Clinton anymore,hiding I guess ,people talk of scum ,this is scum, scum of the earth .

..... you passed judgement on them I guess.


You could be wrong...?

[2 Tollers]

Originally Posted by Fish along

Your last question is my question as well,how to purge such an organization, .

You have to let the process take its course. In the US, the Inspector General has considerably more power for investigation and recommendations for change that any body we have in Canada.

There are a few casualties on this already with Andrew McCabe for delaying the investigation on HC's emails. Others include 2 /3 more in the FBI and one in DOJ that have been reassigned. Some have been noted for further investigation.

Announcement on McCabe --- nice deal he got with the $2M pension but this may not be over for him.

http://www.businessinsider.com/doj-p...igation-2018-1

[cschache]

Senate Judiciary Committee (Chuck Grassley and Lindsey Graham)are releasing another investigative type memo late today (I believe) that's has brought to light that Clinton and DNC paid for and were feeding false allegations to the dossier's author Christopher Steele and many other findings, but of course the FBI and Rosenstein and Dems are trying to block and spin this information as not accurate. What a tangled web they have spun!

[JD848]

You could be a murderer a gangster the worst of the worst ,but nothing is worst than a child molester and I mean nothing ,a crime done to a child is a death sentence in any penn and crooked politicians get to stay at a half way house better than most homes..That's as far as I go.