Insurance on a new truck, $8500?!

[fish gunner]

Ive got a dollar on double identity . lol I was 18 had a job in a mill, could buy what I wanted cash in 86 . .but I couldnt affort to insure a vw.. so I rode a 550street bike till I could . 88 $ a year in BC on a 1000 $ bike the OP (TBD ) has already shown high risk accident probabilty saaays next one will be less than a year after new truck purchase.

[harrydude]

You will pay lots cause it's a ford. Don't do it. Lol

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by JohninAB

Just another example of the Alberta Advantage!

Kids in Lloydminster Alberta would get a post office box as the post office was on Sask side. Way more realistic insurance rates.

I will not even get into my rant on this subject.

Its not ony kids who do this....where do you think they learned it from

LC

[catnthehat]

I know a young fella who rolled his two year old , full load 1 ton Dura Max last winter.
Insurance pretty much doubled after that.
The truck was almost a right off, but not quite.
Cat

[The Elkster]

People insuring in the wrong province might think they are being smart and getting a good deal...Until they are in a serious accident and some basic investigation shows their insurance was set up under false pretenses and voided. Won't seem like such a big savings then. Nobody thinks an accident will happen to them but if it does that decision could be devastating in more ways than one.

[artie]

The neighbors kid who is now in his late twenties is still walking. He got in a big accident when in his late teens and is still paying the price. It's sad to see him come to visit his dad bringing the wife and a kid in a carrier He has to use city transit as he can't afford insurance with a young family.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by The Elkster

People insuring in the wrong province might think they are being smart and getting a good deal...Until they are in a serious accident and some basic investigation shows their insurance was set up under false pretenses and voided. Won't seem like such a big savings then. Nobody thinks an accident will happen to them but if it does that decision could be devastating in more ways than one.

That's a really good point. When you REALLY need to use that insurance, there is going to be scrutiny. Cause an devastating accident, get sued for millions, then see if some other province's insurance agency will pick up the tab? Not if they can find a legal way out of it. And fraud would be the way.

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by TBark

Spoken like an 18 yr old making a few bucks.
Like Elkster said, car salesmen love you guys.

TBark

Ah, good, just seen that you are a 4th PE, may not change things.
Show up for work and don't screw things up for yourself.
I'm a 3rd and company I work for has canned 4 young operators in past yr or so for improper conduct and attendance issues, 2 male and 2 female.

Stay cool.

when i was 18 i sold cars.

just tell young trades people that something is expensive and if you can't afford it i can show you the compact car. 75% of the time it was a truck they could barely afford just to prove they could

a fool and their money are easily parted

[scesfiremedic]

From the old adage "If I knew then what I know now" and if I were you, buy a beater, save your money and buy real estate. It's a much better investment!

[nekred]

As for profiling.... no right is being infringed upon....

Driving is a privilege not a right,

You cannot legally drive an uninsured vehicle....

However with insurance lets turn it around a little bit.... Here is the question, how much would you charge a young 18 year old with the typical 18 year old ego, that obviously has drive a testosterone to go out and get it done, but has already had an accident that cost HIM $6000.

Now he wants to buy a $50,000 vehicle, with lots of hp, and you have to charge him a monthly amount and in return you will cover him in the event he has an accident that is his fault (if not his fault then other insurance company pays) Including the event he is involved in major injury accident, or perish forbid a fatality, or maybe runs into a lambhourgini and writes it off....with his fault...

How much a year would you charge him?

Insurance companies use premiums from good drivers to pay off accidents from other drivers. In return they give good drivers a break in order to attract enough of them to pay for the hiccups. Good drivers will pay more in premiums than they will ever collect. Now to make things more fair and attract better drivers you give them a bit more of a break.

Then you track all sorts of statistics and sort them and determine who good and bad drivers will be. Because insurance companies are not allowed to out rightly refuse insurance what they do is by determining driver history and comparing to accident rates of others with same history they charge more... and because the same stats are shared between insurance companies and regulatory authorities they have similar analysis (underwriting)

Now that also gets coupled with the fact that most people stay with same insurer because it is less hassle to renew than get a different insurer then thy also look at loyalty so they actually give people a break for more time they are insured... especially as their history changes and the probability of an accident decreases.

Things like age, gender, geographical location, number of tickets etc. all have a bearing.

I can actually look at a drivers abstract and determine what that does to their probability of an accident in the next year is by using information provided by insurance companies.

Now back to my question with all this information what would you charge this young person per year and how much would it take for you to be comfortable with the risk...

For myself I would charge a lot more than $8500 per year!.... because in 10 years that is only $85,000 and..... what is his chance of being in a major collision where there is a bodily injury, perhaps even his own, where wage replacement would get paid out.... pretty easy to hit $1000000 on a claim....

[silverdoctor]

I have a problem with the "we all pay" attitude. I currently own an older Kia, early 40's, not married and have never had a claim against my insurance - yet i'm paying $1000 a year for the privilege of driving. Fair? Agent told me to get married if I want cheaper rates - like I have nothing to live for.

Do young men get a fair shake when it comes to insurance? We are always told that young men cause accidents - but yet, all the stats show "involved" in accidents. Someone rear ends me, I become a statistic of being "involved".

Then I read stuff like this and try to wrap my head around it. From:
http://www.tirf.ca/publications/PDF_..._Driving_8.pdf

As expected, there are more fatally injured 16-19 year old distracted drivers that are male than female. This reflects the distribution of driver fatalities in all collisions and all age groups. However, among 16-19 year old fatally injured drivers, a larger percentage of females are distracted than males. And within the 16-19 year old age category, more fatally injured distracted drivers are found among the older ages.

In driving around Edmonton, young women are clearly at the top of the pile when it comes to distracted driving - texting at the wheel. More often than not, I see young women involved in a rear end collision - so are young men getting a fair shake?

[mooseknuckle]

Yeah it's a bit of a crap shoot. My mom finally ditched the insurance guy she was with for like 20 years, basically doubled her rates. She said she had never had a claim before, he said exactly.... your due. No joke.

[diamonddave]

I like to see all these young guys up to their 80-90% debt load in times like these.
We are going to be in for a slow down in the patch, and its not going to be a 6month-1 year slow down.
There is a global slow down coming, and when these kids get all the toys taken by the bank a guy can pick them up nice and cheap!!!

[Fisherpeak]

Originally Posted by diamonddave

I like to see all these young guys up to their 80-90% debt load in times like these.
We are going to be in for a slow down in the patch, and its not going to be a 6month-1 year slow down.
There is a global slow down coming, and when these kids get all the toys taken by the bank a guy can pick them up nice and cheap!!!

I`m 55 years now,seen that at least 5 times in oil and logging.All the 60,000$ truck guys lost their rigs.I NEVER BUY NEW!!!
Shop around for a nice rig at 5 to 10 thousand,pay cash.Be nice to it and it will be good to you.You can get 10 more good years out of it while you are saving assloads of money to buy real things......like a house to live in.
My old man told me-do you want to live in a house or a truck?My most expensive vehicle is a `99 Chev Silverado I paid cash for 5 years ago.I paid off the mortgage on my house with what me and the wife saved from not paying $900 a month on car payments.
Actually,I`m just heading out to look at a 2005 ex cop car for winter driving.102,00 Kilometers with the whole scary bumper on it.$5,000.
My friends will hate me
Be smart,save your pennies.You will need them.Trust me,been there,done that.

[amosfella]

I keep collision and comp on my car. In the last few years, I know that the insurance company has paid me out a lot more to repair my car than I have paid in. All my collisions have been with the smaller wildlife variety. The insurance company keeps assigning full blame to the uninsured bunnies, coyotes, and foxes I keep hitting. Car is getting it's 4th new bumper cover installed in 6 years in December here. I live in a location where there are LOTS of wildlife hits. I seem to catch one of the smaller animals every year.
Collision on my car is an extra $238 a year. Never had to use it. Also, I drove semi for a few years. Over a million km so far without a collision. Insurance companies will look at that to if you have a professional class driver's license. Insurance with FULL coverage for me on a Mercedes S class is $822 a year. I'm 31. Surprisingly, my Mercedes cost less with full insurance to insure than my friend had to pay with a 93 or so chevy cav. He's only 2 years younger than me and hasn't had a collision where he was at fault.

[PGH]

So I noticed a trend here; a lot of observations that people are making which aren't explaining to them why they pay so much for insurance. Correlation is not causation, so stop connecting dots which really don't exist. One of the biggest reason your insurance is going up on auto is the cost of litigation has sky-rocketed for insurers who need to recover costs. Ever since the Sparrowhawk case, everyone is now claiming chronic pain, TMD, or other highly subjective medical conditions to escape the capped minor injury regulation - mostly on the advice of their lawyers. The minor injury cap is supposed to control legals costs of minor injuries - like whiplash - from getting out of hand. It may seem like insurers have deep-pockets to the public, but that's not how the business model works (its also the most regulated industry in Canada). Anyone here who runs a business knows that you have to recover costs somehow or else go bankrupt. For most businesses, the method of recovery takes place in the pricing of the product.

Although fatalities have declined in recent years, accidents have gone up, especially in Edmonton and northern Alberta. These accidents put pressure on our medical, legal and law enforcement systems which all require resources to operate. Insurance premiums have only one place to go when more accidents occur. I doubt we will see any premium declines (on average) in the next few years because our population growth is the highest in Canada. More people usually mean more collisions, but also increases the growing fraud and theft issues which don't help reduce premiums either.

And no, government run insurance is not going to solve this...

[ATF]

Originally Posted by PGH

So I noticed a trend here; a lot of observations that people are making which aren't explaining to them why they pay so much for insurance. Correlation is not causation, so stop connecting dots which really don't exist. One of the biggest reason your insurance is going up on auto is the cost of litigation has sky-rocketed for insurers who need to recover costs. Ever since the Sparrowhawk case, everyone is now claiming chronic pain, TMD, or other highly subjective medical conditions to escape the capped minor injury regulation - mostly on the advice of their lawyers. The minor injury cap is supposed to control legals costs of minor injuries - like whiplash - from getting out of hand. It may seem like insurers have deep-pockets to the public, but that's not how the business model works (its also the most regulated industry in Canada). Anyone here who runs a business knows that you have to recover costs somehow or else go bankrupt. For most businesses, the method of recovery takes place in the pricing of the product.

Although fatalities have declined in recent years, accidents have gone up, especially in Edmonton and northern Alberta. These accidents put pressure on our medical, legal and law enforcement systems which all require resources to operate. Insurance premiums have only one place to go when more accidents occur. I doubt we will see any premium declines (on average) in the next few years because our population growth is the highest in Canada. More people usually mean more collisions, but also increases the growing fraud and theft issues which don't help reduce premiums either.

And no, government run insurance is not going to solve this...

And yet they still make more than 10% per year in profit which amounts to billions.

http://www.ibc.ca/en/Need_More_Info/...h_Section1.pdf

[Flight01]

Pm sent

[PGH]

Originally Posted by ATF

And yet they still make more than 10% per year in profit which amounts to billions.

http://www.ibc.ca/en/Need_More_Info/...h_Section1.pdf

Nice find! That document is pretty interesting. Only $0.094 cents on the dollar for a profit margin? That's pretty low actually. I don't know too many businesses that could pull that off...

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by PGH

Nice find! That document is pretty interesting. Only $0.094 cents on the dollar for a profit margin? That's pretty low actually. I don't know too many businesses that could pull that off...

operating profit and financial statement profit is very different

we operate at 40% profit and always try to show zero profit for the end of the year

[mooseknuckle]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

operating profit and financial statement profit is very different

we operate at 40% profit and always try to show zero profit for the end of the year

X2 may have even shown a slight "loss" last year.

[DiabeticKripple]

I'm 20, bought a brand new fully loaded 2014 dodge 1500 sport crew cab. One speeding ticket on my license, $3300 a year.

You guys are getting hosed.

[blgoodbrand1]

You guys are getting hosed.[/QUOTE]


X2

[honda610]

I was young once and I could afford the truck but not the insurance. So I bought a mechanically sound 1995 F 150 extended cab for cash and it cost me 26 bucks a month for plpd insurance I put good tires on it and drove it till I was t boned by a welding truck. 8 years later. Man I miss that truck. With all the money I saved in insurance and truck payments I bought a new quad and could afford to hunt almost 60 days a fall. . I never bought a new truck till I was 27 years old and full insurance was around 800 bucks a year. Listen to the advice being given the old timers know the smart way to do things.... glad my dad beat me regular to make sure I listened lol good luck this fall.

[sewerrat]

For some reason these young guys that pay High insurance premiums, and still have money to buy a lift kit, big wheels, and big exhaust , and performance chip, and be the big dude.

[Huntsman]

I think we've all been there atleast I have.
The year was 1996 (24 yrs old), June, Chilliwack BC. I backed into a car in parking lot ( I sat and waited till owner came out). Same year, now in Edmonton, November.
Driving into Griesbach when it was still a base onto main entrance from 97 st, I take the corner too fast and slide into a newer Ford Expedition (BTW I'm driving an '85 Toyota 4x4) and take out front driver 1/4 panel and mirror. On base (Lancaster Park) Its now January, I slide thru a stop sign (in front of LTF), oncoming vehicle (Chev S10) swerves from left to miss me and hits an ILTIS. ILTIS has a scratch on bush guard, S-10 is pretty much a right off. All bang-ups insured with ICBC. Sell truck cant afford Ab insurance.
I go with out a veh for a year and use Yellow Cab or moutain bike to get around,'98 I Buy a used F150 and pay max insurance for
what seemed like a lifetime. All of my accident were my fault and I payed for it. All the accidents however were did not exceed what the Op's cost for his one.
I now have two veh, quad and house. All for a heckuva lot less than when I first started out.

[mich]

You can buy used junk and pay $$$$ to keep them running or buy new and make payments, costs the same IMO. The difference in insurance is 4 a year... that is a minor repair nowadays. more if you buy a newer POS diesel, never mind the down time

Your insurance will go down at 21, 25, and if you buy a house, get married etc.

My opinion is drive what you want..... within your budget

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by mich

You can buy used junk and pay $$$$ to keep them running or buy new and make payments, costs the same IMO.

I disagree. You can get a lot of $1000 dollar vehicles that will run for more than 1 month without repairs. IF it only lasts 1 month move onto the next which will last 7 months. Repairs may not be worth it at times, but it is most definitely cheaper.

[Fisherpeak]

Originally Posted by sewerrat

For some reason these young guys that pay High insurance premiums, and still have money to buy a lift kit, big wheels, and big exhaust , and performance chip, and be the big dude.

And it still won`t get you laid.

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by mich

You can buy used junk and pay $$$$ to keep them running or buy new and make payments, costs the same IMO. The difference in insurance is 4 a year... that is a minor repair nowadays. more if you buy a newer POS diesel, never mind the down time

Your insurance will go down at 21, 25, and if you buy a house, get married etc.

My opinion is drive what you want..... within your budget

The best value for dollar is a 3 year old vehicle with under 75K km on it. It has depreciated where you should be able to get a deal and pay a third of sticker price new off the lot, but it still has lots of miles and life left, still under drivetrain warranty in all probability, and it sure isn't a piece of junk. I've done this for the last 20 years, paid $10k cash for a 2001 E150 for work (bought in 04) and drove it for 8 years. Had 124k km on it when I bought it, a bit high but fleet maintained. I drove it for another 150k km (all those kms were hard city miles, doing service work), and then sold it for $2500. Cost me $7500 to operate for 8 years, less than a $1000 per year. My repair costs were: rear axle and bearing, $400, brakes as wear issue, fan belt ditto, and an alternator that set me back $250. Also had to change the battery. The gentleman I sold it to (who still works for me) has been driving it for 2 years since, and only recently had to spend another $400 on repairs as a couple studs broke.

That is value for money, but it may not 'impress the chicks'. My cost to insure yearly was under a grand with full coverage. Doing math on what I saved by not buying 3 new trucks in that same time period (because most people who buy new replace every 3 years it seems like, and also the most popular leasing period) and paying double the insurance plus interest on payments, I figure I'm ahead about $100,000 at the minimum, money that has been sunk into paying down my houses, one which I live in and one which I rent.

You can be smart about your money, and get ahead in life, and still drive a perfectly decent reliable vehicle with modest insurance rates. Or, as you say, drive what you want 'within your budget', which for most young men I have met means the most truck that they can possibly afford on their income that will impress the girls and stoke their ego.

And that is why when the patch slows down, these are the first boys to lose all their toys, and get bad credit, and all the other associated problems. And us old, dull, smart guys just quietly get ahead in life.

Now having said that, I have bought new vehicles in my life. My first one was when I was 42, a Toyota Venza that I paid cash for. I treated the wife and I to our first new vehicle. We still drive it and love it. And I just bought a new Toyota Yaris for my wife and kids to use around town, the first vehicle I ever didn't pay cash for. But at .9% financing over 84 months (total interest of just over $600 in 7 years I couldn't give myself a good enough reason to pay for it outright with cash (which I could have). And yes, it is nice to drive new vehicles, when you can really afford it. My insurance on either of those is just over a thousand a year.