Best bolt action caliber.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Don_Parsons

Heres some helpful tools.

Find the powder used to get the feet per-seconds going.
Click on "Resources" then "Data Reloading center.
https://imrpowder.com/#

That way you can find the given velocity of many bullet weights with each powder give or take the +/-


They use this BC chart to see the flight path of a given bullet over what distance at a given ft-per seconds.
http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.1.cgi

You will have to change the priamitors for your self.
The one that will pop up is a test load for my rifle coming up for next harvest season.

Once you catch on to adjusting them, your off to the races.

I'm """guessing""" there is 10.000 bullets of every make and model, then change the ft-per seconds along with other categories to calculate the trajectory.

It's just that simple

Don

You can calculate velocities, pressures, and trajectories with no actual testing with your firearm, and sometimes the actual results may even be reasonably close to the calculations.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Smokinyotes

So without going the custom route who makes a left hand 6.5cm in a true short action excluding savage. What i like about the 6.5x55 in the T3 action is the ability to seat your bullet "way out". I have some 3x times fired 6.5x55 lapua brass that has only ever been neck sized, primer pockets are like new and it chambers slick as butter.

My T3 isn't a true short action though, the magazine is spaced to allow for the 22-250 or 260rem bullet to fit. Bonus is owning these two rifles I can use the magazines interchangeably.

LC

[Xbolt7mm]

Originally Posted by Nyksta

There will be no difference in trajectory in 7mm-08 and 308. 140 gr 7mm-08 have the same sectional density and ballistic coefficient and muzzle velocities as 165 gr in 308. The only thing you are going to change is your recoil, which depending on your recoil pad choices may not even be a noticable difference.

If you went with a 130 gr 7mm-08 it would be exact same performance as 150 gr 308 win.

Do what you want, but dont believe that 7mm-08 has any better trajectory than 308. They are the same cartridge capacities, both pushing very close sized bullets.

270 win is going to be a faster flatter shooting cartridge than 308.

But they are not the same size at all. I would take the 30 cal over the 7 mm any day of the week especially if as you say the trajectories are the same. Based on your logic a 270 is the same as a 30-06

[Tactical Lever]

Originally Posted by Wisebuck

My blr won’t handle max reloads so and I may be wrong, but won’t reloading for a bolt action 7mm .08 be a better performer than my current loads for the .308? I don’t have a chronometer so I can’t tell you my current loads performance but if I recall correctly it’s 180 grain Nosler ballistic silver tips with 43 grains of imr powder. Not home right now so don’t remember the specific powder. Average loads I know cause max stripped a gear in it years ago ( another story)

Originally Posted by Nyksta

Im pretty sure your blr bolt lockup lugs should be taking the pressure of the load, not your lever gears. I dont have a blr though, someone else may know different.

All man-made things will have their faults. Hopefully you can find a gun and cartridge combo you trust and enjoy.

Nyksta is right, the BLR has a rotating bolt that locks up like a bolt action. Do you mean it was so tight when you fired that it was a struggle to eject the brass?

Just because you aren't using the "max" amount of powder doesn't mean you aren't hitting those maximum velocities. Velocity follows powder burn characteristics, case capacity and pressure fairly closely. If you had a chronograph, you would be able to approximate where "maximum" is by velocity achieved.

[Pathfinder76]

This thread is painful to watch.

[Don_Parsons]

.264 bullet 147gr at 500M = 1394 ft-lbs energy

.308 bullet 168gr at 500m = 1409 ft-lbs energy.

This is calculated using s pac-cor 24" barrel shooting match grade bullets from Hornady.

There is always +/- in all calculations

Over all they are pretty close.

Don

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by chuck

This thread is painful to watch.

You have an option ...

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Salavee

You have an option ...

Thank heavens.

[Don_Parsons]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

You can calculate velocities, pressures, and trajectories with no actual testing with your firearm, and sometimes the actual results may even be reasonably close to the calculations.

Yes, there is always +/- variables

[Nyksta]

Originally Posted by Don_Parsons

.264 bullet 147gr at 500M = 1394 ft-lbs energy

.308 bullet 168gr at 500m = 1409 ft-lbs energy.

This is calculated using s pac-cor 24" barrel shooting match grade bullets from Hornady.

There is always +/- in all calculations

Over all they are pretty close.

Don

The amount of times this "energy beyond 500 meters distance" comparison comes up is hilarious. I dont know anyone who consistently shoots animals at 500 meters. The math calculation that a high bc skinny light bullet can eventually catch up for energy beyond 500 meters is irrelevant. 500 meters is typically too far for most people to shoot big game no matter the cartridge. 500 meters is the first instance for 6.5 creedmore to begin being better than 308 win for energy. If it is a comparison of energy, how about the fact that 308 has more energy for all shots before 500 meters. Beyond 500 meters they are both starting to lack the required energy and speed to properly kill big game. Go do your math to shoot your 1000m paper all you want. Hunting is usually closer than 200 meters. And i have yet to meet anyone in person that has killed game beyond 450 meters.

You have an interest in a light recoiling gun, then go ahead and get a skinnier calibre shorter cartridge, short story: you are chopping your energy for typical hunting distances.

[Nyksta]

Originally Posted by Xbolt7mm

But they are not the same size at all. I would take the 30 cal over the 7 mm any day of the week especially if as you say the trajectories are the same. Based on your logic a 270 is the same as a 30-06

140gr 7mm-08 and 165 gr 308 win have the exact same velocities bc's and trajectory. 7mm-08 is less recoil and less energy.

the 270 is lighter bullets, and different powders than the 3006. It has less recoil and less energy, but it is a good popular option if 3006 was too much kick for someone

Heres my take on cartridges.

1. 7mmRemMag my opinion is the best shooter of all cartridges, but too big for me.
2. 3006 kicks harder than i enjoy in my light rifles
3. 308 win perfect recoil and i like short action
4. 270 win same recoil as 308 , a bit flatter shooting, but the skinner calibre drops its hole size ability and id rather go short action
5. 7mm-08 better recoil, nice but ill stick with the more popular 308 since i can do that recoil
6. 25-06 pretty cool, but my opinion would go to 270 win if i was to do long action.
7. 6.5 creedmore seems nice but too rare and im comfortable with more recoil so ill take higher energy of 7mm-08 or 308
8. 243 win. Super small recoil. Great for that purpose.

Get the biggest cartridge you can comfortably enjoy

[Wisebuck]

Originally Posted by Tactical Lever

Nyksta is right, the BLR has a rotating bolt that locks up like a bolt action. Do you mean it was so tight when you fired that it was a struggle to eject the brass?

Just because you aren't using the "max" amount of powder doesn't mean you aren't hitting those maximum velocities. Velocity follows powder burn characteristics, case capacity and pressure fairly closely. If you had a chronograph, you would be able to approximate where "maximum" is by velocity achieved.

Yes. In finally getting action open I broke a tooth off the spur gear that moves rotating bolt rearward. That told me my load was too hot having caused a stuck case. Plus primer was flattened badly.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Don_Parsons

.264 bullet 147gr at 500M = 1394 ft-lbs energy

.308 bullet 168gr at 500m = 1409 ft-lbs energy.

This is calculated using s pac-cor 24" barrel shooting match grade bullets from Hornady.

There is always +/- in all calculations

Over all they are pretty close.

Don

147gr hornady ELDX from a 6.5 creed = 1428 @ 500yds

168gr hornady A-max from a 308 = 1261 @ 500yds

Right from hornady's web page.

Just sayin.

https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/r...r-eld-match#!/

https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/r...68-gr-a-max#!/

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Nyksta

500 meters is the first instance for 6.5 creedmore to begin being better than 308 win for energy.

It actually starts before 300yds. Up to that distance there is no question either the 308 or Creedmoor are both capable of clean killing power.

PS, I have killed elk, moose, and deer over 450m.

[Coiloil37]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

So you realize that at 500yds the 147gr Creedmoor has more energy than the 165gr 308?

Even at 400yds the Creedmoor will have more energy.

Are you guys willfully ignoring or oblivious to the fact that energy isn't what kills animals?
Cherry picking useless metrics that favor your agenda doesn't make them universal truths.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Coiloil37

Are you guys willfully ignoring or oblivious to the fact that energy isn't what kills animals?
Cherry picking useless metrics that favor your agenda doesn't make them universal truths.

Cherry picking? Hardly. I used the exact 2 bullets Don posted, sheesh.

Please tell me what kills?

Let me guess...... 30cal?

[SlightlyDistracting]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Cherry picking? Hardly. I used the exact 2 bullets Don posted, sheesh.

Please tell me what kills?

Let me guess...... 30cal?

[Coiloil37]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Cherry picking? Hardly. I used the exact 2 bullets Don posted, sheesh.

Please tell me what kills?

Let me guess...... 30cal?

You've made reference to energy multiple times like it's the end all, be all.

What kills animals? For the purpose of this thread, putting holes through an animals vitals. The size and length of that hole isn't to be discounted and larger, longer wound channels typically produce more effecient kills/ blood trails.
On a broadside shot if both bullets achieved a pass through the length is fixed, the diameter however isn't.
Sure we can adjust the type of bullet we use to give us a different wound channel but you can't make a 6mm behave like a 45 cal. Frontal diameter is a useful killing metric.
Sectional density is useful for predicting penetration. However the numbers are out the window once the bullet starts to expand. That said, mass is a useful metric for judging penetration and I would put my money on a 165 grain vs a 140 grain bullet of the same type achieving superior penetration (between the two).

[takeiteasybird]

I'm just waiting for someone to bring up hydrostatic shock

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Coiloil37

You've made reference to energy multiple times like it's the end all, be all.

What kills animals? For the purpose of this thread, putting holes through an animals vitals. The size and length of that hole isn't to be discounted and larger, longer wound channels typically produce more effecient kills/ blood trails.
On a broadside shot if both bullets achieved a pass through the length is fixed, the diameter however isn't.
Sure we can adjust the type of bullet we use to give us a different wound channel but you can't make a 6mm behave like a 45 cal. Frontal diameter is a useful killing metric.
Sectional density is useful for predicting penetration. However the numbers are out the window once the bullet starts to expand. That said, mass is a useful metric for judging penetration and I would put my money on a 165 grain vs a 140 grain bullet of the same type achieving superior penetration (between the two).

A hole through the lungs, whether it's a 6mm or 9mm with definitely kill what ever it hits, no questions. Bullet selection has more to do with killing critters than caliber.

In real world terms, there is no animal in North America that a 308 can kill that a 6.5 Creedmoor can't, however at farther distances, where 99% of hunters are out of their comfort zone, the Creedmoor will have more speed and energy to get the job done.

I shot a moose this fall at 250yds with a 140gr bullet and it was down dead within 20yds. I guarantee if it was a 165gr 30 cal bullet it wouldn't have made one lick of difference.

I don't think that a 6.5 Creedmoor is the ultimate killing machine, but I really do get a kick out of the guys who think you need a 30cal in order to make a clean kill. Any big game bullet given the recommended speed to preform as intended will make a clean kill if put in the right place, 6mm or 9mm.

[Wisebuck]

A cannon ball of 500 cal at 100 ft/sec will surely kill as effective I just don’t like carrying around that damn 400 lb cannon!!! Just can’t be very stealthy. 🤪
Honestly guys I’m content with my blr .308 but I’m interested in a bolt action, perhaps a t3x so I can have the stainless steel Camo stocked “toy” that I can sit at my reloading bench creating rounds for. Recoil is a consideration, round availability not so much.

Many thanks to the replies I’ve got some shopping to do. It’ll be Fun getting to look at and “fondle” a few different brands and makes of rifles.

[JD848]

Originally Posted by Wisebuck

A cannon ball of 500 cal at 100 ft/sec will surely kill as effective I just don’t like carrying around that damn 400 lb cannon!!! Just can’t be very stealthy. ��

Tree stand and drop it.

[Xbolt7mm]

Originally Posted by takeiteasybird

I'm just waiting for someone to bring up hydrostatic shock

Lol

[Xbolt7mm]

Originally Posted by Nyksta

140gr 7mm-08 and 165 gr 308 win have the exact same velocities bc's and trajectory. 7mm-08 is less recoil and less energy.

the 270 is lighter bullets, and different powders than the 3006. It has less recoil and less energy, but it is a good popular option if 3006 was too much kick for someone

Heres my take on cartridges.

1. 7mmRemMag my opinion is the best shooter of all cartridges, but too big for me.
2. 3006 kicks harder than i enjoy in my light rifles
3. 308 win perfect recoil and i like short action
4. 270 win same recoil as 308 , a bit flatter shooting, but the skinner calibre drops its hole size ability and id rather go short action
5. 7mm-08 better recoil, nice but ill stick with the more popular 308 since i can do that recoil
6. 25-06 pretty cool, but my opinion would go to 270 win if i was to do long action.
7. 6.5 creedmore seems nice but too rare and im comfortable with more recoil so ill take higher energy of 7mm-08 or 308
8. 243 win. Super small recoil. Great for that purpose.

Get the biggest cartridge you can comfortably enjoy

That’s a good summary, it works for me, I just don’t like the short actions, but it’s just a preference, no real reason, I do really dislike the 243 though, except for coyotes.

[SlightlyDistracting]

Originally Posted by Wisebuck

A cannon ball of 500 cal at 100 ft/sec will surely kill as effective I just don’t like carrying around that damn 400 lb cannon!!! Just can’t be very stealthy. 🤪
Honestly guys I’m content with my blr .308 but I’m interested in a bolt action, perhaps a t3x so I can have the stainless steel Camo stocked “toy” that I can sit at my reloading bench creating rounds for. Recoil is a consideration, round availability not so much.

Many thanks to the replies I’ve got some shopping to do. It’ll be Fun getting to look at and “fondle” a few different brands and makes of rifles.

See, hes going to get a creedmoor.

[Coiloil37]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

A hole through the lungs, whether it's a 6mm or 9mm with definitely kill what ever it hits, no questions. Bullet selection has more to do with killing critters than caliber.

In real world terms, there is no animal in North America that a 308 can kill that a 6.5 Creedmoor can't, however at farther distances, where 99% of hunters are out of their comfort zone, the Creedmoor will have more speed and energy to get the job done.

I shot a moose this fall at 250yds with a 140gr bullet and it was down dead within 20yds. I guarantee if it was a 165gr 30 cal bullet it wouldn't have made one lick of difference.

I don't think that a 6.5 Creedmoor is the ultimate killing machine, but I really do get a kick out of the guys who think you need a 30cal in order to make a clean kill. Any big game bullet given the recommended speed to preform as intended will make a clean kill if put in the right place, 6mm or 9mm.

This is true. The caveat is that it has to get in the right place. Couple things play a roll here but one of them is what has to be penetrated before the bullet arrives in the lungs or heart. Shoulders are an obvious issue but depending on the angle of the animal so is the gutbag. I'm not interested in debating the moral issues of taking quartering shots. I will say that there are shots that you can't take with small caliber, light bullets that can be made with bigger, heavier bullets.

You asked why anyone would shoot a magnum at less then 400 yards. Personally so I can take raking shots and hit vitals. I don't want to launch a 140 grain bullet at 3300 fps but I do launch 225's at 2950 from my 338 and I know I can take more shots with that combo then a 140 at 3k from my .270. When a bull elk is quartering on at 300 yards I don't have a problem putting him down with a .338 but if I was packing my .270 I would have to wait for him to give me a better angle. If he didn't give me the right angle I have to pass.

You yourself had an issue of a poor shot, poor expansion, deflected bullet or possibly something else altogether but whatever it was, coupled with bad luck it cost you a big deer. The logical conclusion would be to either take better shots, put an insurance shot in a downed animal or get a bigger hammer. Instead your going smaller and smaller on the hammer and I can't comment on the choice of shots.

Hunting isn't fly fishing. There's no thrill in using the lightest gear possible to do the job. I feel we owe it to our quarry to use the best tool available to us that we can comfortably wield.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Coiloil37

This is true. The caveat is that it has to get in the right place. Couple things play a roll here but one of them is what has to be penetrated before the bullet arrives in the lungs or heart. Shoulders are an obvious issue but depending on the angle of the animal so is the gutbag. I'm not interested in debating the moral issues of taking quartering shots. I will say that there are shots that you can't take with small caliber, light bullets that can be made with bigger, heavier bullets.

You asked why anyone would shoot a magnum at less then 400 yards. Personally so I can take raking shots and hit vitals. I don't want to launch a 140 grain bullet at 3300 fps but I do launch 225's at 2950 from my 338 and I know I can take more shots with that combo then a 140 at 3k from my .270. When a bull elk is quartering on at 300 yards I don't have a problem putting him down with a .338 but if I was packing my .270 I would have to wait for him to give me a better angle. If he didn't give me the right angle I have to pass.

You yourself had an issue of a poor shot, poor expansion, deflected bullet or possibly something else altogether but whatever it was, coupled with bad luck it cost you a big deer. The logical conclusion would be to either take better shots, put an insurance shot in a downed animal or get a bigger hammer. Instead your going smaller and smaller on the hammer and I can't comment on the choice of shots.

Hunting isn't fly fishing. There's no thrill in using the lightest gear possible to do the job. I feel we owe it to our quarry to use the best tool available to us that we can comfortably wield.

Just for the record, on that regretful day I was using a 300WSM. What I learned that day, besides not to assume the animal is dead because it's not moving for 5 minutes, is that bullet selection is more important than caliber or cartridge, obviously to a certain extent.

My primary hunting rifle is a 280ai when I'm out on a hunt that could see me shooting at an elk at 600yds, but if deer is my main target with a chance of elk, I'll have no problem packing my 6.5 Creedmoor. I'm not saying it's a better choice than a 338 mag or a 308 win, but my 280's have proven to be extremely effective killers on moose, elk, and deer at some fairly long ranges. I don't doubt the 30cal's abilities, but I see a lot of guys who have never shot a 6.5 really underestimating the 6.5's abilities.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Wisebuck

Well thank you to all the really great responses. I’m thinking on leaning towards the 7mm.08. Can neck down my brass and benefit from slightly straighter trajectory. Plus stay with short action. Ima short guy. Lol. Bullet weights are my next question. Any thoughts?

140gr pills.

[Pathfinder76]

I’ve seen a lot of game killed with 120’s in the 7-08

[elk09]

my vote goes to the .280 Remington and .280 Ackley improved with 160 grain reloads - great BC and energy retention - recoil is good

have a Kimber select grade in .280 Ackley and it shoots the 160 accubonds into 3/4 inch and it does not seem to kick much in that rifle at a little over seven pounds with scope