Bow River Fisheries Education Session (very important)

[CardiacCowboy]

There is an important webinar on Oct 3 on the bow river fishery. From my understanding of the data there is a concern that the angling pressure (they call effort) and fish caught is unsustainable. They want to reduce the people fishing (effort) or amount of fish caught. The data shows that during the summer every fish (total amount of fish in river) is caught and released 4 times.

Info and registration here: https://mywildalberta.ca/fishing/fis...t/default.aspx

Results of 2018 survey in above link

Recent video on bow from fisheries https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dxwRCQvpiQ

Short article that outlines the bases of the meeting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dxwRCQvpiQ

So what do you guys think? Assuming that something has to be done, what would you suggest?

I suggested posting more of those signs you see at some fisheries with regs and report a poacher info with in the city. I see too many city people fishing the bow with no license and no idea of regs. Commonly these are younger or older anglers that don't need license so don't know the regs. Also informing the general public of regs would also increase the tips to stop intentional poachers.

It has been suggested before to make parts of the bow fly fish only. I am opposed to this. It would be effective but restrict access to many.

I would support the introduction of barbless and single hook requirement. This would make only a slight difference. There won't be less fish caught but might help mortality. I caught over 100 trout in bow this summer and knowly killed 4. Maybe 1 would have been saved by the requirements. However I mostly fish barbless (unless I forget to pinch) and am experienced so releasing a fish safely so easy. 3 were smaller fish were hook pierced brain and other was larger fish that took hook in gill and too much damage done in landing the fish.

Thoughts?

[Bow flyman]

I also caught over 100 trout out of the Bow this past season. Even though most were caught and released on small flies, I killed at least 2 from hooks that got in the gills. One was a nice 15 inch rainbow that took a stonefly very deep in the throat, and couldn't be saved. This one bothered me a lot, because a fish this size in the Nw stretch is at least 3 years old or more. As a result, I support any consultation that reduces angling pressure on this fishery. Far too many people fish the river during the season. Our best pools in the Nw stretch are fished every single day of the summer. I will personally be reducing my angling effort next season by at least 50%. I feel that voluntarily limiting time on the river, as an experienced and effective fly fisherman, can make a difference if that is what it takes to help recover the fishery.

[CardiacCowboy]

I have read about places in the states where there are closures of fisheries on certain days of the week or times. This might be an option.

[I’d rather be outdoors]

I wonder if the increase in pressure coincides with COVID. Might be worth not overreacting unless it becomes a trend over the next few years. The outdoors in general was pressured more because inside activities are restricted. Should be less of an issue next year.

[flyrodfisher]

A few thoughts/comments;
1) I'm not sure why AE wants everyone to REGISTER for every survey, webinar, etc that they put on....and as such, I will not be doing it

2) With regard to not "knowing the regs"...And I know there is no excuse for an angler not taking the time to read the regs...but...the AE online licensing system has supported that because folks are no longer handed a hard copy of the regs at time of purchase. Many don't take the time to download...or read....those that do, are generally not the anglers we need to worry about...

3) Yes, there IS mortality with catch and release, with barbless and with flyfishing only...to think otherwise is foolish. The mortality rate is however much lower than with other angling methods

4)If a resource is under significant pressure..ie if in a fishery, the angling pressure/fish caught is unsustainable...the first thing that needs to be eliminated or restricted is any activity that "profits" off of that resource.
I know this comment will make the blood of all the guides boil...but, when an individual or corporation undertakes an activity for profit that pays no compensation to "use" that resource and furthermore when that resource becomes depleted at the expense of the recreational user...something has to give...
Not knocking guides here...I have been one and know many personally.
Guides and recreational fishers have cohabited in relative harmony on the Bow for decades but, now the fishery, due to various reasons/factors, has changed.

Bowflyman has stated he will voluntarily reduce his angling effort on the Bow by 50% next year...do you think many guides will be doing the same?

In saying that, there are numerous other options available that may be used in conjunction with the above...total closure, river use/stamp fees, rod day allocations, time closures, angling/method restrictions, etc

Originally Posted by Bow flyman

I will personally be reducing my angling effort next season by at least 50%. I feel that voluntarily limiting time on the river, as an experienced and effective fly fisherman, can make a difference if that is what it takes to help recover the fishery.

I commend you for your conviction.

[CardiacCowboy]

Good points....I am going to play devils advocate on some just for discussions sake

2.Never thought of that. I get license online, download regs, then get a couple paper regs at ct that I give way as needed. Like you say I am not the one you need to worry about. I have run into multiple people on the river who legit admitted to breaking bait and retention rules because they didn't know. I know that is not an excuse. They thanked me and believe they will follow rules now. Having general public informed would help as well, there are thousands of eyes and phones on the paths and might discourage rule breakers.

3. Agreed this might not make much difference. The Bow in the city is a unique situation with many casual angler fishing close to home that would never fish otherwise. Single and barbless might not make much of a difference on mortality with us seasoned anglers but might be huge to those that have never or rarely handled or released a fish. Although I am opposed to such a move fly fish only rules would eliminate most of these casual anglers. Less people fishing, less fish being caught, less mortality.

4. This one is tricky. What has greater economic impact 1) General public that buy license and gear 2)Guides who buy license, pay income tax on income from fishing, mantain/buy boats gear 3)combined with 2) destination fishers that come to only fish the bow. Hotels, meals, guides, gear, travel

1) Probably has the greater overall impact 2and3) Has much greater impact if you look at money spent per fish caught or hour fished

Never thought of the guides before. Do they need a special license? Maybe they need to be limited. I fish bow very often but limited to shore fishing. I rarely get skunked but usually get only 1 trout from a few hours on the bow. I have only hit 5 trout in a day a handful of times. With the sheer amount of water the guildes cover in boats they catch more fish in one day then I do in a month or more.

If you watched the video it is interesting they make the point they can only take actions that 1) Limit the fish being caught 2)limit the people fishing (pressure)

Originally Posted by flyrodfisher

A few thoughts/comments;
1) I'm not sure why AE wants everyone to REGISTER for every survey, webinar, etc that they put on....and as such, I will not be doing it

2) With regard to not "knowing the regs"...And I know there is no excuse for an angler not taking the time to read the regs...but...the AE online licensing system has supported that because folks are no longer handed a hard copy of the regs at time of purchase. Many don't take the time to download...or read....those that do, are generally not the anglers we need to worry about...

3) Yes, there IS mortality with catch and release, with barbless and with flyfishing only...to think otherwise is foolish. The mortality rate is however much lower than with other angling methods

4)If a resource is under significant pressure..ie if in a fishery, the angling pressure/fish caught is unsustainable...the first thing that needs to be eliminated or restricted is any activity that "profits" off of that resource.
I know this comment will make the blood of all the guides boil...but, when an individual or corporation undertakes an activity for profit that pays no compensation to "use" that resource and furthermore when that resource becomes depleted at the expense of the recreational user...something has to give...
Not knocking guides here...I have been one and know many personally.
Guides and recreational fishers have cohabited in relative harmony on the Bow for decades but, now the fishery, due to various reasons/factors, has changed.

Bowflyman has stated he will voluntarily reduce his angling effort on the Bow by 50% next year...do you think many guides will be doing the same?

In saying that, there are numerous other options available that may be used in conjunction with the above...total closure, river use/stamp fees, rod day allocations, time closures, angling/method restrictions, etc




I commend you for your conviction.

[Jayhad]

Originally Posted by flyrodfisher

4)If a resource is under significant pressure..ie if in a fishery, the angling pressure/fish caught is unsustainable...the first thing that needs to be eliminated or restricted is any activity that "profits" off of that resource.
I know this comment will make the blood of all the guides boil...but, when an individual or corporation undertakes an activity for profit that pays no compensation to "use" that resource and furthermore when that resource becomes depleted at the expense of the recreational user...something has to give...
Not knocking guides here...I have been one and know many personally.
Guides and recreational fishers have cohabited in relative harmony on the Bow for decades but, now the fishery, due to various reasons/factors, has changed.

Bowflyman has stated he will voluntarily reduce his angling effort on the Bow by 50% next year...do you think many guides will be doing the same?

I agree with your thoughts on this, however there hasn't been a jurisdiction in North America that has chosen the resource over the guides. I as well have guided, and I saw this happen in BC in the late 80s to early 90.

If history has taught us anything, changes will be made, the general public and resource will pay the bill and shops and outfitters will be better off. For example the classified waters system in BC was set up in the guise of protecting the resource, how does paying guides to fish help the resource?

I personally have been seeing the largest trout I've seen in 20 years, I have had slow fishing and I feel there are less but the trout caught are larger. I wonder if there is an observable change in biomass.

I also question the biologists, I don't put much faith in the government employed biologists. The last straw for me was when SRD changed regulations to open Burnt Timber on April 1st. The reason was due to 3 students on a 2 day electro-fishing float trip finding zero, zero cutthroat trout or bull trout. That's impossible.

Why is there no questioning of the destruction of the riparian environment bankside caused by the government canalising the Bow from bearspaw down, for flood mitigation? Anyone else notice the massive fall off of bugs since this?

I'm not saying the Bow cannot be made better, however anglers aren't the issue in this case, that said limiting our usage is always a positive.

[I’d rather be outdoors]

Originally Posted by flyrodfisher

A few thoughts/comments;
1) I'm not sure why AE wants everyone to REGISTER for every survey, webinar, etc that they put on....and as such, I will not be doing it

2) With regard to not "knowing the regs"...And I know there is no excuse for an angler not taking the time to read the regs...but...the AE online licensing system has supported that because folks are no longer handed a hard copy of the regs at time of purchase. Many don't take the time to download...or read....those that do, are generally not the anglers we need to worry about...

3) Yes, there IS mortality with catch and release, with barbless and with flyfishing only...to think otherwise is foolish. The mortality rate is however much lower than with other angling methods

4)If a resource is under significant pressure..ie if in a fishery, the angling pressure/fish caught is unsustainable...the first thing that needs to be eliminated or restricted is any activity that "profits" off of that resource.
I know this comment will make the blood of all the guides boil...but, when an individual or corporation undertakes an activity for profit that pays no compensation to "use" that resource and furthermore when that resource becomes depleted at the expense of the recreational user...something has to give...
Not knocking guides here...I have been one and know many personally.
Guides and recreational fishers have cohabited in relative harmony on the Bow for decades but, now the fishery, due to various reasons/factors, has changed.

Bowflyman has stated he will voluntarily reduce his angling effort on the Bow by 50% next year...do you think many guides will be doing the same?

In saying that, there are numerous other options available that may be used in conjunction with the above...total closure, river use/stamp fees, rod day allocations, time closures, angling/method restrictions, etc




I commend you for your conviction.

Feels like if it’s a community problem, than a community solution is in order & that includes guides.

A more whoistic study is required to see contributing factors beyond Fishing pressure. It’s not right to just single this out in my view. The picture is incomplete. So, fishing pressure declines, fish pop continues to decline, then what?

[CardiacCowboy]

Originally Posted by I’d rather be outdoors

I wonder if the increase in pressure coincides with COVID. Might be worth not overreacting unless it becomes a trend over the next few years. The outdoors in general was pressured more because inside activities are restricted. Should be less of an issue next year.

Actually data sets are pre Covid.

[Anomaly85]

Originally Posted by CardiacCowboy

I have read about places in the states where there are closures of fisheries on certain days of the week or times. This might be an option.

I would be worried the closure would shift pressure to the other nearby rivers. Instead of fishing the bow, everyone would hit the Sheep, highwood, and Oldman hard.