Indigenous Nuisance grizzly management in Alberta

[MooseRiverTrapper]

Why not encourage our Indigenous hunters to do some grizzly control in key areas?

[Noring1]

Originally Posted by MooseRiverTrapper

Why not encourage our Indigenous hunters to do some grizzly control in key areas?

A friend up north West of Grande Prairie had a bunch of bears killing calves on his ranch. He’s tried for two years to get a couple FN “harvesters” to come out and help thin the herd so to speak. Can’t seem to get any to show up….

[fordtruckin]

I don't know of many Native Americans that would hunt griz as they hold them sacred.

[roper1]

Going to have to tread very carefully here, fellas.

I've edited the title to more accurately reflect the intention but these threads tend to go south fast.

Thanks

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by fordtruckin

I don't know of many Native Americans that would hunt griz as they hold them sacred.

That depends on the band beliefs regarding bears vary

But to the original question it’s not the answer

[MooseRiverTrapper]

Originally Posted by Noring1

A friend up north West of Grande Prairie had a bunch of bears killing calves on his ranch. He’s tried for two years to get a couple FN “harvesters” to come out and help thin the herd so to speak. Can’t seem to get any to show up….

Incentive may be needed?

[Dubious]

Why not just open a draw season. Who says the native boys arn’t doing it already and can’t keep up with the demand.

[338wea]

^x2

[Dewey Cox]

Edit...
That could get took the wrong way...

[Grizzly Adams1]

Originally Posted by fordtruckin

I don't know of many Native Americans that would hunt griz as they hold them sacred.

Acquaintance works at a local reserve. They had a case where a black bear got into a house and terrified the family, who hid in a bed room. No one was willing to do the obvious, because it might be somebody's ancestor and it would reflect poorly on the assassin . F& W got the call, no end of bear problems on that reserve.

Grizz

[reddeerhunter]

One problem I would see is having to keep the meat as one(native card holder) can chuck the hide but have to keep the protein. Not sure a rotten meat infused grizz would be great table fare.

[skidderman]

Not sure why they would do it if no benefit to them.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by reddeerhunter

One problem I would see is having to keep the meat as one(native card holder) can chuck the hide but have to keep the protein. Not sure a rotten meat infused grizz would be great table fare.

Interior grizzlies diet still consists of a lot more berries and vegetation than meat

I have eaten multiple spring mountain grizzly and they tasted just fine. Just like black bear it all depends on their diet and if you get one that eats a lot of nasty stuff it’s not going to be good

It was very common for us to keep the grizzly meat even though we didn’t have too during BCs grizzly hunt. The only grizzly we refused to eat was a bear my buddy shot that had a well known history of eating black bears. That bear stunk of rotten meat so badly we couldn’t bring ourselves to try it

[kingrat]

Well grizzly just sold at the fur auction for 2000$ us so that might be alittle bonus.

[Pathfinder76]

Oh it’s happening. Particularly by those who are partial descendants.

[elkhunter11]

Personally, I would not encourage this for two reasons, one, it would remove a key benefit, to reinstate the grizzly hunt here, and two, it would give some people the idea that we should leave all game management to aboriginal hunters.

[landowner]

In my area , some natives have done a good job of helping control bad bears. But not every native wants to. I’ve been told it depends on the clan within the band whether brother bear is sacred or not.

[Pathfinder76]

Yes, it is absolutely happening and is the reason we will never see a Grizzly hunt in Alberta again.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by landowner

In my area , some natives have done a good job of helping control bad bears. But not every native wants to. I’ve been told it depends on the clan within the band whether brother bear is sacred or not.

Please Gentlemen,

All Animals are Sacred.

Whether or not a Person will or can kill a particular species of Animal is based on Individual circumstance such as Clan, Ceremonial obligations, Spiritual connections, and particularly modern peer pressure.

As with all Traditional actions, modern community views often conflate new perspectives with Old. It is very difficult to firmly hold onto the Old ways.

I've been asked to deal with nuisance animals on Reserves because no one from the Reserve was willing to kill a specific animal.
The concept of "Sacred" is often used by those that simply don't know the Old ways, and are willing to satisfy their New view and desire by making things up.

"We are ***** People, We don't kill Bears, or Beavers, or *****...."
Believe it or not, this is actually most often a NEW perspective, and often promoted by those that don't like killing, pressuring others to not kill, manipulating "Tradition" to achieve a personal desire.


Yes, Anti-hunting sentiment is at work influencing Indigenous tradition too....

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by Pathfinder76

Yes, it is absolutely happening and is the reason we will never see a Grizzly hunt in Alberta again.

Your biggest opposition is not FN you are actually up against highly funded anti hunting(not always opposed to all hunting) organizations. They lobby government non stop, donate to parties for support, and collect money from average people all the way up to celebrities. They are often on an international level when it comes to fundraising. Theses organizations back eachother rather than fight eachother like hunters do

FN are putting little to no effort to oppose the grizzly hunt unless payed to do so by anti hunting groups. Yes there are bands that have been paid for their support but they are a fraction of the opposition

You are highly unlikely to see a grizzly hunt because of how theses groups lobby government and invest major efforts/$ into gaining public support. Kinda hard for hunters to compete when our only defense is that it’s sustainable and we are a smaller voice

BC has FN bans(Taltian is one for sure) supporting the return of the grizzly hunt and hunters are still not making ground

[buckman]

Lets see,bear killing livestock. S-S. Done.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Your biggest opposition is not FN you are actually up against highly funded anti hunting(not always opposed to all hunting) organizations. They lobby government non stop, donate to parties for support, and collect money from average people all the way up to celebrities. They are often on an international level when it comes to fundraising. Theses organizations back eachother rather than fight eachother like hunters do

FN are putting little to no effort to oppose the grizzly hunt unless payed to do so by anti hunting groups. Yes there are bands that have been paid for their support but they are a fraction of the opposition

You are highly unlikely to see a grizzly hunt because of how theses groups lobby government and invest major efforts/$ into gaining public support. Kinda hard for hunters to compete when our only defense is that it’s sustainable and we are a smaller voice

BC has FN bans(Taltian is one for sure) supporting the return of the grizzly hunt and hunters are still not making ground

You don’t understand. Fish and Wildlife use them as a tool to control bear populations. So why would they advocate a season? It’s just one less group to have as an ally in the return of a season.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Please Gentlemen,

All Animals are Sacred.

Whether or not a Person will or can kill a particular species of Animal is based on Individual circumstance such as Clan, Ceremonial obligations, Spiritual connections, and particularly modern peer pressure.

As with all Traditional actions, modern community views often conflate new perspectives with Old. It is very difficult to firmly hold onto the Old ways.

I've been asked to deal with nuisance animals on Reserves because no one from the Reserve was willing to kill a specific animal.
The concept of "Sacred" is often used by those that simply don't know the Old ways, and are willing to satisfy their New view and desire by making things up.

"We are ***** People, We don't kill Bears, or Beavers, or *****...."
Believe it or not, this is actually most often a NEW perspective, and often promoted by those that don't like killing, pressuring others to not kill, manipulating "Tradition" to achieve a personal desire.


Yes, Anti-hunting sentiment is at work influencing Indigenous tradition too....

Most people don’t like “blood” on their hands. It’s the way the world is. Someone else can do the dirty work and I can still have my cake. Or steak as the case may be.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by buckman

Lets see,bear killing livestock. S-S. Done.

It’s that easy eh?

[H380]

Originally Posted by MooseRiverTrapper

Incentive may be needed?

Nailed it .

Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk

[Ackleyman]

Originally Posted by buckman

Lets see,bear killing livestock. S-S. Done.

Exactly.

[buckman]

Once a predator learns how to target the easiest prey it will keep coming back. The other issue is it may well become a learned behavior for the rest of the areas bears.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Pathfinder76

Most people don’t like “blood” on their hands. It’s the way the world is. Someone else can do the dirty work and I can still have my cake. Or steak as the case may be.

Especially the politicians.
First Nations included.

-------------


There in an incredible amount of work being done by First Nations to cement control of Natural Resources. Grizzly Bears are an iconic species that top this list.
Unbeknownst to most, there are International Treaties between hundreds of Nations to establish control of any lethal management of Grizzly Bears. Yellowstone in 2018 was the last battle.


No incentive offered will be effective except to those that are Outcast from their Society. Are these the people you want to attract, to be your minions?

To even offer such would show that you truly do not understand how this works within the Indigenous Community. It would be quite insulting.

[Grizzly Adams1]

Originally Posted by Pathfinder76

It’s that easy eh?

Some of these bears wear satellite transponders. Been a couple of Park bears tracked and whacked a long ways from home.

Grizz

[3blade]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Personally, I would not encourage this for two reasons, one, it would remove a key benefit, to reinstate the grizzly hunt here, and two, it would give some people the idea that we should leave all game management to aboriginal hunters.

This ^

It seems like an immediate solution to pizz poor predator management, and therefore attractive. But our legal industry is obsessed with “precedent” and that is one you do not want to set.