Bill 24

[densa44]

This is the one where the school doesn't have to tell parents if they think your child/student is gay/lesbian/trans.

I'm long past having an interest in the topic but the supporters of the bill got 200 people (young) out on a cold long weekend to support the government's position.

This is to the attention of those people who are sure the NDP will lose the next election. This is one of the wedge issues I have mentioned before and as far as the government is concerned that the more that they can come up with between now and the election, the better chance they have to be re-elected.

I will assume here that the UCP and Mr. Kenny will oppose the legislation. Now how will it effect the electorate? Will it attract votes to the UCP or will they just maintain their base? How about the NDs? Will it attract voters (new voters) my guess is that they think that it will.

Governments have lots of power to manipulate events in their favour so I warn against over confidence.

[ESOXangler]

Bottom line is the majority of the 40 and under crowd support the bill to some extent. Schools have no right outing a child. Youth dealing with this have too many things to deal with already.

[WCTHEMI]

I just don’t understand why there needs to be a law about this. Does this make sense to anyone?


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[Flight01]

Originally Posted by WCTHEMI

I just don’t understand why there needs to be a law about this. Does this make sense to anyone?


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Exactly My thoughts

Who cares. Why make it a law.

Let it be.

[DiabeticKripple]

They are making it law because of Kenney.

He wants to out kids. But at the same time I do see his point that the parents should know what’s going on at school and in their kids lives.

[Newview01]

The bill does nothing other than take away parental control over children. Anybody who supports this bill believes that the government / education system knows what's best for the children. Is there a requirement for teachers to tell parents what is going on? No, there isn't. The bill creates a problem where there is none. It also makes teaches complacent and removes the teacher / parent connection. The child could be struggling in any aspect but the teacher doesn't feel like making an issue of it. No problem with this bill as there are now no consequences for not notifying parents.

It is a lot more than outing gay kids. You people need to learn to read between the lines. This is probably the most drastic step towards socialism / nanny state the NDP have taken.

[ESOXangler]

The sad part is that this actually does need to happen. There are still plenty of people that have issue with the LGBT community. I work with a guy who’s father completely removed him from the family when they discovered which way he swings.
Now imagine the regular stresses of being a teen, coupled with the burden of realizing you are different than the majority tied with the over hanging stress that youre teacher might whistle your dad up and out you. It’s a suicidal type of stress.

Let’s let teachers do their jobs. This isn’t part of it. They are not taking parental control away from anyone.

[greendrake]

Originally Posted by Newview01

The bill does nothing other than take away parental control over children. Anybody who supports this bill believes that the government / education system knows what's best for the children. Is there a requirement for teachers to tell parents what is going on? No, there isn't. The bill creates a problem where there is none. It also makes teaches complacent and removes the teacher / parent connection. The child could be struggling in any aspect but the teacher doesn't feel like making an issue of it. No problem with this bill as there are now no consequences for not notifying parents.

It is a lot more than outing gay kids. You people need to learn to read between the lines. This is probably the most drastic step towards socialism / nanny state the NDP have taken.

You're living in a conspiracy theory world. Pretty much exactly the opposite of what you say You're a pot stirrer !

[denied access]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

They are making it law because of Kenney.

He wants to out kids. But at the same time I do see his point that the parents should know what’s going on at school and in their kids lives.

That's not quite true. He wants to allow teachers to be able to do the job they are trained to do. If a child is being bullied or stressed because of their orientation a teacher should be able to talk to the parents about it.

[Tigger72]

So my question: Are we going to let the gov't choose when they want us to parent our children and when they get to??? If our children are misbehaving in school it becomes a responsibility of the parents to rectify, its called raising children/parenting?
Its kinda like the them trying to force the teachings of LGBTQ lifestyles in the schools despite it going against the catholic religion. Especially in this day and age where religious based groups seem to rule and can cry foul at any point and be exempt from what ever they want yet the govt says no you have to teach it. Where do we draw the line for allowing the govt to control our lives?

[CaberTosser]

Originally Posted by denied access

That's not quite true. He wants to allow teachers to be able to do the job they are trained to do. If a child is being bullied or stressed because of their orientation a teacher should be able to talk to the parents about it.

This. Everyone is going on like Kenny wants to burn witches but that’s pretty far from the truth and they should be ashamed for spreading such blatant lies (Kripple you’re guilty of this). He doesn’t even suggest that it be mandatory to notify parents, merely that it be an option available for the teachers as they see fit according to each unique situation. The opportunity for parents and teachers to co-operate in dealing with the welfare of a student is the aim, and shouldn’t that always be the aim?

Witch hunt or gay-bashing? Hardly.... Leftist hysteria, certainly.

[expedition]

Originally Posted by WCTHEMI

I just don’t understand why there needs to be a law about this. Does this make sense to anyone?


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x2

[DisplacedCaper]

Uuuuuugh. It’s been a while since I was in school (not as long as most on here I gather though lol). But do the schools call home to tell the parents their kid is attending debate club on their lunch? Or do they call home to tell them their kid is playing floor hockey in the gym? They didn’t when I was in school. I think this falls in the same category. The difference being a lot of people still think being gay is bad. For Christ sake there are a few more problems worthy of our governments time.


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[mattthegorby]

I agree that this social issue and others like it are used to play us against each other and divide our votes. In the end, whatever our social outlook, we all want our kids to be secure and grow into a world where they can make a good living and have the freedom of choice to be who they want to be.

Matt

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[midgetwaiter]

Originally Posted by densa44

This is the one where the school doesn't have to tell parents if they think your child/student is gay/lesbian/trans.

Have you read ANYTHING on this bill that wasn't published by the Rebel?

The bill has nothing to do with with the student's sexuality.

I expected better of a mod. Try reading the actual text, here's a link to a pdf.

http://www.assembly.ab.ca/ISYS/LADDA...2_bill-024.pdf

Among other tweaks, what the bill does do is restrict the school from informing parents if a student joining a Gay Straight Alliance club. You will probably find a lot of kids there that are trying to work out their sexual identity sure but you will also find other kids who are there for any number of reasons like supporting friends.

I don't support this bill. I agree with Kenny's position, teachers need to be able to approach parents with all the information if they have concerns about the student's welfare. However your attempt to reimagine this issue as a political exercise while disregarding the basic facts is shameful. If anything is going to drive people to the NDP it's that kind of obvious weasel move that will do it.

[Newview01]

Sounds like this passed.

Parents, the education system has deemed themselves to be better at raising your children than you are.

[JDK71]

this is why a lot of people are home schooling there kids and I think you will see more. my son is in his last year of school but if he was just starting school now we would be home schooling him for sure

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by JDK71

this is why a lot of people are home schooling there kids and I think you will see more. my son is in his last year of school but if he was just starting school now we would be home schooling him for sure

What will also happen is private schools will be under attack before you know it. Private schools are generally the top performers in AB, and ultimately the most cost effective for the taxpayer.

But hey, anything in the name of "progress" - read "control".

It will be interesting to see what the Catholic school boards do about this.

[JDK71]

Originally Posted by Newview01

What will also happen is private schools will be under attack before you know it. Private schools are generally the top performers in AB, and ultimately the most cost effective for the taxpayer.

But hey, anything in the name of "progress" - read "control".

It will be interesting to see what the Catholic school boards do about this.

I hear you about that it will be interesting for sure

[260 Rem]

I can’t recall the year, likely early ‘80’s, (as a HS Principal), going against the flow and resisting the implementation of “sex ed” being inserted into curriculum. I was convinced it should be parental perogative and schools should not be involved. In a perfect world, I would have been right but in the real world I came to understand, I WAS WRONG.
I suspect the same will come to pass with “gender identity” stuff and fifty years hence, will not even be included as a footnote in the history of education.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Newview01

Sounds like this passed.

Parents, the education system has deemed themselves to be better at raising your children than you are.

Interesting note.

I had trouble with a teacher being extremely critical with my children. He did the same with me. He did the same with my sister, 12 years older than me. He was the reason I quit school, and finished in Lloydminster. He cost my Dad a lot of money for a vehicle, gas and insurance.
For my daughter I went to the school and demanded a sit down with he and the Principal. Long story short, he did not know why he was so critical of my kids or I, and after threatening to take him outside if that was what he wanted of me, he began crying and decided that is was indeed his fault, stretching out a dislike for my sister into me, and finally my 2 kids. I asked him how long he could hold a grudge for something I nor my children did to him?
Immediately after that day he was very good to my kids, and the rest of the school saw an improvement. He retired a year later.

My point- teachers for most of the 13 years kids are in school have more to do with them than we do. When they are in their teens we see them for a minute before school, maybe 5 at lunch, for the 15 minutes they sit at supper and for a couple hours on the weekends. Teachers are in front of them for 6 hours 5 days per week for 13 years. They are a captive audience. Unless you homeskule, you (I) never see our kids anywhere near that much. I get up before them, leave for work before they are up, get home when they are playing, doing sports, homework or on the tv/computer/ipad/book in their room. Children and teenagers are sometimes solitary creatures just like adults.

When it was all said and done I explained this same thing to the teacher, and I thanked him for the many years of service that he had brought to the school, helping to raise all of our children for us. I believe that you have to be pretty damn special to be a teacher, hats off to everyone here that has chosen that vocation. (Alacringa)

He hugged me after he was done crying, and that was the first time we had talked in nearly 20 years. I asked him why he thought we never spoke, he had no answer. I did not expect him to, he had countless children and teenagers that he taught in his decades of standing before them. I said that although he did not remember me, I remembered how miserable and ignorant he was to me, and that stuck with me my entire life. Guess I held a grudge for 20 years too.

Being a teacher is very difficult, and I truly think that we are who we are due to the influence they have on us in our developing years. Imagine teaching 3 generations. He did.

I wonder if they want this bill to pass, or if it is some pinhead looking for another way to screw with us 'for our betterment'.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

Interesting note.

I had trouble with a teacher being extremely critical with my children. He did the same with me. He did the same with my sister, 12 years older than me. He was the reason I quit school, and finished in Lloydminster. He cost my Dad a lot of money for a vehicle, gas and insurance.
For my daughter I went to the school and demanded a sit down with he and the Principal. Long story short, he did not know why he was so critical of my kids or I, and after threatening to take him outside if that was what he wanted of me, he began crying and decided that is was indeed his fault, stretching out a dislike for my sister into me, and finally my 2 kids. I asked him how long he could hold a grudge for something I nor my children did to him?
Immediately after that day he was very good to my kids, and the rest of the school saw an improvement. He retired a year later.

My point- teachers for most of the 13 years kids are in school have more to do with them than we do. When they are in their teens we see them for a minute before school, maybe 5 at lunch, for the 15 minutes they sit at supper and for a couple hours on the weekends. Teachers are in front of them for 6 hours 5 days per week for 13 years. They are a captive audience. Unless you homeskule, you (I) never see our kids anywhere near that much. I get up before them, leave for work before they are up, get home when they are playing, doing sports, homework or on the tv/computer/ipad/book in their room. Children and teenagers are sometimes solitary creatures just like adults.

When it was all said and done I explained this same thing to the teacher, and I thanked him for the many years of service that he had brought to the school, helping to raise all of our children for us. I believe that you have to be pretty damn special to be a teacher, hats off to everyone here that has chosen that vocation. (Alacringa)

He hugged me after he was done crying, and that was the first time we had talked in nearly 20 years. I asked him why he thought we never spoke, he had no answer. I did not expect him to, he had countless children and teenagers that he taught in his decades of standing before them. I said that although he did not remember me, I remembered how miserable and ignorant he was to me, and that stuck with me my entire life. Guess I held a grudge for 20 years too.

Being a teacher is very difficult, and I truly think that we are who we are due to the influence they have on us in our developing years. Imagine teaching 3 generations. He did.

I wonder if they want this bill to pass, or if it is some pinhead looking for another way to screw with us 'for our betterment'.

I am taking your short story as you disagreeing with the removal of the parent-teacher connection.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by Newview01

Sounds like this passed.

Parents, the education system has deemed themselves to be better at raising your children than you are.

Please let me know how a teacher would know if a parent is going to beat the living tar out of their child? Osmosis? Psychic giftings?? Crystal balls??? Do you really think that this doesn't happen to kids coming out??? Are you so blinded by your political conservatism that you can't figure out that a gay kid doesn't need another layer of fear in their lives that a teacher, who is supposed to be a trusting adult figure, may rat them out to their parent who may be very against their sexuality, which they did not choose in the first place?

This is not a perfect bill. Life is not perfect, nor is it lived out in black or white. It's not the role of a teacher. We teach curriculum. We are not psychoanalysts. And I am comfortable in making the blanket statement that if a parent is unaware that their child is gay, they are approaching failure status as a parent.

These are not sex clubs people. They are peer support groups for a group of kids who have the highest suicide rate in all society, and are at the most fragile point in their lives. If you think that threatens the foundation of western society, then I am at a loss for words.

[DiabeticKripple]

^^^^ a teacher

[sns2]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

^^^^ a teacher

Yes. A proud one who has seen a bit of the good, bad, and ugly that kids live with.

[SoaringEagle]

Well said, Sns2.

[JDK71]

this will change families kids will start to say I don't have to tell you anything about what he or she is doing in school and if you ask the teacher they will tell you the same I feel this will create a gap between parents and there kids maybe not. Not sure how you can help your kids if you don't know whats going on in there life .It is always nice to be able to talk to a teacher about your kid because they do spend a lot of time with them .I hope that dose not make the teachers scared to talk to you about your kids .(in case they say something that could get them in trouble) sometimes you need a little help from the teacher we were al teens once

[sns2]

Originally Posted by JDK71

this will change families kids will start to say I don't have to tell you anything about what he or she is doing in school and if you ask the teacher they will tell you the same I feel this will create a gap between parents and there kids maybe not. Not sure how you can help your kids if you don't know whats going on in there life .It is always nice to be able to talk to a teacher about your kid because they do spend a lot of time with them .I hope that dose not make the teachers scared to talk to you about your kids .(in case they say something that could get them in trouble) sometimes you need a little help from the teacher we were al teens once

Since time immemorial, teenagers have not been telling their parents about what is going on. Did you sit down with your mom to tell her about your first romp in a back seat? C'mon folks. This is a narrow bill about Gay Straight Alliances. If this rocks your world, then the foundation of your life is obviously sand.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by sns2

Please let me know how a teacher would know if a parent is going to beat the living tar out of their child? Osmosis? Psychic giftings?? Crystal balls??? Do you really think that this doesn't happen to kids coming out??? Are you so blinded by your political conservatism that you can't figure out that a gay kid doesn't need another layer of fear in their lives that a teacher, who is supposed to be a trusting adult figure, may rat them out to their parent who may be very against their sexuality, which they did not choose in the first place?

This is not a perfect bill. Life is not perfect, nor is it lived out in black or white. It's not the role of a teacher. We teach curriculum. We are not psychoanalysts. And I am comfortable in making the blanket statement that if a parent is unaware that their child is gay, they are approaching failure status as a parent.

These are not sex clubs people. They are peer support groups for a group of kids who have the highest suicide rate in all society, and are at the most fragile point in their lives. If you think that threatens the foundation of western society, then I am at a loss for words.

Simmer down.

So do you agree that this bill removes a connection that could have been comfortably made between teachers and parents? What about parent / teacher meetings? What can be said? Keep in mind that this bill is only about GSA’s on the surface. The premise is frightening.

While the child is a minor, it should be the parents’ right to know what their child is doing at school, end of story.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by Newview01

Simmer down.

So do you agree that this bill removes a connection that could have been comfortably made between teachers and parents? What about parent / teacher meetings? What can be said? Keep in mind that this bill is only about GSA’s on the surface. The premise is frightening.

While the child is a minor, it should be the parents’ right to know what their child is doing at school, end of story.

We agree to disagree. I will say it again, if a kid is gay and the parents don't know, then there is something dreadfully amiss. Though a teenager has never confided in me that they are gay, if they did, the first question I would ask is if they had spoken with their parents. If they hadn't, I would urge them to. If they didn't feel comfortable with it, I would ask why not, but ultimately I think that is between them and their folks. It's just not my place to out a gay kid if there is any potential for harm, and there is no way if us knowing. The potential for placing any student in harm's way is antithetical to the very heart of what makes a good teacher. Further, it's just not our job.

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