Why the 223 Rem should be a legal big game round

[BigJon]

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta

I got no doubt that the 223 is capable. The problem is how do you stop people from using it beyond its capabilities. Kurt has a 300 yard limit on his new whatchamacallit. The guys hunting with the smaller guns gonna put the same limitations on themselves? Probably not. They'll see their booner fork horn at 600 and have a go at it. What happens when they see that elk out there in the field?

Where does the legal limations start and stop? Can only use a 223 from 0-150 yards on deer and antelope? Can only use a 223 on deer and antelope?

I suppose the same way people are currently “stopped” from using a particular tool beyond their capabilities. There will always be some that try to punch above their weight class. People do it with bows, .30” magnums, etc.

As has been mentioned, we can look to jurisdictions that allow .22” CF for big game and ask if they have a plethora of wounded game running around with small holes in them. We already know that answer though.

In Wyoming, .22 CF is only allowed for deer and antelope, in MT I believe you can whack an elk with one if your so inclined. BC, MB and ON all allow .22s for big game. From memory the only cutoff is bison in BC.

[Suzukisam]

Oh heck I wish they would just open it up. My son is really good with sling and rock can take your eye out at 100. After all David used it to take Goliath so little old moose should be no problem. And only single shot or break actions should be allowed. Better sporting chance

[Smokinyotes]

123 posts on the merits of shooting game with a 223. Funny. Yes it can be done. Is there better options probably.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Suzukisam

Oh heck I wish they would just open it up. My son is really good with sling and rock can take your eye out at 100. After all David used it to take Goliath so little old moose should be no problem. And only single shot or break actions should be allowed. Better sporting chance

This tells me that you have little experience in general and zip for experience with the 223.

[Talking moose]

I believe the .222 or .223 has shot more polar bear by the Inuits than any other caliber.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

I believe the .222 or .223 has shot more polar bear by the Inuits than any other caliber.

True, but you have to consider the methods they use to hunt those bears, as well as the terrain.

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

True, but you have to consider the methods they use to hunt those bears, as well as the terrain.

I have considered it. And choose a .338

[Suzukisam]

Originally Posted by chuck

This tells me that you have little experience in general and zip for experience with the 223.

Enough to know not to leave the door open for anti hunters to have an excuse to try shut it down some more. And to know I don’t want to be shot by any of those round. And know enough about gov’t to know that every time they give you something they take 2 back. So if you can’t put Humour to it you may as well sit at home and become an armchair critic. Face it at the rate we’re going there will be no hunting in 2 generations from now. If you can’t stick together you will be decided and Conquer as in all others that have fallen before

[Suzukisam]

And yes all firearms are deadly when used in the right hands and yes a bad placed shot even with a 338 Labua is not deadly. But they make the laws for average not the marksman. You do not have to pass a skill or competency shooting test to hunt. That is left to each and everyone of us to choose or own ethical limits based on our own competency. Heck those guys using spears could be better at dispatching an animal then a lot of hunters. Do I agree with it no but that’s not my thing

[bucksnbears]

Uffda !

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta

I got no doubt that the 223 is capable. The problem is how do you stop people from using it beyond its capabilities. Kurt has a 300 yard limit on his new whatchamacallit. The guys hunting with the smaller guns gonna put the same limitations on themselves? Probably not. They'll see their booner fork horn at 600 and have a go at it. What happens when they see that elk out there in the field?

Where does the legal limations start and stop? Can only use a 223 from 0-150 yards on deer and antelope? Can only use a 223 on deer and antelope?

What percentage of hunters do you figure are proficient marksmen out past 300yds? All a bigger gun does is wound the animal worse when these so called marksmen attempt these long bombs because they have a gun that is capable but maybe not the skills.

I'd be willing to bet everything I own that bad shot placement is responsible for more wounded game getting away than cartridge choice.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

What percentage of hunters do you figure are proficient marksmen out past 300yds? All a bigger gun does is wound the animal worse when these so called marksmen attempt these long bombs because they have a gun that is capable but maybe not the skills.

I'd be willing to bet everything I own that bad shot placement is responsible for more wounded game getting away than cartridge choice.

There are no skills left for anyone else. You, and guys just like you have them all. Good to see you have it all figgered out.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Salavee

There are no skills left for anyone else. You, and guys just like you have them all. Good to see you have it all figgered out.

Why do you have your pout on? You blab about stuff you have zero experience with, then when someone who has extensive experience in the field pipes up and tells you how it really is, you cry fake news.

Those that have the skills use them, those that don't are left with resentment.

[rem338win]

Originally Posted by Salavee

I sure as hell hope its the end. You're blowin smoke .. big time.

Originally Posted by Salavee

That's not a subject I choose to talk about, but I have more than enough to
keep up to you and a few others on here. Honest !

Enough said. Only person blowing smoke is yourself; facts over feelings for myself and you are short on facts.

You've got little to offer this conversation anymore so it's just about internet pride then huh?

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

I believe the .222 or .223 has shot more polar bear by the Inuits than any other caliber.

would love to know if there's a certain bullet choice they typically use?

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

would love to know if there's a certain bullet choice they typically use?

Guessing the cheapest. Or surplass. Or whatever is in the gun while seal hunting

[JD848]

Originally Posted by chuck

This tells me that you have little experience in general and zip for experience with the 223.

The king of the forest and the living legend has given his final amiable thoughts to another member which he does not have a clue about this person.To know it all and to dictate to others is a talent that very few have and he has achieved this goal with pure belief in his tiny mind.

Millions of hunters, yet this master of his own destiny has surpassed all of them without every pulling his pants down to take a dump.You have to be extremely tough to not pull your pants down to crap,maybe he does crap and is in severe need of an enema .

Not cool buddy boy,telling others day after day how ignorant they are and that they have no skills seems to be your favor pastime .How righteous you must feel pounding your chest over a lousy 223.I know a 223 can kill and that's no secret.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Guessing the cheapest. Or surplass.

would be my guess too, maybe fmj .223? likely takes a few pokes if running down on sleds or maybe brain shots at close range then likely regular soft points would be fine too, and i'm sure not really the way we'd choose to do it typically but we can afford to do differently, sounds pretty 'necessity is the mother of all invention' but they get it done all the same

[boah]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Those that have the skills use them, those that don't are left with resentment.

Also, those that don’t think that a xxx magnum will make up for their inabilities.

[angery jonn]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

What percentage of hunters do you figure are proficient marksmen out past 300yds? All a bigger gun does is wound the animal worse when these so called marksmen attempt these long bombs because they have a gun that is capable but maybe not the skills.

I'd be willing to bet everything I own that bad shot placement is responsible for more wounded game getting away than cartridge choice.

I don't understand the point your trying to make... if more animals are wounded every year due to poor marksmanship, how is making a smaller caliber requirement going to help? Please don't tell me that they'll shoot it better. 3 shots a year is three shots a year, it doesn't matter what caliber you shoot you'll still struggle with competency.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by JD848

The king of the forest and the living legend has given his final amiable thoughts to another member which he does not have a clue about this person.To know it all and to dictate to others is a talent that very few have and he has achieved this goal with pure belief in his tiny mind.

Millions of hunters, yet this master of his own destiny has surpassed all of them without every pulling his pants down to take a dump.You have to be extremely tough to not pull your pants down to crap,maybe he does crap and is in severe need of an enema .

Not cool buddy boy,telling others day after day how ignorant they are and that they have no skills seems to be your favor pastime .How righteous you must feel pounding your chest over lousy a 223.I know a 223 can kill and that's no secret.

There are a handful of characters who fit that description. If you don't agree with them and their want/need to use a small caliber rifle on big game, or choose to use a larger caliber than they feel is necessary, then you obviously are severely lacking hunting experience or the ability to place a projectile where it needs to be. Laughable at best when they have no idea who they are actually "talking" to. Some pretty tall horses.
Guessing a .223 would be a fine choice for a ram on a windy mountainside at distance? Be a slam dunk one shot kill when you're a legend in your own mind C""""?

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by angery jonn

I don't understand the point your trying to make... if more animals are wounded every year due to poor marksmanship, how is making a smaller caliber requirement going to help? Please don't tell me that they'll shoot it better. 3 shots a year is three shots a year, it doesn't matter what caliber you shoot you'll still struggle with competency.

If you don't want to know the answer, don't ask the question. People will shoot a lighter cartridge way more often than a large magnum, making them more comfortable with their rifle and ultimately a better marksman, also they won't be as prone to attempt to shoot past their comfort zone hoping a big cartridge will magically drop the animal when you hit it in the guts.

3 shots a year is three shots a year, it doesn't matter what gun you miss with does it?

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by angery jonn

I don't understand the point your trying to make... if more animals are wounded every year due to poor marksmanship, how is making a smaller caliber requirement going to help? Please don't tell me that they'll shoot it better. 3 shots a year is three shots a year, it doesn't matter what caliber you shoot you'll still struggle with competency.

competency is up to us, choosing adequate shot opportunities with adequate cartridges, bullets etc. is up to us, ballistics understanding and improvements in equipment including cartridges/bullets have come such a long way...efficiencies have come up, we can do more with less now, don't have to compensate with extra powder and beat up shoulders anymore, so the rules should be looked at with fresh eyes and freshened up to fit the times....natural progression imo

i'd only have to shoot a 300 win mag with a hard recoil pad once to have a flinch, so 3 shots a year would still be 3 shots too many for many with the wrong cartridge and or gun itself, you'd be better off letting someone else check zero and then go hunting and pull the trigger cool as a cucumber when you get your chance...sort of like how handing a rifle to my 11 yr old this spring on his first coyote, dumped it like a pro, didn't even hear the gun go off (.243), didn't feel a thing...i let my 9 yr old shoot a grendel at a target and he's still talking about the recoil, just one shot, didn't hurt him, just scared him, quite a jump from a .22lr to the Grendel...had it also been a coyote he likely wouldn't have an issue of any sort but in one shot on the bench i know he's going to need further assessment and time before we head afield to know he's not scared of it...my 11 yr old never shot a centerfire off the bench, his first centerfire shot was that coyote, i know when we get going on the grendels and range time it may take them a little time getting used to it but wouldn't want more than grendel/.243 recoil levels that's for sure

[angery jonn]

So you figure the guy shooting a 270 or a 300 is going to hit the range more if he can use a 223? Highly doubtful...

Should we drop draw weights down to 30lbs so that my 11yr old can hunt with he’s bow? He’s really good with it!

These rules aren’t in place to hamstring the proficient shooters, there in place for the masses. Look at what’s going on with long range hunting right now, do you honestly think people won’t go to the same extremes if their able to use smaller calibers? Common sense is rare now a days.

[angery jonn]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

competency is up to us, choosing adequate shot opportunities with adequate cartridges, bullets etc. is up to us, ballistics understanding and improvements in equipment including cartridges/bullets have come such a long way...efficiencies have come up, we can do more with less now, don't have to compensate with extra powder and beat up shoulders anymore, so the rules should be looked at with fresh eyes and freshened up to fit the times....natural progression imo

i'd only have to shoot a 300 win mag with a hard recoil pad once to have a flinch, so 3 shots a year would still be 3 shots too many for many with the wrong cartridge and or gun itself, you'd be better off letting someone else check zero and then go hunting and pull the trigger cool as a cucumber when you get your chance...sort of like how handing a rifle to my 11 yr old this spring on his first coyote, dumped it like a pro, didn't even hear the gun go off (.243), didn't feel a thing...

Don’t you need to be 12 to shoot Coyotes in Alberta?

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

People will shoot a lighter cartridge way more often than a large magnum, making them more comfortable with their rifle and ultimately a better marksman,

?

Wow, that I did not know. Laughing

You actually believe everything you type?

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by angery jonn

Don’t you need to be 12 to shoot Coyotes in Alberta?

no, phoned and confirmed with feathers too, have returned message saved on phone just to be sure

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by angery jonn

So you figure the guy shooting a 270 or a 300 is going to hit the range more if he can use a 223? Highly doubtful...

Should we drop draw weights down to 30lbs so that my 11yr old can hunt with he’s bow? He’s really good with it!

These rules aren’t in place to hamstring the proficient shooters, there in place for the masses. Look at what’s going on with long range hunting right now, do you honestly think people won’t go to the same extremes if their able to use smaller calibers? Common sense is rare now a days.

Does it really matter what gun you miss with???

Another question is, do you think a guy who takes 3 shots a year is going to choose a 223 as his primary rifle to take 3 shots with?

The guys who are taking the time to learn long range shooting are well educated in the field of shooting and most likely are well in tune with their cartridges capabilities.

Who would you rather shoot at you, a guy who uses a 300 magnum to take his 3 shots a year or a guy with a 223 who shoots 3000 rounds a year?

I know I'd feel safer with the guy shooting a 300 magnum at me.

[angery jonn]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Does it really matter what gun you miss with???

Another question is, do you think a guy who takes 3 shots a year is going to choose a 223 as his primary rifle to take 3 shots with?

The guys who are taking the time to learn long range shooting are well educated in the field of shooting and most likely are well in tune with their cartridges capabilities.

Who would you rather shoot at you, a guy who uses a 300 magnum to take his 3 shots a year or a guy with a 223 who shoots 3000 rounds a year?

I know I'd feel safer with the guy shooting a 300 magnum at me.

Personally I’d prefer it if no one shot at me...

[Big Sky]

I shoot a whack of 223 every year. This thread has got me thinking.

Regarding bullet choice, I have 55gr fmj's and 55gr Ballistic Tips in good supply.
The fmj's would not be legal. Would my Ballistic Tips be a good choice for deer?