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Old 02-17-2019, 06:47 PM
bigwolf bigwolf is offline
 
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Default How many non resident alien tags sold in Alberta each year?

I can't seem to find the info online. Just wondering if anyone knows where to get that info?
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Old 02-17-2019, 07:25 PM
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KyleSS KyleSS is offline
 
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Call APOS on Tuesday
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Old 02-17-2019, 07:32 PM
bigwolf bigwolf is offline
 
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Call APOS on Tuesday
Will do. I'll post what they tell me in case anyone else is interested.
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Old 02-17-2019, 07:56 PM
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Some general licence sales info.

https://mywildalberta.ca/buy-licence...tatistics.aspx
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  #5  
Old 02-17-2019, 08:03 PM
bigwolf bigwolf is offline
 
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I did find that online just not quite what I'm looking for.
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Old 02-17-2019, 08:24 PM
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What specifically are you looking for?

F&W promised to publish detailed licence data every year.
And another project pushed aside for today's flavour.


APOS might help, might ask for a fee, or not.

F&W has the data, just need to WRITE the right person and ask.
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Alberta Fish and Wildlife Outdoor Recreation Policy -

"to identify very rare, scarce or special forms of fish and wildlife outdoor recreation opportunities and to ensure that access to these opportunities continues to be available to all Albertans."
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Old 02-17-2019, 10:41 PM
MooseRiverTrapper MooseRiverTrapper is offline
 
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A staggering figure about our wildlife getting stolen from under our noses and no one seems to care is non resident draws!!!!
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Old 02-17-2019, 10:48 PM
marky_mark marky_mark is offline
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I’d be all for removing the hunter host/ non resident draws
Or at least limiting it to once every 3 years for the host and the hunter
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Old 02-18-2019, 12:19 AM
amosfella amosfella is offline
 
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I didn't know that little green men hunted deer legally... Thought they would just scoop them up in their saucers and run away... Like a poacher just with no wheel tracks...
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Old 02-18-2019, 04:01 AM
bigwolf bigwolf is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amosfella View Post
I didn't know that little green men hunted deer legally... Thought they would just scoop them up in their saucers and run away... Like a poacher just with no wheel tracks...
Um.. what???
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Old 02-18-2019, 04:03 AM
bigwolf bigwolf is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo View Post
What specifically are you looking for?

F&W promised to publish detailed licence data every year.
And another project pushed aside for today's flavour.


APOS might help, might ask for a fee, or not.

F&W has the data, just need to WRITE the right person and ask.
I just want to know how many guys from other countries are hunting in Alberta each year. I'm just curious.
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Old 02-18-2019, 07:36 AM
Beeman3 Beeman3 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marky_mark View Post
I’d be all for removing the hunter host/ non resident draws
Or at least limiting it to once every 3 years for the host and the hunter
Sure hope that doesn't happen. I enjoy coming to Alberta to go elk hunting. Have met some great people over the last few years as well. Don't worry marky mark we are not putting much of a dent in the elk population. But it sure is a fun get away for a week. If I get a elk it is a bonus. I just enjoy the trip. This is in a non draw zone. Non resident Canadians bring a lot of money into communities during hunting season. I feel sorry for the small town hotels and restaurants since SASK went to a draw.
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Old 02-18-2019, 08:25 AM
saskbooknut saskbooknut is offline
 
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Saskatchewan went to a draw for non-resident Canadian Whitetail tags in response to a drastic winter kill, illegal outfitting and politics of putting residents first. We never had a broader hunter host option.
Then SERM instituted priority for non-resident Canadians who had family connections in Saskatchewan.
It will never be the free for all it once was.
CWD impact is likely to reduce interest and opportunity further.
I don' t think the average citizen has any idea how bad the impact of CWD will be on wildlife resources.
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Old 02-18-2019, 08:30 AM
marky_mark marky_mark is offline
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Originally Posted by Beeman3 View Post
Sure hope that doesn't happen. I enjoy coming to Alberta to go elk hunting. Have met some great people over the last few years as well. Don't worry marky mark we are not putting much of a dent in the elk population. But it sure is a fun get away for a week. If I get a elk it is a bonus. I just enjoy the trip. This is in a non draw zone. Non resident Canadians bring a lot of money into communities during hunting season. I feel sorry for the small town hotels and restaurants since SASK went to a draw.
Sorry but I don’t see the big contributions to the communities your talking about? Might be buying gas, maybe staying in a hotel. But your not paying more than going through a guide. So your actually taking potential money away.

I don’t see the benefit of non residents hunting here without paying market value for the animals. As albertans I don’t think we OWE non residents any reason for a freebie discount or break.
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Old 02-18-2019, 09:10 AM
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SageValleyOutdoors SageValleyOutdoors is offline
 
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Default Non resident alien hunters

This is only my opinion - and I’m an outfitter, so take it with a grain of salt...
And I’m sorry - it’s kind of long winded...
These are wild animals. They’re not property owned by you or me or anyone else... an argument could be made that since legally they ARE crown property, they are owned by every tax paying Albertan, but beyond that, i don’t see how it matters who shoots the damn things.

For my clients, i rent a house in a small town - either through airBNB or word of mouth or whatever. This little town is a former mining town, and quite poor. I think it’s mainly occupied by long haul truck drivers and oilfield workers. It’s close enough to a major tourist area that in the summer, the homeowner does ok with tourists, but once September rolls around, their renters dry up. My clients and i bring valuable dollars to these people. In addition to the food, fuel and other places in town where my guys spend their money.
Every morning - and i mean EVERY morning, as we’re loading up the truck to go hunting, there’s a local fella that drives by (presumably on his way to work) and he recognizes us for what we are - hunters, probably a guide and clients.
Every morning when he drives by, he beeps his horn repeatedly, rolls his windows down, flips us off and screams at us. His language is colourful, but the major gist of it is “go home and hunt your own f-ing deer!”

I’ve always wanted to stop this guy and ask him - who’s deer are they? And who decides that? Is it the landowners deer? If so, he’s free to hunt them and let anyone else hunt them should he choose to do so. We have pretty much sole access on a 35,000 acre ranch, in addition to several other large ranches in the area who allow us to hunt. Are the deer owned by people who live locally? If so, what’s the radius you must live in to be considered “local”? 5km? 50km?
This guy, and all the other haters like that who’re either too afraid to stop and talk, or who only have the courage to argue their point behind a keyboard embarrass me. As an albertan, i would hope we could do better. We are BLESSED with amazing hunting opportunity - and yet get all angry and jealous when some shmuck from Pennsylvania or Oregon comes up to experience what we all take for granted. My main group of guys is an elderly father and his two sons. They’ve been up here about 10 times. Know the roads, know the landowners, and know where the deer are. If they legally could - they’d be able to run their own hunt without me. Yet they can’t, so they hire a lowly guide. A LOT of these guys are just like you and i - working class people who save $ and can only do this hunt once. They’ve always dreamed of an exotic hunt for a different species and in a different country - and this meathead driving down the road is the welcome they get. THAT’S what’s embarrassing to me.
Back to the landowners - i work my butt off to maintain good relationships with them. I DO NOT PAY THEM in ANY way. My operation is clean and legal down to the bare bones. I am respectful, courteous and am at the point where i consider many of them to be personal friends. The landowners of that 35,000 acre ranch even give me hockey tickets to take my kids to flames games. Without fail - every year. I’m there in the spring, summer, fall and winter with all the landowners out there - being friendly, helping out wherever i can.
My point behind this is simply that i invest the time, effort and money in hunting my area. It defines me - is not simply something i DO so much as part of who i am. I don’t show up the day before the season to get permission and then disappear for a year. I invest myself with the landowners who allow access.
So while i don’t own the deer any more than you or The guy in the truck or any other albertan, I’ve worked for my access and relationships more than most.
So the guy in the truck doesn’t bother me any more. I’d like to talk to him, and hope he’s reading this... my guys aren’t taking “your” deer. Because you’d never be allowed to hunt these deer. Because they aren’t “your” deer any more than they’re my deer.
If you’re the guy in the truck (or dislike the non resident aliens like him), and if you’d look beyond your anger and jealousy, and introduce yourself. Talk to the people hunting and the people who are guiding them, you’d see it’s not a bunch of rich *****holes taking advantage of our province and the bounty of wildlife we have. And I’m not a rich outfitter screwing the locals out of “their” animals. I try to be a hard working guy, who loves hunting and I’m trying to supplement my income in the way i love.
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Old 02-18-2019, 09:35 AM
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Of the species you guide for, how many does a resident have to apply to get drawn for?
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Old 02-18-2019, 09:55 AM
last minute last minute is offline
 
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Quote:
As albertans I don’t think we OWE non residents any reason for a freebie discount or break.
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What freeBie Discount or Break are you talking aboutthey pay just like everyone elsePlease explain the great injustice a non-resident hunters are causing such grief in the Alberta hunting world .
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Old 02-18-2019, 10:03 AM
Jamie Jamie is offline
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I have no problem sharing our resources with anyone else. PROVIDING, their Province or State does the same thing. There should be a comprehensive list of every Province and State. If they match what we do, then your more than welcome to come. If they don't, well then sorry.
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Old 02-18-2019, 10:07 AM
Mb-MBR Mb-MBR is offline
 
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The Supreme Court of Canada in Sparrow SCC determined the priority and it is as follows;
1st-Conservation of a species
2nd-Treaty and Aboriginal Rights users
3rd-Resident Canadians
Last-Non Residents.

That is the priority the crown is supposed to manage towards. So if the crown is to take action the crown is supposed to start at the bottom when restricting or eliminating access.

Before I get flamed, this is not an opinion but the rule of law.
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Old 02-18-2019, 10:15 AM
calgarychef calgarychef is offline
 
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I think having the ability to OCCASIONALLY bring friends to hunt is nice.
With the draw as the are non res aliens aren’t able to hunt except on general tags. I don’t see the problem.
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  #21  
Old 02-18-2019, 10:26 AM
bigwolf bigwolf is offline
 
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Well this got off track fast. I wish I didnt start this thread now.
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Old 02-18-2019, 10:44 AM
trapperdodge trapperdodge is offline
 
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SK doesn't want non resident hunters. They have driven the upland hunters out of the province at the expense of the small towns.

SK don't mind coming here to AB to hunt but you better not think you'll be going there to hunt.

They've forgotten what a good neighbour AB has been to them.
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Old 02-18-2019, 10:55 AM
marky_mark marky_mark is offline
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Why not do it like the yukon and modify it.
Have x amount of non resident hunter host tags and it’s on a draw.
If your not selected then you priority increases
Once your selected it’s 3 years before you can come back and the same for the host
The way it stands now non residents (Canadians) can apply for draws in Alberta.
I don’t think that should be allowed
Have x Amount if tags available for hunter hosting general tags
If it’s a limited entry hunt you should have to go through a guide

I’d be curious to know how many draws went to non residents( Canadians)


The fact that non residents can apply for draws like for 410 bighorn sheep makes me shake my head. Like that’s a 35k guided hunt plus or a 10 year wait if your a resident. Makes no sense to me

Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for non residents hunting in Alberta but I think there is a lot people playing the system.
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Old 02-18-2019, 11:06 AM
ward ward is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie View Post
I have no problem sharing our resources with anyone else. PROVIDING, their Province or State does the same thing. There should be a comprehensive list of every Province and State. If they match what we do, then your more than welcome to come. If they don't, well then sorry.
I agree with the sharing part. I am not sure how you would manage the balancing act with the other jurisdictions. The abundance or lack of each species would make things difficult.
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Old 02-18-2019, 11:28 AM
-JR- -JR- is online now
 
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Default Double dipping!

I have been asked in the past to be a hunter host in Alberta .
But as the years go by, I am finding it harder to get drawn.
Is it because there are more non-Albertians Applying !

Getting tied of hearing about guys double dipping.
Hunting moose in their Prov. then in ours !
Sure let them come hunt ,but not in any Draws!
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Old 02-18-2019, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boah View Post
Of the species you guide for, how many does a resident have to apply to get drawn for?
I archery hunt mule deer in a general archery zone, and black bears.

I know what you’re getting at - “why can an American come here every year and pay for a draw license when i have to wait xx number of years for a tag?”
I agree with you. It shouldn’t be like that. I think residents should be able to book or buy their own tag every year the same as non residents. But i don’t know how that kind of system would work, and that’s not the way things legally operate. I do what i can within the rules set out by the AB government and APOS. Regardless of how shady the system and it’s operstors are, that’s what I’m limited to.
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  #27  
Old 02-18-2019, 11:38 AM
Beeman3 Beeman3 is offline
 
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I understand this is a touchy subject. But it does make a difference to the businesses in small towns. It’s going on six years now that myself and numerous friends haven’t been drawn to hunt whitetail in Saskatchewan. Whichever small town we stayed in, the hotel and restaurant owners always thanked us for the business and hoped we would come back the following year. These rooms would be basically empty if it wasn’t for non resident Canadian hunters. I don’t now what the solution is, but I sure do miss hunting in Saskatchewan. I would also miss not going to Alberta. Even though it is a 18 hr drive one way for me. I will say if the population drops then tags must be reduced and I wouldn’t expect to get a tag over a resident of that province.
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Old 02-18-2019, 11:41 AM
marky_mark marky_mark is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -JR- View Post
I have been asked in the past to be a hunter host in Alberta .
But as the years go by, I am finding it harder to get drawn.
Is it because there are more non-Albertians Applying !

Getting tied of hearing about guys double dipping.
Hunting moose in their Prov. then in ours !
Sure let them come hunt ,but not in any Draws!
I don’t think it’s fair that a resident has to wait as long as someone from another province

Last edited by marky_mark; 02-18-2019 at 12:09 PM.
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  #29  
Old 02-18-2019, 12:57 PM
trapperdodge trapperdodge is offline
 
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In the US many states wont allow residents to hunt from a state that doesn't let non residents hunt in their jurisdiction. For example if Minnesota wont let hunters from Wisconsin hunt then Wisconsin wont let Minnesotans hunt. Simple.
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Old 02-18-2019, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwolf View Post
I just want to know how many guys from other countries are hunting in Alberta each year. I'm just curious.
That information is provided in the link I posted under "Hunter Demographics".

NR Alien - 7.370

This would be the number of Hunting Licences sold to NR Aliens, not for specific big game tags.


----
We previously went over the issue of NRs hunting big game in Alberta and specifically for those in the draw. I provided detailed data for each individual species.



I'll have to dig up the data, but IIRC Less than 2% of draw licences are issued to NR Canadians Hunter hosted for the few draws they are eligible for.


People wouldn't believe how LOW the percentage of NR Canadians are in the draw, it wrecked their argument that this is any kind of a problem.


When the facts are known, it is hard to view a desire to eliminate NR Canadians as anything other than being greedy. Most Hunter Hosted licences go to Fathers, Sons, Daughters of Alberta residents... and people want to get rid of this?

Didn't yo Momma teach you to share at all?


Then there are those with a distorted understanding of what NR Hunter Hosts can apply for, such as 410 Sheep....
Marky Mark, you might want to review the Draw regulations.
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