Draconian Fisheries Closures in BC

[IronNoggin]

Read it and weep:

http://seawestnews.com/sweeping-clos...ishing-season/

https://www.timescolonist.com/news/l...ing-1.23793196

[Positrac]

Thanks for posting Nog.

Going to be a tough season for the guides. I know quite a few in Campbell River and the last few years have been a rough go. My cousin pulled the plug today after guiding every year for the last 27 mostly in CR. He figures there’s more money to be made building fences and raking leaves with the way things have been going. Pretty sad...

[Jayhad]

How is this Draconian and what actions would you suggest to protect the Spring stocks?

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by Jayhad

How is this Draconian and what actions would you suggest to protect the Spring stocks?

That really is the question, isn't it. No matter what changes are made, there are going to be unhappy people.

[Positrac]

Originally Posted by Jayhad

How is this Draconian and what actions would you suggest to protect the Spring stocks?

Pulling the endless amount of nets out of the rivers would be a start. At the very least that should be done if there are conservation concerns.

[Jim Blake]

Quite a devastating change of rules. It would be interesting for the AO Sponsors on the Coast to weigh in how it affects their operations.

Got to be a big hit to some. Many of the fishermen I have met out there that are on a guided package are concerned on how many pounds of fish they take home. Especially the non-resident alien fishermen.

We are looking at doing a trip out there somewhere this year, and probably will regardless of retention amounts. How much fish can two people eat LOL???

Are the Commercial quotas at risk as well?

[Albertacoyotecaller]

Originally Posted by Positrac

Pulling the endless amount of nets out of the rivers would be a start. At the very least that should be done if there are conservation concerns.

Truth.

[bowness]

Nets destroy fisheries. Ask anyone who lived in third world nations of even in places like Europe 60 years ago.

[IronNoggin]

Originally Posted by Jayhad

How is this Draconian and what actions would you suggest to protect the Spring stocks?

First: DFO incompetence, corruption & mismanagement created the problem. There is zero question of that.

Second: The BS regarding the "starving" / "threatened" orcas is just that - BS. They are fluctuating within the ranges of their recognized population numbers since we started recording them in the '40's. It is a convenient excuse.

Third: Although the diminutive troll fleet has had it's share of the pie drastically reduced over time (last year appx 10% of the sports catch) and the recreational sector has taken many hits regarding slot limits and area closures, the FN's have been granted ever increasing openings on these same stocks. To the point that last season, they were afforded more openings on threatened or endangered classified runs than ever historically.

Fourth: DFO just announced a new component of their ministry titled "Reconciliation and Partnerships (R&P) Branch" complete with an RDG and support staff. You can likely guess where that is headed, but if in doubt, pm me & I will send you the background letter from DFO.

Fifth: ZERO consideration to the vast economic impacts coastwide of these measures. Guides. Lodges, in fact entire Communities are being paced at risk by these ill advised actions.

How much more should I go into the description of "draconian" do you require to get it?

The actions that are required are not Rocket Science. Habitat has to be improved on a huge scale. Predation by seals & sea lions HAS to be addressed (currently taking ~ 45 % of the annual production of Chinook annually), and stock enhancement has to be ramped up demonstrably.

Instead, DFO has slashed habitat programs, turned a complete blind eye to predation issues and continue on with blanket protection of the worst offenders, and slashed hatchery budgets to the bone.

Of course all of those efforts require funding & dedication. Something both DFO, and their political masters have little intestinal fortitude in addressing. FAR easier to shut down the fisheries (for some) and say "Hey Look, We're are doing something" - when in fact they are not.

Sadly,
Nog

[Ken07AOVette]

The saddest part is now all that is going to happen for the sport fishermen that can no longer retain salmon is there will be a lot more dock sales and poaching.. 1 group will prosper selling fish to everyone.

[bowness]

Well said and simply a continuation of an inept and politically motivated department.

I worked as an observer on draggers in the 80's and 90's that cruised up and down the coast crushing and killing everything in their path. Now it seems their inexplicably blind eye to the impacts of this fishery on rock fish that mature late in their life cycle has come full circle. Instead of foresight they are simply reactionary and their reactions are not at all effective.

I had a dream to retire with my son doing a coastal guiding business. Might as well throw that out the window and maybe just start working for some American multinational influencing us little Canadians like guinea pigs.

[West O'5]

Originally Posted by IronNoggin

First: DFO incompetence, corruption & mismanagement created the problem. There is zero question of that.

Second: The BS regarding the "starving" / "threatened" orcas is just that - BS. They are fluctuating within the ranges of their recognized population numbers since we started recording them in the '40's. It is a convenient excuse.

Third: Although the diminutive troll fleet has had it's share of the pie drastically reduced over time (last year appx 10% of the sports catch) and the recreational sector has taken many hits regarding slot limits and area closures, the FN's have been granted ever increasing openings on these same stocks. To the point that last season, they were afforded more openings on threatened or endangered classified runs than ever historically.

Fourth: DFO just announced a new component of their ministry titled "Reconciliation and Partnerships (R&P) Branch" complete with an RDG and support staff. You can likely guess where that is headed, but if in doubt, pm me & I will send you the background letter from DFO.

Fifth: ZERO consideration to the vast economic impacts coastwide of these measures. Guides. Lodges, in fact entire Communities are being paced at risk by these ill advised actions.

How much more should I go into the description of "draconian" do you require to get it?

The actions that are required are not Rocket Science. Habitat has to be improved on a huge scale. Predation by seals & sea lions HAS to be addressed (currently taking ~ 45 % of the annual production of Chinook annually), and stock enhancement has to be ramped up demonstrably.

Instead, DFO has slashed habitat programs, turned a complete blind eye to predation issues and continue on with blanket protection of the worst offenders, and slashed hatchery budgets to the bone.

Of course all of those efforts require funding & dedication. Something both DFO, and their political masters have little intestinal fortitude in addressing. FAR easier to shut down the fisheries (for some) and say "Hey Look, We're are doing something" - when in fact they are not.

Sadly,
Nog

WOW!!
Disturbingly all to familiar.😢
Looks like almost an exact carbon copy clone of DFO’s mismanagement of Atlantic Salmon on the east coast over the last 3-4 decades,to the point now that what few watersheds have any remaining salmon are now either completely closed to angling or if angling is allowed it’s zero retention......unless of course you are born with a certain privelaged pedigree,then you can string a gillnet across the Miramichi and illegally sell salmon off the back of your truck with impunity at the Blackville liquor store.
Ceremonial purposes redefined.....convert endangered salmon into beer money Friday afternoon and party all weekend.🖕

[IronNoggin]

Originally Posted by West O'5

Ceremonial purposes redefined.....convert endangered salmon into beer money Friday afternoon and party all weekend.🖕

Even under the current restrictions, that is openly and blatantly occurring:

Before the ad was pulled, it had over thousand hits and a hundred shares on 1 forum.
Likely seen by 10,000 people.
Now removed as one very similar was too:

"https://vancouver.craigslist.org/van...926013492.html

Fresh Frazer River Salmon - $20 (Hope B.C)
© craigslist - Map data © OpenStreetMap
(google map)

Hi there, we're happy to report we have fresh Spring Salmon available for sale by the pound @4.00 dollars per. SOCKEYE have arrived and are 20.00 dollars each. Text if possible or email.

show contact info
Ask for Chris or Ashley.

Let's make a deal. Larger orders can get a reduced price per fish
do NOT contact me with unsolicited services or offers
post id: 6926013492"
...........................................

FN openings were "supposed" to be "very restrictive in nature, and extremely limited as to number."
There have been over 50 DFO sanctioned in-river FN openings since the restrictions on Chinook were applied to every other sector.
Those openings occurred (and are occurring) on the most endangered runs of springs the Fraser has.

Very much a Tragedy, and one created directly by DFO catering to Blackmail Demands from the Fraser FN's.
There is some indication that the Minister may have been directed in these actions by the PMO.

MarkG: While I do applaud you attempting to define a solution, there is MUCH more at play here than a single cycle closure would turn around. I will get back to this thread and elaborate when I have a few minutes to do it some justice...

Nog

[bowness]

You hit it out of the park Nog!!

But alas we are all called racists for pointing out government sanctioned racist legislation.
Now (and historically) we are paying the wages and operating costs of departments in government that are designated to enhance and perpetuate racist ideology.

Our societies uninformed city voters are our real enemy. How can we ever truly create change when they hold so many votes and are mesmerized by leftist conformism?

[pikeman06]

Originally Posted by Jayhad

How is this Draconian and what actions would you suggest to protect the Spring stocks?

The seals will be happy at least.

[Mr Flyguy]

Originally Posted by Jayhad

How is this Draconian and what actions would you suggest to protect the Spring stocks?

Cull seals and sea lions, and while you're at it the orcas.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Mr Flyguy

Cull seals and sea lions, and while you're at it the orcas.

Stopping netting and fishing of spawning salmon on the rivers would make a hell of a lot bigger difference than killing seals sea lions and orca.

[Sundancefisher]

There used to be lots of small business owner commercial fishermen and then big business started buying licences and controlling catch rate, timing and sales. Patterson group is one of them.

My question is the salmon quota and fishery as stupid a process as halibut wherein the government gave free quotas out to individuals and then most of them stopped fishing and just sold or leased there quota?

On a cost benefit analysis where is the value to the economy? Sport fishing or commercial fishing? Does it make more sense to keep the sport fishing going flat and curtail commercial guys? How impacted are Commercial fishermen?

I think the quota system commercial to sport fishing is rigged in favour of big business padding politicians pockets with stronger lobbying as the sport fishing lobby in Canada is weak...weak...weak compared to the US.

I see commercial is starting late. As runs are genetically distinct over periods of time putting massive pressure at the end will wipe out late running chinooks.

How about stopping all commercial harvest in oceans and rivers?

[IronNoggin]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

Stopping netting and fishing of spawning salmon on the rivers would make a hell of a lot bigger difference than killing seals sea lions and orca.

Close but not quite. Currently seals & sea lions consume around 45 - 50 % of all the chinook and coho that smolt from the Fraser River. HUGE impact. We'll simply take his killer whale comment for what it was worth - as in nada.

On the other hand, around 75 K or so chinook spawners are killed by FN's in the same river each year, with Fishless Ocean's blessing. Translates to one hell of a lot of potential smolts the following year.

But nope, let's curtail everyone one else, and tuck our heads firmly up our backsides instead...

Nog

[bowness]

Putting netting and angling in the same context is irresponsible. Nets are in essence non specific and release is not practical. Catch and release of salmon in non tidal waters is ethical and successful in most cases. Why do particular recreational fishing groups do this divisional politicizing?

If anything non tidal anglers are at the last minute whim of any fisheries management and due to the ineptitude of the department they take the brunt. Just because ocean boys cannot necessarily be made accountable for affects on particular river systems they do have an impact.

[ReconWilly]

Reminds me of when England joined the EU, then the English were forced to destroy their fishing boats and go on welfare so that the other EU nations could fish their waters...

The resource's of the country of Canada have been sold to the United Abominations to be centrally controlled, collected and distributed by who they appoint, those are not Canada's resource's any longer in the eye's of those who have sold us out.

Oil, fish, lumber,and soon to be wheat, water, uranium,potash,cattle and all of Canada's other resource's, the time to fight back is yesterday.

Agenda 21 and 2030 are very real and will effect every Canadian in many very negative ways.

[kilgoretrout]

https://flyfusionforums.com/board/to...comment-206748

Perhaps some truth here:

[husky hunter]

Just wondering if the millions of tons of raw sewage and toxic chemicals Vancouver and Victoria dump in the ocean would have any effect on the fisheries. They should be back soon to recheck the oil sands to make sure we are up to their exacting environmental standards. Socialist idiots.

[Ken07AOVette]

Skeena First Nations call for closure of recreational Chinook fishery

How is this anything but greed? I am quite certain nobody eats chinook salmon 3 times a day 365 days per year.

I wonder how many Billion $ it will take to stop this? I could puke. (read the highlighted part below, carefully)

https://www.cfnrfm.ca/2019/07/25/668...GSILhAneatDl-g

First Nations along the Skeena Watershed are calling on the Department of Fisheries and Oceans to close the recreational Chinook salmon fishery.

The Gitxsan, the Wet’suwet’en, and Gitanyow, who rely on salmon for food and cultural purposes, are sounding the alarm about this year’s salmon returns to the Skeena River

The Nations say they are considering not engaging in any food fishery for Sockeye over concerns that returns of the prized species are not plentiful enough to maintain it in future years.

“We encourage all First Nations to conserve sockeye this year. Conservation of the salmon resource, which has sustained our culture, communities, and families for millennia is paramount. DFO needs to enforce closures. The sockeye shortage this year will result in First Nations families running short of their preferred food this winter, and any time we can’t fish or get enough fish there is a significant cultural impact.” said Wet’suwet’en Chief Namoks (John Ridsdale) in a news release.

Due to the sockeye shortage, the Nations plan to harvest as much Chinook as possible and say all fish beyond what is required for conservation should be available to their communities for food.

“We need DFO to understand the plain facts and act in accordance with Canadian law which gives First Nations a priority right to salmon after conservation needs are met. The numbers show that there is no surplus of Skeena Chinook for any non-First Nations harvest. The recreational fishery for Chinook in the Skeena River and bound for the Skeena River has to be closed now to preserve that valuable food for our people,” said Charlie Muldon, Coordinator of the Gitksan Watershed Authorities.

[Drewski Canuck]

Is there a bigger poker game going on here?

As it stands, most of the FNs in BC have not settled their land claims, and based on the many decades these claims have been going on, i have to wonder if there is a deal based on this deal in the works?

The treaty dealing with the White Rock - Tsawassen band gave them 1 % of the Fraser River salmon run, given that there was so little land to hand out because of development on the local area.

If there is no trade off on salmon for a larger land claims settlement on the BC Coast, then I am left to wonder what it will take to get those land claims settled.

In Australia the Indigenous land claims were settled by a Commission that had 10 years to hold hearings and get the matter dealt with. In Canada, we have an INDUSTRY of consultants, accountants, historians, and lawyers, that are all costing the tax payer millions on millions, each year.

All the same, the restrain of the Skeena Bands to focus only on the Chinook runs, really is going to mean nothing, when their members then go after Sockeye with no repercussions from the very Bands that the members belong to.

Drewski

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck

Is there a bigger poker game going on here?

As it stands, most of the FNs in BC have not settled their land claims, and based on the many decades these claims have been going on, i have to wonder if there is a deal based on this deal in the works?

The treaty dealing with the White Rock - Tsawassen band gave them 1 % of the Fraser River salmon run, given that there was so little land to hand out because of development on the local area.

If there is no trade off on salmon for a larger land claims settlement on the BC Coast, then I am left to wonder what it will take to get those land claims settled.

In Australia the Indigenous land claims were settled by a Commission that had 10 years to hold hearings and get the matter dealt with. In Canada, we have an INDUSTRY of consultants, accountants, historians, and lawyers, that are all costing the tax payer millions on millions, each year.

All the same, the restrain of the Skeena Bands to focus only on the Chinook runs, really is going to mean nothing, when their members then go after Sockeye with no repercussions from the very Bands that the members belong to.

Drewski

Yes!

First Nations in Canada won't stop until they are in charge again.
To them, this is a money and power grab.

Governments around the world and business see opportunity to reshuffle the deck of who owns what. To them, this is a money and power grab.

[Ken07AOVette]

http://steelheadvoices.com/?p=1643&f...ld6agVeXiMd_qo

[bowness]

They are completely full of sh*t but the voters in Canada think they are all saints living "off the land". Not sure if KFC is considered that LOL

Until the truthful aspirations of FN's is exposed (simple greed) and we document data related to how much they actually eat per person compared to the amount they sell then the cultural bologna they espouse will have free reign free.

But try and do that and you are labelled a racist and all political will washes away.
We need our own blockades, our own rebellion against the leftist status quo of appeasement with no accountability. That is how race wars start.

[bowness]

People will look back at this time period as historically the "Age of hypocrisy"

[bowness]

"very little ceremonial accessuntil july 14."

Real meaning "sell fish freely as per usual", circumvent population harvest controls at will while other law abiding Canadians watch you decimate what's left.

Of course, its "your land". Not in MY BOOKS.