Not criminally responsible??

[ICE HOLE]

I wonder if this forum would be considered a jury of Mr. Li's peers?

Why would we stop at euthanizing the mentally ill? There are a great number of other illnesses and human conditions that are uncurable and or untreatable and those individuals are also a danger to society. Lets take, for instance, a person (or should we call them garbage, freak, mofoe, sub-human etc.) with a highly contagious ailment. I say we don't hospitalize them and try to cure them I say we kill them, as humanely as possible of course.

I think that trying to get the police to commit murder also has merit. I just hope that someday one of us doesn't get stopped for a taffic violation with a hunting knife on our belt or a rifle on the back seat and a police officer doesn't mistake that for aggression. I suppose he could take the knife out of sheath and place it by the dead body and chalk it up as collateral damage and for the greater good.

Oh and don't let it concern you that some shrink considers our statements and ideas as sub-human and antisocial. What would they know anyway?

We macho rednecks have a reputation to maintain and I'm sure glad we can do it anonymously and with impunity on this forum.

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by ICE HOLE

I wonder if this forum would be considered a jury of Mr. Li's peers?

Why would we stop at euthanizing the mentally ill? There are a great number of other illnesses and human conditions that are uncurable and or untreatable and those individuals are also a danger to society. Lets take, for instance, a person (or should we call them garbage, freak, mofoe, sub-human etc.) with a highly contagious ailment. I say we don't hospitalize them and try to cure them I say we kill them, as humanely as possible of course.

I think that trying to get the police to commit murder also has merit. I just hope that someday one of us doesn't get stopped for a taffic violation with a hunting knife on our belt or a rifle on the back seat and a police officer doesn't mistake that for aggression. I suppose he could take the knife out of sheath and place it by the dead body and chalk it up as collateral damage and for the greater good.

Oh and don't let it concern you that some shrink considers our statements and ideas as sub-human and antisocial. What would they know anyway?

We macho rednecks have a reputation to maintain and I'm sure glad we can do it anonymously and with impunity on this forum.

Wow those are really off the wall ideas but whatever?? Everyone has an opinion.

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

Wow those are really off the wall ideas but whatever?? Everyone has an opinion.

Opinion - An opinion is like an ashhole , everyone has one , just some have bigger and smaller ones .

[honda450]

Hang em. Hang em high. Now Jester your gettin carried away with the price of ammo now adays.

[whitetailsheds]

Originally Posted by AxeMan

X2 Walleyes. This kind of insanity cannot be fixed and shouldn't even be attempted. IMHO

Yes, this kind of insanity can be fixed. I have worked in psychiatry for 22 years, and currently work with 2 that have murdered (one 25 years ago, the other 15). Both are productive working people, one with a family.
Both are cooperative to recieving treatment, and are well aware of thier illness and what symptoms they experience if decompensating.

[Knownonscents]

Originally Posted by whitetailsheds

Yes, this kind of insanity can be fixed. I have worked in psychiatry for 22 years, and currently work with 2 that have murdered (one 25 years ago, the other 15). Both are productive working people, one with a family.
Both are cooperative to recieving treatment, and are well aware of thier illness and what symptoms they experience if decompensating.

Personally, I dont care if its treatable or not. why should these people be given second chances, when the kid with no head is not. What if he had kids?. what about the rest of his family? they dont have a second chance to even let there relative have a peaceful death. Nope. no second chances there. Same goes for rapists or child molesters, etc.. The victim has no second chances. Only ****ed up memories, if they live, for the rest of there lives. Do I have pity for him. Absolutely. Do I have tolerance.....FOCK no.

[trophyboy]

This one is cause for the death penalty. Someone please explain to me what good it is to keep monsters like this alive??

Another example of too much time and resources focused on a worthless piece of trash instead of the victim and his family. Something has got to change!!

[roadkill]

I think that main problem with going back to a capital-punishment society is that the first mistake you make kind of eradicates the nebulous benefits. Even if we were to reduce lives to dollar figures, David Milgaard was awarded 10 million bucks over a wrongful conviction. Can you imagine what his family would have asked for if he'd been executed?

On a more important level, though: if Milgaard had been hanged, then maybe nobody would have ever known that he was innocent, his family would have had a mediatised rapist and murderer looking in its history, and Larry Fisher would never have had to pay for his crime.

In cases like the Greyhound affair, it's very clear that he did it. It dosn't look like he was mentally competent at the time, though. And that makes everything turn *really* murky. If he is found to have been mentally incompetent at the time, he'll probably spend the rest of his days (or at least several decades) in an institution. This would not be a case for a few years of treatment and a quick release. His sickness is just to severe, if the reports are right.

Is it just and fair? Not to the mother of the victim, no. But to live with schitzophrenia is literally to live a nightmare. Is it better to cure the perp of his daily terrors or to let him suffer to years to come?

My feelings are on the side of keeping him in a hospital and using him for science, but honestly, I'm not smart enough to really know the answer -- and this sort of decision should never be made while the anger's still in the air, anyway.

[Lt Dan]

Originally Posted by 378 Wthrby

I just wonder why the RCMP officers didn't pull the trigger on him...

Because the elite lefties would want to charge the officer for murdering a handicapped person. stupid society we live in.

[AxeMan]

Originally Posted by whitetailsheds

Yes, this kind of insanity can be fixed. I have worked in psychiatry for 22 years, and currently work with 2 that have murdered (one 25 years ago, the other 15). Both are productive working people, one with a family.
Both are cooperative to recieving treatment, and are well aware of thier illness and what symptoms they experience if decompensating.

What, treat him and release him? Until he snaps again. Remember, he was considered normal until this incident (sick brutal murder). It was reported he was a quiet hard working citizen. Someday, some shrink says he is treated and okay and he is back out in public again. How many of us would want to be riding on a bus with this guy then?

Treatable mental illness is one thing but this guy is way beyond that. Where would you draw the line, WTS? I guess Charles Manson is treatable as well. In my books, anyone who commits murder is nuts but that is no excuse to be let off the hook for it.

[Copidosoma]

Originally Posted by 378 Wthrby

I just wonder why the RCMP officers didn't pull the trigger on him when they approached the bus and he came at them with the knife. I believe they could have save us hard working tax payers alot of money by just doin what needed to be done. Who could be rehabilitated after you viciously kill someone and then chomp on their remains. There isn't anyone who would forget or get over that. Cops should have stepped up and tagged him right behind the ear.
Problem solved...."REHABILITATED"
just my 2 cents

Perhaps if he was armed with a stapler they would have.

[Jester]

Did any of you guys read page 3 of yesterdays Edmonton Sun?

Li ate parts of Tim's flesh including most of his heart.

Police also say that they never did find Tim's eyeballs..wtf?

Ok...this is just my opinion but..If a Pitbull attacks and bites a child it is best to put the pitbull down because it will just be a matter of time before that Pitbull strikes again..

No.....I'm not a dog hater so don't even go there ok?

So the news just said that the Psycho will be going to an institution and once/if he completes it and gets "cured" he could go just about anywhere. If I were a member of that boys family Id make sure Li was never seen again.

sick and twisted world we have.

[CaberTosser]

All along I've questioned why the RCMP didn't perforate him at the scene. It'd make him much easier to handcuff. With a busload of witnesses and perhaps the most compelling evidence of guilt ever short of commiting the crime in a courtroom before a judge and jury it'd be a pretty easy sell as being necessary self defense if done correctly.

I submit that any person thinking that Li should ever be released be the person to house him. Their beds would be in the same room and the walls would be covered with magnetic strips with knives placed conveniently within reach everywhere. Perhaps we could house them in a Greyhound thats been parked and boarded up securely from the outside. See how sure they are that Li's been "rehabilitated" then.

We really need to reform our "Justice System" back to serving the greater good of our well-behaved citizens, rather than the self-regulating, self-perpetuating "law industry" that it has become. Whatever happened to a good old "hanging Judge"?

[whitetailsheds]

Originally Posted by AxeMan

What, treat him and release him? Until he snaps again. Remember, he was considered normal until this incident (sick brutal murder). It was reported he was a quiet hard working citizen. Someday, some shrink says he is treated and okay and he is back out in public again. How many of us would want to be riding on a bus with this guy then?

Treatable mental illness is one thing but this guy is way beyond that. Where would you draw the line, WTS? I guess Charles Manson is treatable as well. In my books, anyone who commits murder is nuts but that is no excuse to be let off the hook for it.

Unfortunately? fortunately? (i guess it depends who you are), that's the way our system is. When I first heard about this horrific CRIME, I had the same response as many on here, still do. He should be, at the very least, locked up for good.
My response here was not defending Li, but being in the field I thought this was a perfect time to speak up (even though I side tracked the topic, which was Li) for those that do suffer from mental illness. I thought the thread was becoming a "slam mental illness" rant.
Personally, and professionally, mental illness is part of my life. And I bet there is a large number on here that know of someone (if not themselves) that is influenced by it as well.
A wife that has experienced post partum depression, extreme enough to experience thoughts of killing her newborn.
A family member that has such severe anxiety that they can't leave there home.
A grandmother that hears the voice of her husband that's been dead for 12 years.
Your aging mom, living at home on her own leaving the stove on, or walking out the door with nothing on but her pj's in -40 weather as dementia starts to run/ ruin her life.
Anyways, enough of my Mental Health Awareness Education Day. I've seen and dealt with some pretty unreal human behavior, the stuff that makes you shake your head and say "WTF?"
This is the extreme end of things. Most of my experiences are very rewarding, and know that mental illnesses can be treated.
I'm with you Axe, any one that commits murder should be locked up indefinately. Not out in 5 years, or 16 years. Life. No get out of jail for free.

[NCR Changes]

I thought I'd enlighten you with my experience of NCR.

Stephan Lee on November 7, 2004 gained access to a co-workers hotel room at the Delta Hotel in Kananaskis by tricking security and stabbed Steven Tavares 28 times, in the heart, spleen and liver...8 times in the chest, shoulders and arms and 11 times in the back. He was charged with first degree murder and fit to stand trial. He was found Not Criminally Responsible due to Mental Disorder and sent to Alberta Hospital December of 2005.

This patient has been given numerous privileges during his stay and as of May 2008 has been conditionally released. He now is living in the Edmonton Area and has a full time job. He is permitted to visit Calgary at his leisure and anywhere within in Canada for up to 10 days unsupervised.

All of this is without notification to the victim’s family and friends or the public.

In the Alberta Review Board’s disposition regarding this patients conditional release it says the following: “The Alberta Review Board is of the opinion that Stephan Lee is a significant threat to the safety of the public.”

Let it also be known that Lee does NOT have a criminal record because of the Not Criminally Responsible verdict.

So, those of you that think Vincent Li will be locked up for a long time are sadly mistaken. He too will be conditionally released within the next few years b/c he too will respond well to the medication. The problem is that no one guarantees that he takes these meds and the reintegration back into society takes place while these individuals still pose a threat to public safety.

There needs to be changes to the NCR laws!

If any of you are interested I have a petition:

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/...le-policy.html

Or, you can email me at ncrchanges@gmail.com for more information.

[Frusterated@ignorence]

I am currently in my second year of criminal justice and am writing a paper on Not Criminally Responsible legislation. I came across this form and have been shocked at how many people have NO CLUE as to what they are saying. My heart goes out to Tim's Family and friends. However, killing a person with a mental illness will not bring Tim back. With Vincent Lee being found Not Criminally Responsible due to mental illness (Correct term in Canada) is without a doubt the best thing for public safety. The chance Vincent Lee will be held in a psychiatric facility for the remainder of his life is greater than if he was sent to prison for the murder and was never released because once a person is found guilty and served their sentence it is out of our hands. Many people with mental illnesses are capable of being contributing members of society with the help and treatment and it is unfortunate that Vincent Lee did not get the help he require before this horrific incident occurred. Each year Vincent Lee will be review by the Ontario Review board, made up of Dr's chosen by our political leaders which means that they will most likely belong to and have conservative political views--- and while Vincent Lee is reviewed these Dr's will take into account his actions and the victims pain and suffering which will increase his stay in a psychiatric facility. I would suggest to people to do their homework... you look very foolish when you say things that are not facts. I can understand the anger and outrage because this case is extremely horrifying but let's remember it is only 1 case.

RIP Tim

[RandyBoBandy]

I was listening to Rutherford or Adler, he had some psychiatrist (with all the "ologies and oscopies" behind his name) saying that Lee was primary candidate for the treatment and rehabilitaion process. He did not have any addictions of any sort, alcohol and drugs and no codependency issues with regards to either. The doctor went on to say that Lee was very very compliant with all help being offered. The doctor also admitted that he could see Lee being let out within 10 years easily and perhaps even sooner.

[CaberTosser]

Originally Posted by Frusterated@ignorence

I am currently in my second year of criminal justice and am writing a paper on Not Criminally Responsible legislation. I came across this form and have been shocked at how many people have NO CLUE as to what they are saying. My heart goes out to Tim's Family and friends. However, killing a person with a mental illness will not bring Tim back. With Vincent Lee being found Not Criminally Responsible due to mental illness (Correct term in Canada) is without a doubt the best thing for public safety. The chance Vincent Lee will be held in a psychiatric facility for the remainder of his life is greater than if he was sent to prison for the murder and was never released because once a person is found guilty and served their sentence it is out of our hands. Many people with mental illnesses are capable of being contributing members of society with the help and treatment and it is unfortunate that Vincent Lee did not get the help he require before this horrific incident occurred. Each year Vincent Lee will be review by the Ontario Review board, made up of Dr's chosen by our political leaders which means that they will most likely belong to and have conservative political views--- and while Vincent Lee is reviewed these Dr's will take into account his actions and the victims pain and suffering which will increase his stay in a psychiatric facility. I would suggest to people to do their homework... you look very foolish when you say things that are not facts. I can understand the anger and outrage because this case is extremely horrifying but let's remember it is only 1 case.

RIP Tim

Lets hope that the future of our countries criminal justice experts can spell "frustrated" and "ignorance" at some point in their post-secondary career.

I believe if you read it carefully, ICEHOLE's post was actually sarcasm, though at times its difficult to tell until his closing statement. Both of you are oversimplifying the issue at hand. We're not saying to go out and kill every single person suffering a mental illness, or those who are harbouring deadly contagious diseases. I am however promoting that we have the option of the death penalty being applied to those people who commit heinous acts of murder or horrifically violent rape's and assaults. It's not a final solution application where we go out and slaughter every mentally ill person whether or not they've done anything; then move on to clean out those with Down's syndrome and the hospices housing AIDs patients as ICEHOLE insinuated we'd be doing. Far from it. I'm talking about personal responsibility for ones actions. If the government, lawyers and those in the medical community keep pushing the boundaries that they are, who will ever be accountable for anything at all? A line has to be drawn..... many have to be redrawn. One simple word : Accountability

There are two possible answers to whether or not someone commited a criminal act. To me the only acceptable answers are : "Yes" or "No". People are always responsible for their acts; without that primary tenet, anarchy is eminent.

I'm sure many people with mental illnesses can be upstanding members of society. I welcome them. I don't welcome murderous cannibals. Its pretty easy to differentiate the two.

I hope you take a course in political science or perhaps read a few newspapers and discover that Ontario is certainly not a bastion of conservative political opinions, nor in any overwhelming majority is the medical community. Thanks for suggesting we do our homework, we appreciate irony here.

[Jamie]

Well my thoughts in a nut shell are this..

Kill him..
Sure he might have been crazy at the time, but what use to society is he now. Perhaps he can be rehabed. But like a above poster said can we trust him to stay on his Meds? Even if locking him up for the rest of his life is punishment enough, why should I pay for that crazy to eat?

Lets see the death penalty back.

If ANYONE has the audicty to take another humans life, they need to be culled from the herd. I dont care if your MENTALY sick or not. Sure it might not be your fault if you are sick.. But we should have no use for you after that. Wack em and stack em.

Cops should have shot him would have saved some time and $$$
This guy and all others who are like him have no place in our world.
For the Moms who kill kids.. WACK EM
For the Psycos who kill.. WACK EM
For the cop killers.. WACK EM
For the Dads who kill Kids.. WACK EM
For all the rest of the scum buckets (Sick or otherwise)..WACK EM

Sorry no sympathy for anyone who does this.

Jamie

[acedave3]

What I have trouble getting my mind around is why NOBODY, made any effort to jump this little Bas.... and grab the arm holding the knife. As I recall there were several strong young guys walking or running past the poor victim as he was screaming for help, then standing outside the bus, talking to reporters about how scary it was!!! If one person had taken the initiative others would have helped I am sure. I know what I would have done, without any hesitation and that would be to jump this guy. I couldnt live with myself otherwise.
Does this make sense??????!!!