Ariel Sharon Dies

[JimPS]

He's really been dead for the past 8 years - anyways - I'm sure he's now living in a much warmer place instead of being connected up to the cold life support machines.
RIP brave soldier.

[brownbomber]

Everybody who said good riddance to Nelson Mandela now say the same about Ariel Sharon?

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by brownbomber

Everybody who said good riddance to Nelson Mandela now say the same about Ariel Sharon?

Little more sympathy for Sharon, you've got to have an iron fist to survive in that part of the world, if you're Jewish and a democracy, but for all intents he did die 8 years ago. Betting it was just his status that kept them from pulling the plug.

Grizz

[TomCanuck]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

Little more sympathy for Sharon, you've got to have an iron fist to survive in that part of the world, if you're Jewish and a democracy, but for all intents he did die 8 years ago. Betting it was just his status that kept them from pulling the plug.

Grizz

Yup, one wonders if the lefties would change their tune if Canadian towns were rocketed on a regular basis.

[richard steinberg]

1 00 % agree

[brownbomber]

Originally Posted by TomCanuck

Yup, one wonders if the lefties would change their tune if Canadian towns were rocketed on a regular basis.

Or if they were only allowed to hold certain jobs and be in certain parts of town.

[Selkirk]

.
Like him or not, Sharon had quite the life ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariel_Sharon

Mac

[444 marlin]

Originally Posted by brownbomber

Everybody who said good riddance to Nelson Mandela now say the same about Ariel Sharon?

My understanding is that sharon massacerd people in a refugee camp.

[EZM]

Hero or Tyrant .........? ......depends on who is writing the obituary.

[brslk]

Originally Posted by EZM

Hero or Tyrant .........? ......depends on who is writing the obituary.

Actually, I haven't read about anyone calling him a hero or tyrant.
He was a major figure in the history of the region and even his enemies held a certain amount of respect for him.

[recce43]

He was a hell of a tank commander in the 1967 war ...

[greylynx]

Originally Posted by recce43

He was a hell of a tank commander in the 1967 war ...

You beat me to it......

One heck of a little army.

[grouse_hunter]

So American taxpayers kept him alive for 8 years? Lol, funny how history changes depending on who writes it down.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by brownbomber

Or if they were only allowed to hold certain jobs and be in certain parts of town.

Or had their homes occupied.

Or had 100% retaliation for an act defiance.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by 444 marlin

My understanding is that sharon massacerd people in a refugee camp.

What I read about it was that he stood by and let another group carry out the massacre.

[greylynx]

Oh Oh:

Maybe this guy was not so good.

I better go sit on the fence on this one.

[rwm1273]

Not sure I would group Sharon with some of the other Israeli leadership who systematically keep the Palestinians downtrodden.

He may have done things that he may need to answer for, but I don't think he was an evil man.

[Gray Wolf]

Originally Posted by 444 marlin

My understanding is that sharon massacerd people in a refugee camp.

That's nothin! I heard he ate little babies for breakfast

[rwm1273]

In 1983, a UN commission chaired by Sean MacBride concluded that Israel bore responsibility for the violence because they failed to prevent it. In 1983, the Israeli Kahan Commission, appointed to investigate the incident, found that Israeli military personnel, aware that a massacre was in progress, had failed to take serious steps to stop it. Thus Israel was indirectly responsible, while Ariel Sharon, then Defense Minister, bore personal responsibility "for ignoring the danger of bloodshed and revenge", forcing him to resign.

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by Gray Wolf

That's nothin! I heard he ate little babies for breakfast

Really, did he cook them or eat them raw?

[TomCanuck]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

In 1983, a UN commission chaired by Sean MacBride concluded that Israel bore responsibility for the violence because they failed to prevent it. In 1983, the Israeli Kahan Commission, appointed to investigate the incident, found that Israeli military personnel, aware that a massacre was in progress, had failed to take serious steps to stop it. Thus Israel was indirectly responsible, while Ariel Sharon, then Defense Minister, bore personal responsibility "for ignoring the danger of bloodshed and revenge", forcing him to resign.

Ah, the UN. Not an overly objective organization. More of a moribund joke in this day and age. Personally, I would not take any UN finding as the objective truth.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by TomCanuck

Ah, the UN. Not an overly objective organization. More of a moribund joke in this day and age. Personally, I would not take any UN finding as the objective truth.

Not all of the UN is incompetent and full of crap. Trust me, I work for them, and can assure you that there are many good people working unpleasant jobs.

I will agree that the top end of the UN is all smoke and mirrors.

Before you go and dismiss the report, you may want to read more about it.

[TomCanuck]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

Not all of the UN is incompetent and full of crap. Trust me, I work for them, and can assure you that there are many good people working unpleasant jobs.

I will agree that the top end of the UN is all smoke and mirrors.

Before you go and dismiss the report, you may want to read more about it.

When the battle is an existential one, the only unforgivable sin is defeat. Most Canadians of this day and age don't possess the frame of reference needed to judge the Israelis in an objective and fair way. Instead they are bombarded with biased bs from the MSM and the UN.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by TomCanuck

When the battle is an existential one, the only unforgivable sin is defeat. Most Canadians of this day and age don't possess the frame of reference needed to judge the Israelis in an objective and fair way. Instead they are bombarded with biased bs from the MSM and the UN.

Perhaps that is your opinion. I see little in the way of the MSN trying to hold Israel accountable for their actions against the average Palestinians. And this is in direct contravention of the many UN resolutions on the rights of the Palestinians, as well as open condemnation from more UN resolutions and many EU nations for the occupation of Palestinian lands.

Israel has systematically removed rights and prevented the Palestinians a right to live in their home lands. They have been subjected to arrest for nothing other than being Palestinian, and they have had their homes occupied without compensation. And now they are being surrounded by a wall which is akin to w ghetto. Sounds pretty much like what the Nazis did to the Jews in the 1930s.

I do have sympathy for those innocent people on both sides who have been killed in this ongoing war. However I think you need to do some more reading on the subject before you speak about bias.

[JimPS]

Originally Posted by TomCanuck

When the battle is an existential one, the only unforgivable sin is defeat. Most Canadians of this day and age don't possess the frame of reference needed to judge the Israelis in an objective and fair way. Instead they are bombarded with biased bs from the MSM and the UN.

When you're on the winning team - you become a national hero to some.
If you're on the losing team - you're automatically a war criminal.
Many Israelis with an "objective frame of reference" don't consider Sharon as as one of the good guys.

[444 marlin]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

What I read about it was that he stood by and let another group carry out the massacre.

I thought I heard about him doing that,The whole bunch of those guys at one time were terrorists.what was the guy with the eye patch?

[TomCanuck]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

Perhaps that is your opinion. I see little in the way of the MSN trying to hold Israel accountable for their actions against the average Palestinians. And this is in direct contravention of the many UN resolutions on the rights of the Palestinians, as well as open condemnation from more UN resolutions and many EU nations for the occupation of Palestinian lands.

Israel has systematically removed rights and prevented the Palestinians a right to live in their home lands. They have been subjected to arrest for nothing other than being Palestinian, and they have had their homes occupied without compensation. And now they are being surrounded by a wall which is akin to w ghetto. Sounds pretty much like what the Nazis did to the Jews in the 1930s.

I do have sympathy for those innocent people on both sides who have been killed in this ongoing war. However I think you need to do some more reading on the subject before you speak about bias.

If a, "marginalized" group in Canada started a significant terror campaign against civilians, how long do you think it would be till the gloves came off? I'm thinking it would not be too damned long. Didn't take Trudeau long to say, "just watch me", did it?

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by TomCanuck

If a, "marginalized" group in Canada started a significant terror campaign against civilians, how long do you think it would be till the gloves came off? I'm thinking it would not be too damned long. Didn't take Trudeau long to say, "just watch me", did it?

We are not talking about Canada here, and there is no comparison to the plight of the Palestinians and to the FLQ.

It seems you have a very limited understanding of the conflict.

[TomCanuck]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

We are not talking about Canada here, and there is no comparison to the plight of the Palestinians and to the FLQ.

It seems you have a very limited understanding of the conflict.

In your opinion maybe.

The simple fact is, that if getting on a city bus, or going out for pizza, brings significant risk of violent death to civilians, the government ( any government ) will be compelled to take serious action against the threat.

If you choose to ignore this fact, then enjoy your ignorant bliss.

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by brownbomber

Everybody who said good riddance to Nelson Mandela now say the same about Ariel Sharon?

I think unless you live in these countries or at least actually spend some time on the ground there, the Canadian opinion is shaped by the media. and the shape it takes depends on who controls the media.

I spent a month in South Africa and found that what I thought was the reality was not even close. I'm by no means an expert, but I do know what I saw.