Mainstream racism??

[brownbomber]

Originally Posted by rugatika

I agree with you. Here in Alberta/Canada white males are the majority and have in the past typically been the power wielders.

To me, it doesn't matter who or why a differentiation is being made on how to treat a person based on skin color or gender. Everyone should be treated equal.

Frankly, if I was a minority I'd be the most peeved about affirmative action. You've just put a question mark over everyone's head about why they have the job they have. Merit or affirmative action?

Agree with you there rugatika I find it patronizing to think my standards should be lower. I don't need anybody to pat me on the head and say you're not quite good enough but....
All people want is a equal shot, in the not so distant past it would have been pretty hard to get into a lot if professions, with what society was. But it's a lot easier to focus on what society now is. Make sense?

[ali#1]

Originally Posted by Mistagin

Racism against white folks? Yup - under the guise of affirmative action.

Year ago I worked for my Dad and his partner. As their business was thriving and growing they wanted to hire a couple more people, so they talked to government employment agencies about funding help for training. They were told they could hire any white folks they wanted to - after hiring a certain number of 'minorities'. Sad to say, but nobody got a job - and that's because no minorities applied!

I experienced it myself back when I was a young feller. I wanted to get into a particular line of work, did very well on tests, but didn't get hired. When I asked why - and found out my test results were considerably better than those who were hired, I was basically told I was the wrong colour

Oh well, there was lots of other opportunity so I went in a few different directions over the years and have been blessed to enjoy a lot of different 'careers' - and met a lot of great people along the way.

I remember a friend from years ago who was a person of colour (although I do believe white is a colour too!) saying, "we all bleed the same colour!"

White is a tone not a colour

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by brownbomber

Agree with you there rugatika I find it patronizing to think my standards should be lower. I don't need anybody to pat me on the head and say you're not quite good enough but....
All people want is a equal shot, in the not so distant past it would have been pretty hard to get into a lot if professions, with what society was. But it's a lot easier to focus on what society now is. Make sense?

What a crock, since when is the colour of a persons skin a lowering of standards?? Some guys just think they should get hired first because they are white, or were born with a silver spoon up the arse.

[brownbomber]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

What a crock, since when is the colour of a persons skin a lowering of standards?? Some guys just think they should get hired first because they are white, or were born with a silver spoon up the arse.

I don't think you understand. We mean when a position is filled because a applicant is a minority and the hiring standard is lower, or college entrance etc etc. I believe in achievement on our own merits. I can feel what you're saying though being older than me and all. I've never had issues getting a job but 30 years ago I would have had issues doing what I do. The past sucks but that water has gone downstream and we aren't getting it back.

[elkhunter11]

I don't think you understand. We mean when a position is filled because a applicant is a minority and the hiring standard is lower, or college entrance etc etc. I believe in achievement on our own merits.

Exactly, I have seen lesser qualified, and in fact even unqualified applicants hired, strictly because of their race.

[Gust]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Exactly, I have seen lesser qualified, and in fact even unqualified applicants hired, strictly because of who they knew.

... nephew of the boss, god daughter of the secretary, right fraternity, member of the lodge, et al...

believe it or not, some white people are not quite up to standard either and some of colour are overqualified.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by ali#1

Why is it that people on the right side of the political spectrum only see racism when it's against white people ? I'm not saying racism is cool or acceptable to or against anybody, I'm just trying to figure out why my friends on the right only see it one way?.

I don't see racism when it is only against white people. I do see it when aimed at anyone. Racism is bad. But being white, and having people tell me that because I am white, that I can't be a victim of racism, is just as wrong too. I have been a victim of racism, and of sexism. Some times I feel that I am suffering the worst of both because I am a white male.

But then again I didn't grow up living in the deep south of Louisiana and not permitted to drink from the same water fountain as the rest of the people. Now that was just wrong, and I would stand up against that too.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Gust

... nephew of the boss, god daughter of the secretary, right fraternity, member of the lodge, et al...

believe it or not, some white people are not quite up to standard either and some of colour are overqualified.

So much for you having posted your last post on AO, as you claimed to have done earlier.

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Exactly, I have seen lesser qualified, and in fact even unqualified applicants hired, strictly because of their race.

I've seen way more family members, buddies of the boss...son/daughter of the boss mans golfing buddy than anything else. And they are always one of those majorities too.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by brownbomber

In real society I've noticed people becoming conditioned to accusations of racism. It just doesn't shock anymore. I think it's sad that then it marginalizes real actual racism.
On the AO forum if I say had started a thread about racism against natives I would be inundated with replies of get over it, get a job etc. The white thread? Pretty tame. I couldn't see myself starting a poor me thread anyway.
But I guess it's a fair question to ask those concerned about racism against whites, are you as concerned about racism against natives Asians etc? Not saying the subject of discriminated whites which is real and actually quite common isn't important. I think it sucks, I hate it.
What I'm trying to illustrate is something that isn't fair is a lot easier to see and feel when it's against you.

Perhaps the big difference is that when (some) natives complain about racism, they blame all white people for it. Too me, that hurts. I didn't do anything to the natives. In fact I married one once.

However for every case where a non white person complains about racism in Canada, I know I can point out many cases where this is prohibited by law, and in fact is actually the opposite. In my opinion, if a non white person complains about not getting a job, it most likely does not have anything to do with racism, but more to do with them not being the best fit for the company, and this could be due to many things such as education, experience, or attitude.

But when racism is complained about by white people, for the most part they don't say who is guilty of the racism. They don't say it is the natives, or the black, or the Chinese, because it is caused by our own people in government who are trying to fix a perceived problem by making racism the solution.

This is no different than our government claiming all gun owners are guilty of doing illegal things with our guns, just because they are guns.

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by brownbomber

I don't think you understand. We mean when a position is filled because a applicant is a minority and the hiring standard is lower, or college entrance etc etc. I believe in achievement on our own merits. I can feel what you're saying though being older than me and all. I've never had issues getting a job but 30 years ago I would have had issues doing what I do. The past sucks but that water has gone downstream and we aren't getting it back.

I understand, fact is there is no lowering of standards that is just a cop out. Usually the job descriptions were just written in such a way that the minorities were likely not to fit the qualifications criteria. Much like the federal jobs now that all require bilingual people....just prioritizing those jobs for the children of Quebec politicians. Thanks Harper.

[elkhunter11]

I've seen way more family members, buddies of the boss...son/daughter of the boss mans golfing buddy than anything else. And they are always one of those majorities too

Having been involved in the actual hiring of applicants on several occasions, I have been encouraged to give special consideration to lesser qualified individuals, because of their race, in two instances, and to another person because of his spouse's position in the company in one instance, but I hired the most qualified applicant in each case. Not once, have I hired an applicant, that I was encouraged to give special consideration to.

I understand, fact is there is no lowering of standards that is just a cop out. Usually the job descriptions were just written in such a way that the minorities were likely not to fit the qualifications criteria.

Our job prerequisites generally specify that the applicant have a recognized trades ticket, and a given amount of experience, often five years. I was allowed to waive those requirements, only for applicants of a certain race, and it isn't white.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by ali#1

I agree.

I face affirmative action sometimes at work (I work for the city) but there are ways around it. I don't agree with affirmative action but I understand why it's there.

And this is how I feel too. I just don't think anyone benefits by affirmative action today.

The old saying about two wrongs don't make a right. And that is true about affirmative action.

[Burglecut83]

Gust is back!

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Having been involved in the actual hiring of applicants on several occasions, I have been encouraged to give special consideration to lesser qualified individuals, because of their race, in two instances, and to another person because of his spouse's position in the company in one instance, but I hired the most qualified applicant in each case. Not once, have I hired an applicant, that I was encouraged to give special consideration to.



Our job prerequisites generally specify that the applicant have a recognized trades ticket, and a given amount of experience, often five years. I was allowed to waive those requirements, only for applicants of a certain race, and it isn't white.

So obviously having a trades ticket really wasn't a real requirement to be able to do the job....just like I said just beef up the job requirements so they can justify not hiring certain people. My point was just supported.

[Gust]

Originally Posted by Burglecut83

Gust is back!

can't get off here till Monday. which reminds me, one more to ignore.

[elkhunter11]

So obviously having a trades ticket really wasn't a real requirement to be able to do the job....just like I said just beef up the job requirements so they can justify not hiring certain people. My point was just supported.

Actually it was a requirement to do the job, I can't send an apprentice to do live high voltage work. That is why I hired the people with the tickets. Unfortunately HR has no clue what is involved with our work in the field, they care more about being politically correct, and making the numbers work for them. This also supports the fact that standards are lowered, to the point of hiring a person that can't even do the job, because of racism.

[Mistagin]

Originally Posted by ali#1

White is a tone not a colour

Best go back and check that out some more

I guess I should have said 'Caucasian' - if ya wanna be a 'nit-picker .

[Redfrog]

It is unbelievable how some distort and pervert reality to support their POV. Stupid and illegal stuff is still stupid and illegal, regardless of who does it. Morons come in all colors and tones, for those who are colored blind. Confusing the issues by yelling racist, changes nothing.




Any idea why it is so easy to get gov't assistance to hire and relocate people from off shore and yet those same programs aren't available to Canadians?

Of yeah those are jobs Canadians won't do. Yeah right.

Ali are you saying there are so many whites crying racism that they are taking the claims of racism that others were using and now there's not enough nonsense to go around?

[Burglecut83]

Originally Posted by Mistagin

Best go back and check that out some more

I guess I should have said 'Caucasian' - if ya wanna be a 'nit-picker .

Crayons and color penicils come in the "color" white. WHATS WITH THAT??

[Burglecut83]

Originally Posted by Gust

can't get off here till Monday. which reminds me, one more to ignore.

What have I ever done to you Mr Outdoorsman?

[rugatika]

Originally Posted by brownbomber

Agree with you there rugatika I find it patronizing to think my standards should be lower. I don't need anybody to pat me on the head and say you're not quite good enough but....
All people want is a equal shot, in the not so distant past it would have been pretty hard to get into a lot if professions, with what society was. But it's a lot easier to focus on what society now is. Make sense?

Makes perfect sense to me. When I first started in the patch a little over 20 years ago, racism was still overt. I wouldn't say it was prevalent, but there definitely were patches of the province where it wasn't covered up shall we say. (We've all seen the posters in rig shacks, operator shacks etc...and heard the comments)...it was the same for women then. It wasn't something you saw all over the place, but once in a while. I can't recall seeing anything like that or even hearing anyone talk like that in the last 5, maybe even 10 years. I'm sure it's still there in places, but it's not as overt as it was a couple decades ago...and as generations pass, it will become less and less I suspect.

I can understand the idea behind affirmative action programs, and they have a noble goal, but I think it's swinging the pendulum further than it needs to go, and winds up having the opposite desired affect. (and I think it's just morally wrong to treat one person differently than another based on their skin color)

[ali#1]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

It is unbelievable how some distort and pervert reality to support their POV. Stupid and illegal stuff is still stupid and illegal, regardless of who does it. Morons come in all colors and tones, for those who are colored blind. Confusing the issues by yelling racist, changes nothing.




Any idea why it is so easy to get gov't assistance to hire and relocate people from off shore and yet those same programs aren't available to Canadians?

Of yeah those are jobs Canadians won't do. Yeah right.

Ali are you saying there are so many whites crying racism that they are taking the claims of racism that others were using and now there's not enough nonsense to go around?

Not quite following mr frog.

[EZM]

I can't comment on affirmative action, mostly because I haven't given it allot of thought, I hear and understand how it can "cut both ways".

As far as racism, bigotry and prejudice - it makes me sick to see and it makes me sad that my children have witnessed it.

Unfortunately most of us "privileged white middle class heterosexual males", assuming most forum members fit this description, don't know jack $#!t about racism and certainly haven't experienced it with the same frequency and intensity as many of our friends and neighbors of other races or religions have had to endure.

To be honest, I appreciate everyone's opinion on this, but I simply can't feel bad for those of you who feel discriminated against as a white, heterosexual, middle class man living here in North America ...... sorry.

[brslk]

Originally Posted by EZM

I can't comment on affirmative action, mostly because I haven't given it allot of thought, I hear and understand how it can "cut both ways".

As far as racism, bigotry and prejudice - it makes me sick to see and it makes me sad that my children have witnessed it.

Unfortunately most of us "privileged white middle class heterosexual males", assuming most forum members fit this description, don't know jack $#!t about racism and certainly haven't experienced it with the same frequency and intensity as many of our friends and neighbors of other races or religions have had to endure.

To be honest, I appreciate everyone's opinion on this, but I simply can't feel bad for those of you who feel discriminated against as a white, heterosexual, middle class man living here in North America ...... sorry.

I gotta agree. Maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about but I am a 43 year old White male and have never felt discriminated against.
Not even a little bit.

I dunno about the privileged part as I grew up poor.

I work with a pretty diverse group of people.
Mostly Caucasian but a couple of east Indians, one Chinese, two Somalians. an Israeli, A Brazilian and a few others.

I see the most racist things said about the east Indians.

Never against the whites.

Maybe it's just me but being a Caucasian is pretty easy going... all things considered.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by brslk

I gotta agree. Maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about but I am a 43 year old White male and have never felt discriminated against.
Not even a little bit.

I dunno about the privileged part as I grew up poor.

I work with a pretty diverse group of people.
Mostly Caucasian but a couple of east Indians, one Chinese, two Somalians. an Israeli, A Brazilian and a few others.

I see the most racist things said about the east Indians.

Never against the whites.

Maybe it's just me but being a Caucasian is pretty easy going... all things considered.

Depends on the industry and job you are looking at trying to get. Many government jobs have been the worst for affirmative action policies. If you were a white male trying to get into some of these positions, you would not be accepted, regardless of how much experience you have and how little the person who did get the job had. The main hiring point being the race of the person looking for the job. If you were the right minority, you got the job. Ability and education has nothing to do with the process.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Some of you guys need to go someplace to work where YOU are the visible minority and then let us know how it all goes

LC

[elkhunter11]

Unfortunately most of us "privileged white middle class heterosexual males", assuming most forum members fit this description, don't know jack $#!t about racism and certainly haven't experienced it with the same frequency and intensity as many of our friends and neighbors of other races or religions have had to endure.

I work at a location, where we have a great influx of foreign workers, and where there is a great deal of pressure, to hire local aboriginal workers. I oversee aboriginal workers, oriental workers, Inuit workers, African workers, East Indian and Pakistani workers, Lebanese workers, as well as people from all over the world. Some of my best workers are from other parts of the world, just as some of them are from Canada, and it's rare,that any of those people cause any issues. However, at the other end of the scale, the lower end workers, racism most definitely an issue, with some people claiming racism whenever they get in trouble, or when someone tries to discipline them. Whenever people get in trouble, they seem to look for excuses, or for someone else to blame, and they often resort to racism at those times, because they know how sensitive HR departments are, when racism is involved.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Some of you guys need to go someplace to work where YOU are the visible minority and then let us know how it all goes

LC

I have. I have worked some places where the local newspaper adds specified the race of the person they looked to hire. Just like I have seen in our newspaper adds in Canada, and I was also not included in these adds.

I have also been targeted by the local police for bribes because I was white. They considered I was rich because I was white. However the reality was I was away from home working because of life circumstances, and trying to support my family.

This is not what I consider the same kind of discrimination that I find in Canada. Affirmative action is wrong. Canada should be better, but it isn't.

[brownbomber]

I've had white guys call me racist to though. And it's like umm I'm half white my mother is directly from Scotland. And I'm not racist I'm prejudiced, I am very prejudiced against those that don't pull their weight, whine, complain or generally act like a baby.
Rough life when you are expected to show up on time, after payday, not lip off, Etc etc. Yeah I'm a real racist.