fake deer encounter.

[Dominq]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

This defense will not work.

From the Wildlife Act.

"(6) Where

(a) a person has the intent to hunt, and believes or appears to believe that the person is hunting,

(b) what the person is purporting to hunt is actually a representation of a wildlife animal that has been set out by a wildlife officer or wildlife guardian, and

(c) having regard to the time when, the location where and any other relevant circumstances under which the activity takes place, the activity would, if that representation were a real wildlife animal of the kind represented, constitute an act of hunting that would be an offence against a hunting provision of this Act,

then the person is deemed for the purposes of this Act to be hunting such a wildlife animal and is guilty of an offence against that provision."

Thanks for the info. When in doubt, revert to the law.
It appears to me that if an individual has a problem controlling his impulse faced with the temptation of a good size rack and is ready to illegally shoot at the animal... Perhaps that individual doesn't have the maturity to deserve Hunting Privileges.
We can agree or disagree on many things. For example, there are people who think that we should go easy on the white tail does this year because of last year rough winter (I am one of them). Some think that it's OK to fill all of their tags... Some only trophy hunt... We can disagree and we can have an adult conversation about it. I will never ostracize another hunter for having a different viewpoint.
However, when it comes at shooting at an animal “illegally”, fake or alive, you are a poacher under the law. End of the story.
I love the fact that Waterninja’s friend son shot the animal… with his camera. Someone thought him right.

[Rancid Crabtree]

I think this is the best enforcement tactic going because I think shooting from the road and tress passing is about the most widespread poaching happening.
I don't know if they do it in Alberta but I hope they do.
I'd even supply the COs with land to run the sting on.

[Canuk]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

Is that right? Then why do the fake deer/moose and elk all have trophy grade racks?? Perhaps to 'induce a person to commit an offense that the person would normally be unlikely to commit'??

Put a decoy spike buck out there and I'd go along with your take on it, otherwise they are deliberately entrapping people by putting temptation right in front of them.

I dont understand, why would a big rack induce me to commit a crime?

It's not entrapment. That is the legal decision on the issue, despite your opinion.

[Zip]

Originally Posted by Rancid Crabtree

I think this is the best enforcement tactic going because I think shooting from the road and tress passing is about the most widespread poaching happening.
I don't know if they do it in Alberta but I hope they do.
I'd even supply the COs with land to run the sting on.

Yes they do this in Alberta as well...the F&W will set up what they call their surrogate deer in any area that has had a alot of calls come in regarding people shooting at night or on land with no hunting allowed..etc..The F&W usually don't just go out and put their poacher catcher out for no good reason..if it is out there it is because that particular area has been flagged as a possible problem area...The F&W usually only want to catch the bad guys out there,the real hunters are not really the target...unless of course you happen to shoot at one of those fakers!!

[nof60]

Originally Posted by pickrel pat

like throwing an 8 ball of crack on the sidewalk in the slums and hiding behind the dumpster? lol.

Or in TO mayors office??

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Canuk

I dont understand, why would a big rack induce me to commit a crime?

It's not entrapment. That is the legal decision on the issue, despite your opinion.

Strikes me that a really big rack may be somewhat more tempting to a certain type of person, but a secondary benefit is that it woul be harder for an individual with an antlerless tag to claim that they were simply mistaken and throw themselves on the mercy of the judge. I mean, make it REALLY obvious that this is a buck. No room for mistakes or confusion. Just a thought.

[tri777]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

Exactly. Aren't there enough people committing infractions without having to tempt people?? It's just a lazy way to write more tickets.

Lazy!!
I see You've never had the privalige of all the labour that actually
goes into staking out a proper place,setting up fake deer,cold wait for low lifes to come along..perhaps you could shed a proper method of actually catching a poacher Canuck?what is the prefered style?

[tri777]

Originally Posted by Mike_W

I think this is perfect and wish it was done more often!!!
As discussed in another thread of mine to be charged someone needs to be caught red handed by a CO and the two hardest to enforce and most common doing is shooting from the road or vehicle.
Most of the time the CO will have video surveillance. No way to fight that!!

^^ 'Bump'..*Like*!

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

Exactly. Aren't there enough people committing infractions without having to tempt people?? It's just a lazy way to write more tickets.

It's not illegal to bait hunters. It is illegal for hunters to take the bait. If it wasn't the fake bait deer they shoot it will be the next live deer they have the opportunity to nefariously kill. I wish there were more fake deer stings, it might keep these opportunist poachers a little more apprehensive about blasting critters wherever and whenever they have the chance. If these types of wildlife stings bother you there's probably good reason to ask yourself why.

[Mikezilk]

Best one I ever saw was up north. A farmer had a sheet of plywood cut out and painted like a moose. Attached a huge rack to it and within 5 days it was swiss cheese. lol

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Canuk

I dont understand, why would a big rack induce me to commit a crime?

It's not entrapment. That is the legal decision on the issue, despite your opinion.

Could one argue curves and a short skirt made you force yourself on a woman?....I think not....

LC

[canadian medic]

ill tell you the best one I saw was DNR put out two small green reflectors an a black board just down the road from where i use to live for 3 nights it was bang whoop whoop whoop

[KegRiver]

They need to set up one of those along this range road.

I bet they could pay one or more COs salary for a year with the fines they would collect.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by coppercarbide

Wow. Lot of poachers in here, or at least a lot of sympathy for poachers in here.

Actually, reading it... just one... posting a lot of times.

Thats a bit harsh.

All the guy is saying is that its kind of a scuzzy way of doing business and he's right.
Sure...its effective and maybe thats the best way to catch poachers but it still sort of stinks.

Sort of like getting a speeding ticket when the cop car is blocking view of the speed sign.
Aside from that its a result of Liberal thinking... at one time for something to be considered criminal... harm had to be done.

Now we are convicting guys based upon the assumption of what they would have done had the circumstance been different and not upon what they actually did which was shoot a fake deer.
Its a small thing but it is also a dangerous precedent which could grow and spread to other things.

We already have some fish cops that would like to assume poaching if they stop you with uncased weapons after dark.

Personnally I don't really care but I do worry because often something that seems like a good idea at the onset ends up becoming a bit of a nightmare down the road as people challenge the limits and gradually nibble away at things to cast a wider net.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by Mikezilk

Best one I ever saw was up north. A farmer had a sheet of plywood cut out and painted like a moose. Attached a huge rack to it and within 5 days it was swiss cheese. lol

My uncle did that in BC years ago... he had to replace the plywood before deer season even opened.

[pickrel pat]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy Badger

Thats a bit harsh.

All the guy is saying is that its kind of a scuzzy way of doing business and he's right.
Sure...its effective and maybe thats the best way to catch poachers but it still sort of stinks.

Sort of like getting a speeding ticket when the cop car is blocking view of the speed sign.
Aside from that its a result of Liberal thinking... at one time for something to be considered criminal... harm had to be done.

Now we are convicting guys based upon the assumption of what they would have done had the circumstance been different and not upon what they actually did which was shoot a fake deer.
Its a small thing but it is also a dangerous precedent which could grow and spread to other things.

We already have some fish cops that would like to assume poaching if they stop you with uncased weapons after dark.

Personnally I don't really care but I do worry because often something that seems like a good idea at the onset ends up becoming a bit of a nightmare down the road as people challenge the limits and gradually nibble away at things to cast a wider net.

Thats looking at it from a different perspective. Very good post.

[rwm1273]

So what ever happened to ensuring your target is what you think it is, and is what is legal for when and where you are?

I have no sympathy for those who shoot decoys on the wrong side of the law.

[wally338]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy Badger

Thats a bit harsh.

All the guy is saying is that its kind of a scuzzy way of doing business and he's right.
Sure...its effective and maybe thats the best way to catch poachers but it still sort of stinks.

Sort of like getting a speeding ticket when the cop car is blocking view of the speed sign.
Aside from that its a result of Liberal thinking... at one time for something to be considered criminal... harm had to be done.

Now we are convicting guys based upon the assumption of what they would have done had the circumstance been different and not upon what they actually did which was shoot a fake deer.
Its a small thing but it is also a dangerous precedent which could grow and spread to other things.

We already have some fish cops that would like to assume poaching if they stop you with uncased weapons after dark.

Personnally I don't really care but I do worry because often something that seems like a good idea at the onset ends up becoming a bit of a nightmare down the road as people challenge the limits and gradually nibble away at things to cast a wider net.

^ I agree 100% ^

[coppercarbide]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy Badger

Thats a bit harsh.


Now we are convicting guys based upon the assumption of what they would have done had the circumstance been different and not upon what they actually did which was shoot a fake deer.

So you're saying that the poacher THOUGHT he had shot a real deer, but he had actually shot a fake deer. So we shouldn't prosecute him for shooting a real deer, even though he thought it was real and was poaching.

No matter what you think of the CO's methods, a poacher is a poacher is a poacher. There's no grey area here.

Man am I glad I came in here to get my daily lesson on sportsmanship and hunting ethics from people like you. Just a bloody shining beacon of conservation and justice you are.

[CaberTosser]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Could one argue curves and a short skirt made you force yourself on a woman?....I think not....

LC

I was going to post the same analogy, but with the obvious reference to the size of a rack determining whether the offender offends...... Somehow one make it right and another makes it wrong from the offenders perspective?

[Sledhead71]

If it works, rock the decoy and let the pond scum surface....

We scream for enforcement to preserve our passion, this technique will identify those who are less passionate and more eager to bend the law to achieve their trophies.

[norwestalta]

May be a derail but if it's a needy family does it make it right? I can understand if a family doesn't have much to sneak one but I don't condone shooting a big buck. Kind of like stealing a chocolate bar versus a loaf of bread. It's still a theft but different in my mind.

[Huntnut]

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

If it works, rock the decoy and let the pond scum surface....

We scream for enforcement to preserve our passion, this technique will identify those who are less passionate and more eager to bend the law to achieve their trophies.

That's right. We bitch and moan about lack of enforcement then bitch and moan about how it is done. Can't always have your cake and eat it too.

[mxz1997]

Originally Posted by norwestalta

May be a derail but if it's a needy family does it make it right? I can understand if a family doesn't have much to sneak one but I don't condone shooting a big buck. Kind of like stealing a chocolate bar versus a loaf of bread. It's still a theft but different in my mind.

Do you think there are any needy families out there poaching deer?
A needy family would be hunting for meat. Taking a big ole doe the legal way is about the easiest thing in the world. No need to be poaching.

[32-40win]

Rangers used to run a muley in a no shooting zone around their station on the way to the Mountainaire Lodge. The zone was (is?) very clearly marked with very large signs. They got a few people every year with it. There were some fairly big mulies hanging in that area.
It is no different than their hanging out at Ya-Ha ranch house and listening for shots before & after legal light. I remember a couple of people getting nailed on that. They'd just ride out and visit them, while they were cleaning it.

[Skywalker]

There is also that issue of the "usual suspects". You know, the guys that are out poaching every year. Using more than one vehicle. Lawyer on speed dial. Some of these yahoos are so smart that it's very hard to catch them. These decoys are a valuable tool for those "hard to catch" poachers.

[Fishy]

Originally Posted by JRsMav

give me a break. Theres temptation everywhere in society on daily basis. If you get duped into shooting an illegal deer regardless as to whether it was extremely tempting and so forth you deserve a flaming and charges. Not our faults if your a simple minded pylon that cant control his/her urges.

x2

[KegRiver]

To deal with pond scum, use a pond skimmer.
Decoy, pond skimmer, same thing.

Give every CO his own decoy and pay him overtime rates when he uses it.

Then hire two more COs for every one there is now, and give them the same deal.
Maybe then they could finally get the poaching under control.

And then there would be no need for draws, short seasons or long road trips to find something to hunt.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

If it works, rock the decoy and let the pond scum surface....

We scream for enforcement to preserve our passion, this technique will identify those who are less passionate and more eager to bend the law to achieve their trophies.

Agree 100%, anyone who shoots that deer is not a hunter. They don't set it up in public areas during legal hunting times anyhow.

LC

[Spartikus]

My 2 cents.. There is the right way to hunt (legal and the wrong way (illegal). Not a lot of grey area..

You shoot out of season (30 mins after dark on last day is out of season... period) you are a poacher and you are subject to penalties..

Get these idiots out of the hunting pool. Make the hunting areas more safe and more ethical for people who respect their part in preserving our rights to harvest.

Dissappointing to see people try and justify or sympathise for some guy who would illegally discharged a firearm (shooting out of season game is illegal discharge as well as poaching) and bring a bad name to hunters.

Sad.