Oddball

[Redspy]

6 one way, half a dozen the other....if the back tine had no spilts every one would be saying rack looks white tail, with the splits its a muley rack. Only way to ever know is a genetic break down. Till then it is up to everyones preception.

Me it could go either way. =)

Originally Posted by Redspy

6 one way, half a dozen the other....if the back tine had no spilts every one would be saying rack looks white tail, with the splits its a muley rack. Only way to ever know is a genetic break down. Till then it is up to everyones preception.

Me it could go either way. =)

The cape was the give away for me....I rarely look at antlers first. No matter what the antlers looked like, I'd say mule deer.

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

The cape was the give away for me....I rarely look at antlers first. No matter what the antlers looked like, I'd say mule deer.

between the color of the facial hair, and the floppy ears its crystal clear i think. the antlers are all mule to me too. ill go out on a limb here and wager his tail was about 6 inches long with a black tip too.....

again, even if i try real hard i just cant see anything whitetail about it?

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

between the color of the facial hair, and the floppy ears its crystal clear i think. the antlers are all mule to me too. ill go out on a limb here and wager his tail was about 6 inches long with a black tip too.....

again, even if i try real hard i just cant see anything whitetail about it?

I can see a bit of whitetail appearance in the antlers but it a poor indicator of anything other than the antlers are a bit odd for a mule deer.

[walking buffalo]

Fom an extensive study on Hybrids.

Hybrids have been reported fiom captive facilities as early as 1898 when a whitetail x mule deer cross was produced at the Cincinnati Zoo. Occurrences were later reported fiom the zoo in Minot, North Dakota, deer pens in Alberta, and at other locations. The male hybrids are usually sterile, as is the case in mammals; however, female hybrids are fertile when bred back to 1 of the parent species. Whitetail X mule deer hybrids have also been reported in the wild fiom Alberta, British Columbia, Saskatchewan, Nebraska, Kansas, Colorado, Washington, West Texas, New Mexico, and Arizona. This hybridization between the 2 different deer species is extremely rare in most areas, but does occur in where ranges overlap.


Hybrid deer show characteristics that are intermediate between mule deer and whitetails.


Body size is usually indicative of mule deer, but the tail is more often very dark on the dorsal side and white underneath.

Ears are larger than a whitetail, but smaller than a mule deer.

The preorbital gland in fiont of the eye is also intermediate between the deep pits found in mule deer and the shallow depression of whitetails.

Most hybrids have whitetail-like antlers, but it is impossible to diagnose a hybrid by antlers alone. Too much variation exists in antlers for them to serve as a reliable indicator of hybridization.

The best feature to determine if a deer is a hybrid is the size of the metatarsal gland on the outside of the lower portion of the rear legs. Unfortunately, this characteristic is nearly impossible to evaluate in the field fiom a distance.

A whitetail X mule deer hybrid has metatarsal glands that are intermediate between the long, brown mule deer glands (over 3 inches) and the small white glands of a whitetail (less than 1 inch). Hybrid metatarsals usually measure between 2-3 inches and may or may not be encircled with white hair.

The buck in question looks 100% like a Mule deer to me.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by Redspy

6 one way, half a dozen the other....if the back tine had no spilts every one would be saying rack looks white tail, with the splits its a muley rack. Only way to ever know is a genetic break down. Till then it is up to everyones preception.

Me it could go either way. =)

If the back tines had no splits, hate to say it to you but guys would still say it's a muley.

Have you never seen a 3x3 muley with brow tines, that would really screw you up. Antler configuration has Nothing to do with species identifier for me.

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by pickrel pat

mules have brow tines too. those are small. just like mule tines......

It was sarcasm!!!

[curtisb]

I think it was that outdoor store in drayton - dudleys. There's a whitetail/muley on the wall in there with huge mulie horns, or the other way around (quite a while ago i was there... can't remember) Either the taxi was drunk, or that deer was a hybid. My old man actually pulled me over and said "look at this thing." Someone on this board must have seen this mount i am speaking of???

[crawfy]

I had seen old odd ball around this summer and a bit this fall. During the rut I did not see him with the ladies too much but I seen him today hanging around with his girls again.He has put on a little more mass and he finally grew a fifth point on one side.

I actually had him during the bow season at 40 yards and seen that he had finally grew a fifth point on the one side and said to myself lets see what next year brings.

[bdub]

Nice pics. Thanks for posting. This year I shot a mule deer buck that was breeding a whitetail doe and was running off three other whitetail bucks chasing her as well. I always thought it was the other way around but I guess not always.

[whitetail Junkie]

Lookin good! U better take him next fall! He is nice!

[Kick1]

That's pretty cool Crawfy that you got a shot(pun) at him 3 years in a row.
Do you every see any whities does around him or are they always the mulies.

[goldscud]

Whitetail bucks breed mule does along the Bow River below Calgary. We've seen "mule deer looking bucks" with whitetail antlers and weird fur colors (combination of fur types). Pretty sure there are some hybrids out there.

[KCL]

These two mulies both have left antlers with some whitetail characteristics. The one being held up is the biggest deer I was ever a part of. The other one is Harley, I love the drops and webbing in the antlers on this deer.

Derek MD.jpg

HarleyMD.jpg

[duffy4]

Apologies for being caught up in the tangent.

I think we can agree that unusual antler configuration is NOT proof of a hybrid.

However that doesn't mean that you can look at a set of antlers and say NO thats not a hybrid its just an odd mule deer rack.

[crawfy]

looks like he may be regressing this year, but is still the dominate buck as he has been chasing off all the mulie bucks. still have not been able to catch him in the act though.

[HunterDave]

I was just thinking that I had seen the pictures in the op before and then I saw the date of the post....lol!

It's funny that he's still hanging around with them after all this time. Maybe he got lucky the year that you first saw him....lol.

[kstats]

Darwin at work... Those genes won't go anywhere unless he crosses the fence and finds a girlfriend of his own raising!!

[outdoors forever]

Ahhhh shoulda popped him last fall!

That is really awesome that you have seen this guy so many years in a row. Thanks so much for taking the time to share!

[pickrel pat]

Originally Posted by kstats

Darwin at work... Those genes won't go anywhere unless he crosses the fence and finds a girlfriend of his own raising!!

the offspring are infertile? or mule and whiteys cant have offspring?

[bluetick]

Does someone here have the link or the study that confirms that Hybrid mule /whitetail do not survive .
They do breed though because of the difference in gate and some genetic make up they are prone to an early demise.
Actually legends have been told that white tail will breed out the mule deer in a given area by just doing that exact thing
Cant beat em ? join em! and love em to death

[The Fisherman Guy]

Definitely a cool thread Crawfy!

Looks like you're the only one taking pictures of him, I bet he isn't aware of his internet fame!

Hope you are having a great season so far.

[kstats]

Originally Posted by pickrel pat

the offspring are infertile? or mule and whiteys cant have offspring?

Hybrids are almost 100% of the time infertile... Hence the mule. Hybrids happen, but there is enough genetic difference between the different species that the offspring of the forbidden relationships don't carry on the bloodlines.

[kstats]

Originally Posted by bluetick

Does someone here have the link or the study that confirms that Hybrid mule /whitetail do not survive .
They do breed though because of the difference in gate and some genetic make up they are prone to an early demise.
Actually legends have been told that white tail will breed out the mule deer in a given area by just doing that exact thing
Cant beat em ? join em! and love em to death

Google "hybrid infertility" - Miles of deep (Read "sleep-inducing") reading around the topic and the general theory that hybrids are not often a genetic advantage. Too many chromosomal differences to provide viable sex cells in the hybrids, etc... Not that the hybrid doesn't survive, just can't produce any further offspring, so eventually the "cross-over" dies out...

[wags]

Originally Posted by sanjuanworm

Anyone else see the 2 headed deer? That's the real oddball.

X2 - that's the only thing I saw lol

[Springerman]

Originally Posted by crawfy

The odd ball is back and is trying to breed the mulie does. I watched him tonight chase the does, lip curl and even go over and smell the does urine. it was wild to watch got a little video of it too.

Back in the eighties I shot what I thought was a nice Whiretail Buck, When I approached it all I could see was a Mule deer rump sticking up. I couldn`t believe that I had mistaken a Muley for a Whietail. Sure enough it had a perfect Whitetail 4 point rack.
I talked to F & W at the time and they said that there certainly some hybreds out their. The biologist said that Whitetail bucks will breed muley does but not vice - versa

[crawfy]

Took these today as I seen a little bigger mule buck hanging around but he still is the one with the ladies. looks like he is bleeding over his right antler and on his left shoulder. The last picture is of the mule buck I seen him battling with and chasing off away from the does. wish I could have caught the fight on video.I was just looking at some other pictures from early this morning and he did not have those wounds so they must have just happened between noon and as of this post.

[J.B.]

That mulie looks like a young buck...keep an eye on him for the nxt year or two if you can!

[Gbuss]

The person that i have permission to hunt on his property has 3 hybrids mounted in his basement. So I do believe that the whites and mulies cross

Gordon