First Nation Seeks Redress for Forced Relocation

[JCP]

Why not. I grew up in a small town in B.C making " pocket change". I didn't like that. So I moved to where work was, searched for work and found work in Alberta. Was it hard? yes!, but I didn't stay in that small town making pocket change waiting on someone to magically give me money. That is how the world works. If you want something you have to WORK for it...well atleast most of us do.

[Mackinaw]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

Can you imagine if the Canadian government did this to a community today?? In some cases, it would probably be a good idea to have the community settled closer to modern amenities. Schools, hospitals....and jobs.

If we look at the bleak situations in many of these remote communities it's no wonder the youth are prone to drug abuse and suicide [an idle mind is the devils workshop]. It's sad really.

This happen 50 years ago if after that time there is a drug abuse and a suicide issue it is possibly the fault of the people not the situation. A lot can be done in 50 years even with no help if you get off your butt and not expect the world owes you. Perhaps they need to apologize to their children for the legacy they have left them.

Mack

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by New Hunter Okotoks

The best thing that could happen for the aboriginals in Canada would be to dissolve Indian Affairs and end the handouts once and for all. It's not like things are getting any better with the course we are on now. If First Nations people truly want to become proud of their Heritage and who they are, then they have to be responsible for themselves. The people who actually endured the hardships and the abuses are becoming few and far between yet the demands for apologies and the demands for money are stronger than ever.

Seriously, when does it end? My father sold his used car back in 1972 for $600 because it needed repairs and he wanted the money for something else. The fact that it was a '67 Camaro RS/SS means absolutely nothing. It does not entitle me to go back to the purchaser and demand $250,000 because I saw one sell for that much on a televised auction. People are grasping at any angle they can to get more and more money. Oh, my grandparents were moved from their homes 100 years ago, give ME some money. Oh, my uncle was raped in a boarding school in 1950, give ME some money. Oh, my parents abandoned me when I was a kid, give me some money. Do people really get to claim inheritance to hardship in this country? It's getting to the point of pimping deceased descendants for all the hardship they possibly can. It's like hitting the jackpot to find out that something bad happened to dead relatives.

There are many people that are natives by choice and by convenience. I know of several who didn't even know that they had aboriginal backgrounds. They never lived like aboriginals and sure don't look like aboriginals. They did all the digging into the past that they could; not because they wanted to find out about heritage but because they wanted to find out if they were close enough to qualify for the benefits. Guess what? JACKPOT!!! Now they are subsistence hunters!! Yep, hunting and fishing all year round. Now they are looking into trying to get money back for money spent on education and money spent on anything else they can think of. They are not looking into the heritage and traditions of their "People"......... or are they? It seems as though looking for free handouts IS the heritage that they are becoming known for. People who once told native jokes and put on native accents for laughs are now trying to find out ways to exploit their 1/16 "Native Pride" as best they can.

When does it end? When is enough, enough?

When people like you quit calling treaty benefits...handouts? Maybe things will change a little, for most likely this is what your teaching your children so they can carry on and pass this misinformation to their kids.

BUT that isn't what this thread is about, it's about seeing what people think ,and feel, about an entire community being uprooted and moved in our country. Do we think what happened was wrong, and should amends be made? Or should we just tell them to suck it up and move if they don't like it? Because we all know that if they abandon the reserve....they lose status and access to programs and services that are only available to them if they stay there......

[sjr]

Originally Posted by norwestalta

So financial compensation will erase the hurt feelings and make things better?

Just a little Monday AM humor enjoy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA1bc67_Zec

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by chico7mm

Why not. I grew up in a small town in B.C making " pocket change". I didn't like that. So I moved to where work was, searched for work and found work in Alberta. Was it hard? yes!, but I didn't stay in that small town making pocket change waiting on someone to magically give me money. That is how the world works. If you want something you have to WORK for it...well atleast most of us do.

It must have been hard for you to move like that. Did you have a car, or did you just thumb rides or get a bus ticket? It would be interesting to hear of the challenges you had to overcome.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

When people like you quit calling treaty benefits...handouts? Maybe things will change a little, for most likely this is what your teaching your children so they can carry on and pass this misinformation to their kids.

But aboriginals get benefits not specifically mentioned in treaties. Perhaps that should end. Interpret the treaties literally and specifically.

[Purple Farmer]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

It is the only first nation or Inuit community that was forcibly relocated by the government that is still awaiting an apology.

n 1956 the governments of Canada and Manitoba conspired to relocate the Sayisi Dene from their traditional land near Duck Lake in Manitoba's far north to the shores of Hudson Bay on the outskirts of Churchill. The governments excused the move citing fears the Sayisi Dene people were over hunting caribou and hurting the caribou populations.


No Purple Farmer, I am unaware of the things you are alluding to, perhaps if your right in your accusations you could point me to sources of information that would confirm what your saying??

HAHAHAHA, so when Hudson Bay trading co shut the depot down and the Sayisi Dene asked the HBTC where they could continue the relationship or are you saying that did not happen and that the HBTC did not ask the government to coordinate the relocation?
No accusations (you may want to look up the definition) just the truth, but, go ahead and keep cutting and pasting rhetoric and untruths.

Remind me, was it 2008 or 9 when they were given 10,000 acres plus in addition to their treaty rights by the Manitoba government. What did Chief Bussidor say then.

What happened to some First nations was wrong, no doubt, this is not one of those events and neither is the water in band 40.

Oh and How did chief redsky spend the cash cs?

And finally CS what are you contributing to these people other than nonsense.

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

But aboriginals get benefits not specifically mentioned in treaties. Perhaps that should end. Interpret the treaties literally and specifically.

Plenty of Canadians get benefits that are not gleaned from a treaty, perhaps that should end? The last time I checked none of us voting stiffs have much say in all these benefits being made available to special interest groups so why focus on just one group?

[New Hunter Okotoks]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

When people like you quit calling treaty benefits...handouts? Maybe things will change a little, for most likely this is what your teaching your children so they can carry on and pass this misinformation to their kids.

BUT that isn't what this thread is about, it's about seeing what people think ,and feel, about an entire community being uprooted and moved in our country. Do we think what happened was wrong, and should amends be made? Or should we just tell them to suck it up and move if they don't like it? Because we all know that if they abandon the reserve....they lose status and access to programs and services that are only available to them if they stay there......

Oh, ok. It's MY fault! Lol!!! That's rich. It's because people like me don't use the political correct term for money that is taken without being earned. I guess welfare bums can blame me for their uselessness because I don't call welfare a government subsidy. It's always easier to blame somebody else than to look in the mirror and accept responsibility.

Guess what, they SHOULD suck it up and move if they don't like it. That's what other people do when the place they are in does not offer enough of what is required to make a living. That's why many people moved from east to west in search of employment. They didn't sit in a ghost town village because they might lose their handouts.....ooops sorry CS... their "programs and services".

Do you think that people should NOT be responsible for themselves? That IS what this thread is about btw. As far as I'm concerned, digging up something from 50 years ago and looking for "amends" IS the exact same as looking for a free handout.

BTW, I am teaching my children to be self sufficient and to work hard in school so that they can have a good career. They already know that in order to have a good life, they must work in a good career that provides enough money to do so. I am not teaching my children to dig up crap from the past in order to get a free handout. I am not teaching my children to blame other people for their shortcomings. They are being taught that if they make a mistake, they own it. They don't blame mistakes on others. They also EARN priviledges, they don't just get everything they want regardless. That's how I bring my children up and I am god damned proud of it too. Shortly I am going to teach my children tolerance of others. Because that is also a life lesson that many people have to teach their children in this country.

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by Purple Farmer

HAHAHAHA, so when Hudson Bay trading co shut the depot down and the Sayisi Dene asked the HBTC where they could continue the relationship or are you saying that did not happen and that the HBTC did not ask the government to coordinate the relocation?
No accusations (you may want to look up the definition) just the truth, but, go ahead and keep cutting and pasting rhetoric and untruths.

Remind me, was it 2008 or 9 when they were given 10,000 acres plus in addition to their treaty rights by the Manitoba government. What did Chief Bussidor say then.

What happened to some First nations was wrong, no doubt, this is not one of those events and neither is the water in band 40.

Oh and How did chief redsky spend the cash cs?

And finally CS what are you contributing to these people other than nonsense.

I never heard about the 10,000 acres before...this is what I found the Chief said:

http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublicati...126&Language=E

Chief Ila Bussidor (Sayisi Dene Nation): Merci.

I come before you today to present one issue that affects the Dene Nation in northern Manitoba and continues to be ignored by the federal government: the creation of Nunavut, which involves a deliberate exclusion of Dene input and the deliberate theft of our traditional territory.

The urgency is that the Nunavut settlement area will come into being on April 1, 1999. Time is of the essence, and the timing of our trip is crucial to our efforts to seek resolution on these outstanding issues, which have lingered far too long.

In 1910, we, the Sayisi Dene First Nations, signed an adhesion to Treaty No. 5 with Canada, which states that we have the right to our traditional lands. We signed this in good faith, believing that these things which were promised would hold true for as long as the sun shines, the grass grows and the river flows. However, we find that Canada has given away our traditional lands north of 60° without addressing our rights to our lands.

The Nunavut agreement, an agreement which was created by Canada and the Inuit of the Northwest Territories, will strip us of our sovereign rights to our traditional lands.

We are now at the eleventh hour. In a few short months our ancestral lands will once more be turned over to strangers. It is critical that this committee deal with this issue immediately. We have raised this issue with the last four federal ministers of Indian affairs and other political representatives, and we are enraged and disgusted by the manner in which this has been received.

If we as first nation leaders are to have any credibility and are sincere in our quest for self-government, then we as a national people must demand a full investigation of the exclusion of our treaty rights in that creation of Nunavut.

We are the victims of a welfare state. We have no financial resources beyond the bare minimum that is granted to us to govern our small reserve. Yet we have been using band funds to chase this exclusive quest to seek justice.

We were once a proud and independent people who chose to remain far out on the northern tundra and close to the caribou. The caribou was all we needed to exist on for thousands of years.

For over six generations we have been slowly dragged into this world of dependency on another race of people. The fur trade and the treaties were instrumental in destroying what we all once were.

We have become too dependent on the government. Some days there are people who suggest that we throw that document back at them and say that we want our lands back, all the 100,000 square miles of it, including the 50,000 you gave to our Inuit neighbours.

We have suffered enough as a result of what the government has done to us. We did well for ourselves for thousands of years. Look at us now after 80 years under their treaties.

It is our understanding that since around 1976 the federal government has been assisting in the plan to create a new territory for the Inuit people. We have been requesting recognition since 1976, and have made it clear where our territorial boundaries are.

The insult and reality of it all is that we were ignored, and we're still ignored today. We have repeatedly asked the federal government to note and take action concerning our plight. Yet to date we continue to wait. We are growing impatient as we stand hopelessly while our treaty rights have been disregarded.

We should all be proud of our relations to the north who have managed to secure a future for themselves, but why at our expense? We've given up too much already. Our caribou calving grounds are north of 60° and that is where our paths and our future is.

Every lake from Yathyed Lake to Tadoule Lake to North Knife Lake holds pieces of our history. When the maps and place names of Canada change forever on April 1, 1999, a huge part of our heritage and history will be lost.

Denendeh, once a vast land, has been reduced to a few acres where my people dwell in poverty and despair. My people desperately need help, and we need to heal. For this to happen we need the Nunavut issue to be effectively dealt with. If we cannot address the issues in our backyards, then we cannot hope to set examples for other first nation people around the world.

Therefore, I urge you to support the Dene people in northern Manitoba. We as a government body have an obligation to demand that the federal government be held accountable for this unjust act upon us.

Our national leaders are in essence the only leaders in this nation who can persuade the Government of Canada to act on our behalf, as they promised us so many years ago, and make them take note that the lands they are so generously giving to the Inuit people are lands that are part of our inherent rights as first nation people.

We want to pass on to our children a legacy that includes our ancestral lands, lands that contain the echoes of our father voices. Please take this seriously, and take immediate action.

The Chair: Thank you. Thank you Chief.

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by New Hunter Okotoks

Oh, ok. It's MY fault! Lol!!! That's rich. It's because people like me don't use the political correct term for money that is taken without being earned. I guess welfare bums can blame me for their uselessness because I don't call welfare a government subsidy. It's always easier to blame somebody else than to look in the mirror and accept responsibility.

Guess what, they SHOULD suck it up and move if they don't like it. That's what other people do when the place they are in does not offer enough of what is required to make a living. That's why many people moved from east to west in search of employment. They didn't sit in a ghost town village because they might lose their handouts.....ooops sorry CS... their "programs and services".

Do you think that people should NOT be responsible for themselves? That IS what this thread is about btw. As far as I'm concerned, digging up something from 50 years ago and looking for "amends" IS the exact same as looking for a free handout.

BTW, I am teaching my children to be self sufficient and to work hard in school so that they can have a good career. They already know that in order to have a good life, they must work in a good career that provides enough money to do so. I am not teaching my children to dig up crap from the past in order to get a free handout. I am not teaching my children to blame other people for their shortcomings. They are being taught that if they make a mistake, they own it. They don't blame mistakes on others. They also EARN priviledges, they don't just get everything they want regardless. That's how I bring my children up and I am god damned proud of it too. Shortly I am going to teach my children tolerance of others. Because that is also a life lesson that many people have to teach their children in this country.

Just calling a spade, a spade. You talk about taking money that isn't earned...but the only money you focus on is going to aboriginal canadians. Do you feel so strongly about maternity leave and subsidized post secondary education? Or is the issue more to with race...than programs and services.

I am sure when your children hear you talk like this [or read what you write on forums] they are really learning tolerance for aboriginals and their issues in this country.

[Purple Farmer]

CS,

just a teaser for you...

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/bre...-99864179.html

There's more you just have to look for the truth,

How did Chief redsky spend the cash cs?

What are you contributing cs other than nonsense?

[Purple Farmer]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

I am sure when your children hear you talk like this [or read what you write on forums] they are really learning tolerance for aboriginals and their issues in this country.

What are your children learning from you cs, how to perpetuate a stereotype and turn moderate thinking people against you, if the hats fits cs...

[norwestalta]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

Just calling a spade, a spade. You talk about t. aking money that isnpeopl earned...but the only money you focus on is going to aboriginal canadians. Do you feel so strongly about maternity leave and subsidized post secondary education? Or is the issue more to with race...than programs and services.

I am sure when your children hear you talk like this [or read what you write on forums] they are really learning tolerance for aboriginals and their issues in this country.

I don't think its intolerance of aboriginal people its deadbeats in general. What values are your people learning from you?

[New Hunter Okotoks]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

Just calling a spade, a spade. You talk about taking money that isn't earned...but the only money you focus on is going to aboriginal canadians. Do you feel so strongly about maternity leave and subsidized post secondary education? Or is the issue more to with race...than programs and services.

I am sure when your children hear you talk like this [or read what you write on forums] they are really learning tolerance for aboriginals and their issues in this country.

Maternity leave ends when the child is 1 year old. Post secondary education that is subsidized produces a far more productive citizen. Yes, I do feel strongly about these programs because I feel that they offer very good value for the money.

Do you have a problem with how I raise my children CS? I am sure that when your children read what you post on forums they will feel some sort of birthright to free money that my kids can work hard to provide for them. Just calling a spade a spade.

[rem338win]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

Really chico7mm, it's not that easy you know, and not just for natives. A person cannot just pack up and move, homeless and penniless into the great unknown.

Lots of people grew from this adversity.

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by norwestalta

I don't think its intolerance of aboriginal people its deadbeats in general. What values are your people learning from you?

To not be afraid to speak out when faced with comments like this one>>>>>>

Quoted: ""A boat load of crack, whiskey and shotguns and shells dropped off in the ditch and all the problems would sort themselves out.""

To not be ashamed of my ancestry, because some racist bigots think it's appropriate to take every opportunity to attack the self esteem Aboriginals have because they don't live like the bigots say we all do. For a few.

[sns2]

Sucks that it happened, but please elaborate on how a cheque from taxpayers who had nothing to do with what happened, will right the wrong, and more importantly create lasting change.

I don't agree with any of what happened to First Nations peoples, but I didn't do any of it.

Finally, I don't mean to come across as harsh, but look around the world. Lot's of bad stuff is happening. Lot's of people are arriving in our country from refugee camps. Many of them are adapting to far greater change.

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by sns2

Sucks that it happened, but please elaborate on how a cheque from taxpayers who had nothing to do with what happened, will right the wrong, and more importantly create lasting change.

I don't agree with any of what happened to First Nations peoples, but I didn't do any of it.

Finally, I don't mean to come across as harsh, but look around the world. Lot's of bad stuff is happening. Lot's of people are arriving in our country from refugee camps. Many of them are adapting to far greater change.

I don't really know how it will right the wrong, other than that is the legal system in our country. IF someone does you wrong, you can take them to court and seek 'damages' or reach an out of court 'settlement' without taking it to court.

Same as you, I had nothing to do with what happened. And I don't think I should have to pay for it, I didn't vote for it. So I watch what is happening and I understand that someone thinks they were done wrong...and someone [being the govt] might end up giving a settlement of some kind, willingly or via court order. It really has nothing to do with me other than knowing the government gets the money for the settlement from all of us that pay taxes into they system one way or another.

[Kurt505]

If people are taught to beg for money all their lives, they become beggars, not able to ever be self sufficient.

Where does the true problem lay today? Is it what the Canadian government did 50yrs ago, or is it what has been taught to the people ever since?

It's a fact that with good teachers and mentorship an individual will succeed. If taught to rely on others for ones survival, and the others don't step up to the plate, ultimately who is to blame?


I'll give you a hint CS, it's the teachers!

[expmler]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

Really chico7mm, it's not that easy you know, and not just for natives. A person cannot just pack up and move, homeless and penniless into the great unknown.

That's exactly what the pioneers did, but they came from different countries with a different attitude of self sufficiency.

[expmler]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

Plenty of Canadians get benefits that are not gleaned from a treaty, perhaps that should end? The last time I checked none of us voting stiffs have much say in all these benefits being made available to special interest groups so why focus on just one group?

Because it is that one group that blames us for their shortcomings.

[Pekan]

I cant believe I followed this post to the end!
CS I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you are probably the kind of person who admires certain aspects of native culture, traditions, their proud history, etc. However, I would expect that you have not spent much time on any fn reserves, or know many natve people personally.
In my opinion, your kind of bleeding heart cry for the indian talk, treating modern natives like an artifact needing preservation, is just a nother type of racism.

The fact of the matter is this. Welfare breeds welfare. Its that simple.
I grew up in hamilton ontario in the 80's, I saw plenty of examples of this, of all races.

Feeling sorry for people doesnt improve their lot in life.
Tough love. Ever hear of it? A big dose of tough love is whats needed!

Or youre just the kind of guy who likes to **** people off in forums!

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

If people are taught to beg for money all their lives, they become beggars, not able to ever be self sufficient.

Where does the true problem lay today? Is it what the Canadian government did 50yrs ago, or is it what has been taught to the people ever since?

It's a fact that with good teachers and mentorship an individual will succeed. If taught to rely on others for ones survival, and the others don't step up to the plate, ultimately who is to blame?


I'll give you a hint CS, it's the teachers!

Really Kurt, you lay blame on the teachers? Each and every one of us can choose our own path, we can live off the system or get to work and pay into it.

You ask where lies the true problem today...I'd say probably in Canada's governance structure that has legal acknowledgement of nations within the nation, and the inherent inequality that goes with that.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

Really Kurt, you lay blame on the teachers? Each and every one of us can choose our own path, we can live off the system or get to work and pay into it.

You ask where lies the true problem today...I'd say probably in Canada's governance structure that has legal acknowledgement of nations within the nation, and the inherent inequality that goes with that.

For some there is just no hope.

Keep up the good work, you make one heck of a role model!