Disrespecting Canadian Citizens.

[Mb-MBR]

At one time I was surprised at responses like this whenever a new post was opened up on Aboriginal issues but not anymore......

Carry on.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

Clearly some people have no social conscience at all, and fail to understand that Canada has a fiduciary duty to look after Aboriginals.

Here is the problem. See, most Canadians realize that it is their own duty to ensure their own well being. If something in my house is broken, and I don't fix it, 17yrs later it will still be broken. It's a fact of life for most Canadians, and something most Canadians wouldn't have the audacity to complain about, but instead rather not mention out of embarrassment for leaving it sit broken for 17yrs and not have the ambition to fix it.


PS, If you expect other Canadians to look after you, and your not happy with the service you're being provided, switch your service provider.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by claystone

Seems to me they already had good drinking water but were relocated with the promise of the same in their new location. Its that promise that they want honoured.

This should have been the theme of this thread, I'm sure it would have been a totally different response to the issue. It shines a whole new light on the situation.

It reminds me of the cpp, only on a much smaller scale.

[From The Hip]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

Sometimes it's impossible to help someone who won't help themselves. As they say, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. No shortage of money going to Aboriginals, it just seems to vanish into thin air.

Grizz

I see of course there is no media investigation into the finances of the band's chief or councilors.Much the same as Atiwapiscat.The latter claimed they had no school but they had a brand new hockey arena and a brand new Zamboni that had to be trucked in to the reserve.Makes sense to have that over something as frivilous as a school to be educated in.

FTH

[JCP]

Originally Posted by claystone

Seems to me they already had good drinking water but were relocated with the promise of the same in their new location. Its that promise that they want honoured.

While this may be true, why on earth would a community wait 17 years for someone else to step in and make it right. Why wouldn't they fix it them selves, then worry about collecting the funds from whom ever owes them. Just don't get it.

I will admit that I am uneducated on how reserves work, their funding from the government and how that works, why we fund them at all, etc so....
I tried to find something to read and although these articles are written by the CBC there was some interesting points. A good read none the less.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/how-do...work-1.1301120

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/7-ques...lity-1.1331320

Take what you want from this. I know my opinion on this subject and I will keep it to myself.

Good day.

[elkhunter11]

Disrespect is giving one race more rights than the other races of Canadians. So yes, our government has been disrespectful to the Canadians that don't have those special rights.

Sitting on your hands while constantly complaining about the government and other Canadians, instead of working to improve your situation in life,is disrespectful to all of Canada.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Many FN who feel disrespected need to look no further than their Chiefs and band leaders to determine the source of there plight...corruption at the top prevents a trickle down ...pun intended.

LC

[TimeOff]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Many FN who feel disrespected need to look no further than their Chiefs and band leaders to determine the source of there plight...corruption at the top prevents a trickle down ...pun intended.

LC

Exactly!. Have seen first hand working in different communities in the north. Chief and band council, Own the businesses, Construction contractors, which you must use to do any work in their area. Kickback's or "agreement's" if you don't.

The Chief and Council live well, taking Chartered planes to their vacation homes down south. The other member's working for the businesses make a decent living. The rest who don't, live in squalor.

Have seen some nice communities, and some not so nice. Depend's on how greedy the Elder's are.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by TimeOff

Exactly!. Have seen first hand working in different communities in the north. Chief and band council, Own the businesses, Construction contractors, which you must use to do any work in their area. Kickback's or "agreement's" if you don't.

The Chief and Council live well, taking Chartered planes to their vacation homes down south. The other member's working for the businesses make a decent living. The rest who don't, live in squalor.

Have seen some nice communities, and some not so nice. Depend's on how greedy the Elder's are.

But rather than blame their own people, the people that they themselves elected, the band will always blame the government.

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by gman1978

Let me get this straight? It's Harpers fault there is a boil water advisory??? So the government is suppose to look after them from birth to death. The real world don't work that way. Who was suppose to monitor and maintain the water service. Look there first if you want to blame. Or call Justin. He can send winter coats.

Rather than just making ignorant comments, perhaps more people should read the government of Canadas own pages...YES the government is legally obligated to look after them from birth to death....


Judicial Interpretation

In broad legal terms, a “fiduciary” is “one who holds anything in trust,” or “who holds a position of trust or confidence with respect to someone else.” Hence, a “fiduciary relationship” is one in which someone in a position of trust has “rights and powers which he is bound to exercise for the benefit” of another. Such relationships include those between trustees and their beneficiaries, solicitors and their clients, and so forth.(2)

The Supreme Court of Canada has adapted these largely private law concepts to the context of Crown-Aboriginal relations. In the 1950s, the Court observed that the Indian Act “embodie[d] the accepted view that these aborigines are … wards of the state, whose care and welfare are a political trust of the highest obligation.”(3) The Court’s landmark 1984 decision Guerin v. R. (1984)(4) portrayed this relationship more fully, and established that it could or did entail legal consequences. Guerin found that:

the fiduciary relationship is rooted in the concept of Aboriginal title,(5) coupled with the requirement, outlined above, that the Aboriginal interest in land may be alienated only via surrender to the Crown;
this requirement, which places the Crown between the Aboriginal group and third parties to prevent exploitation, gives the Crown discretion to decide the Aboriginal interest, and transforms its obligation into a fiduciary one so as to regulate Crown conduct when dealing with the land for the Aboriginal group;
in the unique Crown-Aboriginal relationship, the fiduciary obligation owed by the Crown is sui generis, or one of a kind.

http://www.parl.gc.ca/content/lop/re.../prb0009-e.htm

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Disrespect is giving one race more rights than the other races of Canadians. So yes, our government has been disrespectful to the Canadians that don't have those special rights.

Sitting on your hands while constantly complaining about the government and other Canadians, instead of working to improve your situation in life,is disrespectful to all of Canada.

White man speak with forked tongue, was a common phrase in old western movies. Apparently people like you like to forget the promises made........


http://www.parl.gc.ca/content/lop/re.../prb0009-e.htm

These notes are intended to provide a brief introduction to the complex and evolving “fiduciary” relationship between the Crown and Canada’s Aboriginal peoples.
Background

Canada’s Aboriginal peoples have always held a unique legal and constitutional position. In the Royal Proclamation of 1763, often referred to as the “Magna Carta of Indian Rights,” the colonial British Crown found it

just and reasonable, and essential to our Interest, and the Security of our Colonies, that the several Nations or Tribes of Indians with whom We are connected, and who live under our Protection, should not be molested or disturbed in the Possession of such Parts of Our Dominions and Territories as, not having been ceded to or purchased by Us, are reserved to them, or any of them, as their Hunting Grounds. (emphasis added)
Emphasizing the Crown’s concern with the “great Frauds and Abuses” committed by purchasers of Aboriginal lands, the Royal Proclamation reserved to the Crown the exclusive right to negotiate cessions (giving up) of Aboriginal title. A century later, subsection 91(24) of the Constitution Act, 1867 granted the federal Parliament legislative authority over “Indians, and Lands Reserved for the Indians.” Surrenders and designations of reserve land under the Indian Act, the principal vehicle for the exercise of federal jurisdiction over “status Indians” since 1876, reflect the “protective” provisions of the Royal Proclamation. In practice, pre- and post-Confederation federal governments negotiated surrenders of vast Aboriginal territories in major treaties concluded throughout the 19th and early 20th centuries, largely in Ontario and the western provinces excluding British Columbia. Finally, section 35 of the Constitution Act, 1982 recognizes and affirms “existing aboriginal and treaty rights” of Canada’s Aboriginal peoples, defined as including the “Indian, Inuit and Métis peoples.” In R. v. Van der Peet (1996),(1) the Supreme Court of Canada commented that

the doctrine of aboriginal rights exists, and is recognized and affirmed by s. 35(1), because of one simple fact: when Europeans arrived in North America, aboriginal peoples were already here, living in communities on the land, and participating in distinctive cultures, as they had done for centuries. It is this fact … above all others, which separates aboriginal peoples from all other minority groups in Canadian society and which mandates their special legal, and now constitutional, status. (emphasis in original)

[curtz]

A little off topic here but the same idea, I am not a parent so I cant tell someone how to raise there kids. I have noticed from friends and family, that the kids that spoiled and giving everything don't respect the stuff, if it breaks mom and dad will buy a new one. Kids that are taught that they have to work for something will take care and pride in what they have. I am not painting all FN people with the same brush but the ones that live off the government, if they worked for what they have I think they would take more pride.

[rugatika]

You think that's disrespectful, you should see what all the levels of government do to my paycheque.

[claystone]

[QUOTE=curtz;2878127]A little off topic here but the same idea, I am not a parent so I cant tell someone how to raise there kids. I have noticed from friends and family, that the kids that spoiled and giving everything don't respect the stuff, if it breaks mom and dad will buy a new one. Kids that are taught that they have to work for something will take care and pride in what they have. I am not painting all FN people with the same brush but the ones that live off the government, if they worked for what they have I think they would take more pride.

I have worked all my life for what I have and have taught this to my children, grandchildren and now great grandchildren,. I have seen what big oil money in the eighties did to some communities and how it created a huge disconnect between those trying to bring people into the "Work hard ,Take pride in what you've accomplished" Idea and those that would hand out oil revenues so they can line their own pockets,. We have a whole generation raised on easy money with no effort. Now the oil money is gone and we have a generation with no idea how to provide for themselves. I see the blame as shared between the government and the Band leadership.

[claystone]

[QUOTE=curtz;2878127]A little off topic here but the same idea, I am not a parent so I cant tell someone how to raise there kids. I have noticed from friends and family, that the kids that spoiled and giving everything don't respect the stuff, if it breaks mom and dad will buy a new one. Kids that are taught that they have to work for something will take care and pride in what they have. I am not painting all FN people with the same brush but the ones that live off the government, if they worked for what they have I think they would take more pride.

I have worked all my life for what I have and have taught this to my children, grandchildren and now great grandchildren,. I have seen what big oil money in the eighties did to some communities and how it created a huge disconnect between those trying to bring people into the "Work hard ,Take pride in what you've accomplished" Idea and those that would hand out oil revenues so they can line their own pockets,. We have a whole generation raised on easy money with no effort. Now the oil money is gone and we have a generation with no idea how to provide for themselves. I see the blame as shared between the government and the Band leadership.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

White man speak with forked tongue, was a common phrase in old western movies. Apparently people like you like to forget the promises made........


http://www.parl.gc.ca/content/lop/re.../prb0009-e.htm

These notes are intended to provide a brief introduction to the complex and evolving “fiduciary” relationship between the Crown and Canada’s Aboriginal peoples.
Background

Canada’s Aboriginal peoples have always held a unique legal and constitutional position. In the Royal Proclamation of 1763, often referred to as the “Magna Carta of Indian Rights,” the colonial British Crown found it

just and reasonable, and essential to our Interest, and the Security of our Colonies, that the several Nations or Tribes of Indians with whom We are connected, and who live under our Protection, should not be molested or disturbed in the Possession of such Parts of Our Dominions and Territories as, not having been ceded to or purchased by Us, are reserved to them, or any of them, as their Hunting Grounds. (emphasis added)
Emphasizing the Crown’s concern with the “great Frauds and Abuses” committed by purchasers of Aboriginal lands, the Royal Proclamation reserved to the Crown the exclusive right to negotiate cessions (giving up) of Aboriginal title. A century later, subsection 91(24) of the Constitution Act, 1867 granted the federal Parliament legislative authority over “Indians, and Lands Reserved for the Indians.” Surrenders and designations of reserve land under the Indian Act, the principal vehicle for the exercise of federal jurisdiction over “status Indians” since 1876, reflect the “protective” provisions of the Royal Proclamation. In practice, pre- and post-Confederation federal governments negotiated surrenders of vast Aboriginal territories in major treaties concluded throughout the 19th and early 20th centuries, largely in Ontario and the western provinces excluding British Columbia. Finally, section 35 of the Constitution Act, 1982 recognizes and affirms “existing aboriginal and treaty rights” of Canada’s Aboriginal peoples, defined as including the “Indian, Inuit and Métis peoples.” In R. v. Van der Peet (1996),(1) the Supreme Court of Canada commented that

the doctrine of aboriginal rights exists, and is recognized and affirmed by s. 35(1), because of one simple fact: when Europeans arrived in North America, aboriginal peoples were already here, living in communities on the land, and participating in distinctive cultures, as they had done for centuries. It is this fact … above all others, which separates aboriginal peoples from all other minority groups in Canadian society and which mandates their special legal, and now constitutional, status. (emphasis in original)

You couldn't be further from the truth, I have read the text of several of the treaties, and I believe that we should honor those treaties to the word. If the government promised a specific item in the treaty, then the government should ensure that the band that signed the treaty receive exactly those items. If something was not specifically mentioned in the treaty, then the band should not receive it. Unfortunately due to the constant whining and complaining by the bands that signed the treaties, the appointed idiots in our courts completely changed the intent and meaning of the treaties, and now the government is providing goods and services that did not even exist when the treaties were signed. As for our constitution , it to is a joke, as it does not make all Canadians equal under the law. Canada will never be as great as it could be , because of this nonsense.

[greylynx]

No money to dig a well?

Where was the federal funding to the band being spent? Who was spending the allocated funds?

Incidents like this should be audited by the Auditor General's department.

Whoops: I almost forgot. The Auditor General's department is not allowed to audit Native bands.

[CaberTosser]

CanuckShooter, that legislation, while accurate and standing, shouldn't take away their own fiduciary responsibility to themselves with what they've been gifted. Without sensible planning and budgeting no amount of money will ever plug the financial leaks in irresponsible & entrenched band management. I'm no religious type, but the phrase "The Lord helps those who help themselves" sure as hell seems applicable. I applaud the bands who have managed to avoid some of the traps and temptations laid before them, its sad on many levels that many have not for all of the members suffer from the incompetence. That incompetence is not the fault of the Canadian taxpayer, and we neither have the legislation nor bottomless budget to force our way in to fix things up.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by greylynx

No money to dig a well?

Where was the federal funding to the band being spent? Who was spending the allocated funds?

Incidents like this should be audited by the Auditor General's department.

Whoops: I almost forgot. The Auditor General's department is not allowed to audit Native bands.

I have visited a few reserves, and in every case it wasn't difficult to determine which house belonged to the chief. Between the house itself, and the high end vehicles and toys parked outside, it was quite obvious. Perhaps the band members need to start holding the chiefs that they elected accountable to spend some of the money for the benefit of the band, rather then on themselves?

[TROLLER]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

hort and long term drinking water advisories that are in place in First Nation communities on reserve located south of the 60 degree parallel in Canada.

As of May 31, 2015, there were 127 Drinking Water Advisories in effect in 88 First Nation communities across Canada, excluding British Columbia.



This is criminal, and it's happening here in Canada, while our government builds roads and drills well in iraq

Why don't you look up how many millions of dollars those 88 bands have gotten over the years and where all the money disappeared to. Bet they could have drilled hundreds if not thousands of water wells over the years.

So until they come clean to me as a taxpayer and especially to their own people that the consul and chief are stealing you are imo barking up the wrong tree by venting here.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

hort and long term drinking water advisories that are in place in First Nation communities on reserve located south of the 60 degree parallel in Canada.

As of May 31, 2015, there were 127 Drinking Water Advisories in effect in 88 First Nation communities across Canada, excluding British Columbia.



This is criminal, and it's happening here in Canada, while our government builds roads and drills well in iraq

Mmmmmm. Maybe we should hire non natives to go in in and cut their grass also ???? Maybe paint their homes and tow their old cars off their lawns ?
It's funny that natives overall can't seem to look after themselves or their possessions . Why do you think that is C.S. ?

[Sundancefisher]

To really understand the problem you need to look at The bands finances over that time. Bands more often demand the money so they can autonomously use it as deemed necessary.

All too often the money is given to address the problem but then diverted mysteriously elsewhere.

Should the work get done then maintenance and repair gets managed by the band. Often the goes undone and the infrastructure falls apart.

Where does the money go? Corrupt council, chief, poor spending control, wrong spending allocation and priorities...?

Until you see the books any rant against anyone is meaningless crap.

This and I am fully supportive of first nations rights. But they need to be open and transparent.

[great white whaler]

I think we the people should hand over all rights to this great land ,,,to the natives and let them run it the way they want ...for this great land is becoming toxic ...lets go green maybe its not to late to save the earth

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

This is a national disgrace, and Mr. Harper and his cronies should be ashamed of themselves. How can a government of Canada be so callous towards her own people??


http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/shoal-l...tion-1.2440723

Stewart Redsky was among those visibly upset. "For 100 years, Shoal Lake 40 First Nation has had to pay so Winnipeg could get fresh water," he said. "Our people deserve an answer today."
Shoal Lake 40, on the border of Ontario and Manitoba, declared a state of emergency earlier this year after the ferry that linked it to other communities was shut down.
Not only were people cut off from medical care and grocery stores, they had no way to bring in the bottled water the community has relied on ever since a boil water advisory was put in place 17 years ago.

The Ojibway community was moved to a man-made island 100 years ago so that Winnipeg could draw clean drinking water. Shoal Lake residents were left with water so dirty that weeds sometimes come through the taps.

So you have already been corrected as to which government was in power at the time.

So here is there finance statement.

Band finances 2014

Here is a portion of that.

In June 1989, the Nation entered into a 60 year agreement with the Province of Manitoba and the City of Winnipeg for the preservation of water quality on Shoal Lake. The Province of Manitoba and the City of Winnipeg each paid $3,000,000 to a Trustee for investment, with the Nation being entitled to the income earned subject to the terms and conditions of the agreement. The principal sum of the trust is to be disbursed to the Nation upon the expiry of the agreement after 60 years, or upon termination of the agreement prior to the full term, the sum calculated as the principal multiplied by the expired term divided by 60 years, 2014 - $3,500,000 (2013 - $3,600,000). The investment balance consists of the following:

Clearly a very large sum was offered to the band for the use of maintaining safe and reliable water. So...what has the band used it for so far since 1989? 24 years of investment income?

So look at page 19...see where the money is spent. Look at admin and honoraria etc.

Shoal Lake #40 First Nation
Schedule 2 -
Consolidated Schedule of Expenses by Object
For the
year ended
March 31, 2014
2014 Budget
2014
2013 (Restated)
Consolidated expenses by object
Administrative expenses
754,871
1,125,263
1,001,421
Amortization
-
448,791
441,568
Bank charges and interest


Page 22...they spend >$80K a year on water delivery. I would love to see their quote on alternatives such as water wells or water purification units, cisterns etc.

Such an important budget...given water seems so critical...yet it doesn't get a mention.

So why have they spent nothing on the issue yet claim it so critical?

Why are they 1 million dollars over budget on Admin? Page 21 summarizes Admin expenses.

Their budgeting skill are terrible...even with years of previous history.

So why are they not allocating money from the water investment fund to water investing projects?

You have placed ALL the blame on politicians like you think they control these first nations groups. However they are functionally autonomous with very large budgets. They are failing their people and making excuses for more money it seems.

About time you recognize that fact rather than falsely blaming Harper when Chretien was the boss at the time. Then blaming society for not throwing good money after bad at these problems when in fact a well maintained operation would easily manage with existing funds.
21,000
30,242
35,274
Community development
10,000
43,302
-
Consulting fees
5,000
14,824
40,075
Contracted services
347,473
207,883
681,148
Cultural development
18,604
15,310
5,568
Economic development
21,000
5,567
384
Equipment purchase and rentals
211,300
126,936
97,806
Honoraria, salaries and benefits
1,558,340
2,248,150
2,249,452
Materials and supplies
110,680
316,141
346,813
Office and utilities
248,600
247,750
248,910
Professional fees
283,724
431,148
288,534
Repairs and maintenance
58,000
177,597
279,040
Social assistance
-
213,787
194,669
Student expenses
239,000
199,143
190,056
Training and travel
327,851
742,575
739,753
4,215,443
6,594,409
6,840,471

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by great white whaler

I think we the people should hand over all rights to this great land ,,,to the natives and let them run it the way they want ...for this great land is becoming toxic ...lets go green maybe its not to late to save the earth

Pollution would be decreased dramatically when everything shuts down while they are waiting for someone else to look after it.

[Purple Farmer]

Cs, assuming you have a cursory understanding of the information you have posted, you have no choice but to concede that the federal government has met its obligations and often exceeded them. Do you believe that band 40 is compliant with their obligations?

Think you understand fiduciary obligation, duty, ethics and morals? Not yet you don't.

How is it that band 39 is a polar opposite?

And are you aware of how chief red sky spent the 1 million given by the city of Winnipeg, you know the money that was provided under a federal grant for infrastructure and then donated to the band.

there is too much evidence of what has really happened, but you do not wish to accept it.

Fiduciary duty indeed.

[CaberTosser]

Geesh Sundance, why'd you have to go bringing facts like financial statements into the discussion? We needed more unsubstantiated hysteria and now you've gone and taken that away.

[Sundancefisher]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manito...tion-1.3126767

Such poor journalism these days. Nothing but shock and awe...but no substantiation.

Commenting on people drowning crossing to get mail and groceries. Sounds scary...but how many and what were the circumstances. Drowning deaths happen all over. One person in 30 years is different than 1 person a year. One would be statistical tragedy...the other would be likely causal.


Complaint was the canal cut off a section of the reserve. Looks like in this article they have approved the bridge and are building it.

It states..." the canal also prevents the Shoal Lake First Nation from building an economically viable water treatment plant" yet no back up for such a key statement.

This article says two bridges are being built.

http://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/city-of-w...tion-1.2439636

Interesting.

[BlackHeart]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

Clearly some people have no social conscience at all, and fail to understand that Canada has a fiduciary duty to look after Aboriginals.....

And THAT statement, and the attitude behind it,is key to your problems.

Ever tell someone they are their own worst enemy. That their attitude and victimhood thinking holds them back from actually do something positive for themselves and by themselves, instead of whineing and blaming everyone else for their misery.

Social conscience and fiduciary duty!!!......what a wheelbarrow full of steaming BS.
Trying to guilt trip canadian into throw more money into the already outrageous salaries for chiefs, and other totally wasteful social programs.

You see the problem with dependency is that it never breeds self-sufficiency without a push out....even birds get it, when they push fledglings out of the nest. But whiny groups that have made it a way of life to suckle at the teat, and use Political correctness to stifle criticism and cover up their own lack of internal responsibility, (and financial accountability) will keep pushing for more and more dependency ($ $ $) until they are so dependent and useless, society starts to seriously question their worth.

I worked in the govt of the NWT and that was a billion dollars a year sink hole of social programs and the organizations to administer what mostly was a total lack of accountability, from the receiving side, for the achievement of any meaningful effect.....just a ton of whineing for more and abuse after abuse. If more Canadians actual worked for a few years with these programs, the attitude would match reality and there would be little tolerance for these victimhood plays.

[greylynx]

Originally Posted by great white whaler

I think we the people should hand over all rights to this great land ,,,to the natives and let them run it the way they want ...for this great land is becoming toxic ...lets go green maybe its not to late to save the earth

Not the whole country. Let us use Newfoundland as the first experiment.

Maybe ol greylynx has opened up his yap too much. From the Bay Boys I know in Alberta, these guys could make it using the old ways of fishing and hunting and growing a garden. Home made booze included.

No. Let us start with greater Toronto and area. Yes. that would be good place.