Kelowna Officer Shoots himself?

[Hotwheels81]

Originally Posted by qwert

Almost all accidental discharges are more properly described as NEGLIGENT DISCHARGEs.

Truly 'accidental' discharges that injure any person, are also more properly described as NEGLIGENT DISCHARGEs, caused by failures of proper gun handling procedures (failure to control muzzle direction) and TRAINING.

Lack of criminal intent does not excuse negligent actions.

Good Luck, YMMV.

Re-read what I wrote...

A negligent discharge is likely to end in support payments... Accidental could be solved with a clean pair of shorts....

Y'all need to lighten up...

I'm stirring the Facebook pot on castanet to get this fella to apologize to the public for the incident... Stupid should hurt, chit happens, lots of friends back there would feel better if the guy came forward an admitted he messed up an learned something... We don't need an enquiry just an affirmation that the local RC's aren't trigger happy power tripping roid monkeys... Well... Some of them anyway.

[bb356]

Originally Posted by huntinstuff

He is the poster boy for idiotic gun owners. His target, his quick draw, the whole scenario........ and then he makes a follow up video cause he assumes he is an Internet sensation.

He is simply another idiot. With two YouTube videos ........

yup

[ETOWNCANUCK]

Does anyone know the stats on workplace injuries?

Because there are a lot of so called professionals who get injured by their own stupidity every day.

They just have the good fortune of not having that incident published by an over anxious media.

[qwert]

Originally Posted by Hotwheels81

Re-read what I wrote...

A negligent discharge is likely to end in support payments... Accidental could be solved with a clean pair of shorts....

Y'all need to lighten up...

I'm stirring the Facebook pot on castanet to get this fella to apologize to the public for the incident... Stupid should hurt, chit happens, lots of friends back there would feel better if the guy came forward an admitted he messed up an learned something... We don't need an enquiry just an affirmation that the local RC's aren't trigger happy power tripping roid monkeys... Well... Some of them anyway.

With respect,
My post # 29 was intended to correct the use by you (and many others) of the term ‘accident’ when (IMHO) ‘negligent’ is more appropriate. Firearms safety is best achieved by correct terminology which expresses the seriousness of our actions. Use of the word ‘accident’ depreciates the message to one of ‘***** happens’, and conveys a hidden meaning of acceptance of inevitability.

I am now objecting to your depreciation (in post #31, quoted) of a very serious incident to a joking mater.

The willingness to excuse the police for negligent, improper, or illegal actions because of our ‘hope’ that it was not motivated by malintent, and that would not be acceptable if committed by a citizen, only encourages repetition.

IMHO, we do not need to ‘lighten up’, what we need to do is demand performance, professionalism and honesty from those we permit to carry deadly arms in the performance of their duties. I do not know the cause of this incident and suspect that we will not receive a proper investigation to determine what failures of training, or procedure, or judgements of fitness for duty, contributed to it. If any of these failures are considered acceptable then we can expect a repeat.

I would also note that this or any police officer is not even required to have an RPAL, or to have obtained the minimal amount of training that standard requires. Perhaps we need to ask if police firearms training and oversight is too important to be performed by themselves.

I also suspect we are closer to fundamental agreement than our posts would indicate, and explain that the sternness of my replies is the result of my concern for both firearms safety and police accountability and citizen oversight.

Regards & Good Luck, YMMV.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by ETOWNCANUCK

Does anyone know the stats on workplace injuries?

Because there are a lot of so called professionals who get injured by their own stupidity every day.

They just have the good fortune of not having that incident published by an over anxious media.

Exactly.

[roper1]

Originally Posted by ETOWNCANUCK

Does anyone know the stats on workplace injuries?

Because there are a lot of so called professionals who get injured by their own stupidity every day.

They just have the good fortune of not having that incident published by an over anxious media.

You hit your thumb with a hammer, the possible collateral damage to your co-workers or public fairly low compared to negligent discharge of a firearm. Over anxious media just responding to over protective blue wall, also so-called professionals.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by roper1

You hit your thumb with a hammer, the possible collateral damage to your co-workers or public fairly low compared to negligent discharge of a firearm. Over anxious media just responding to over protective blue wall, also so-called professionals.

How about a professional that stood s hammer, bull pin ,sleaver bar, 1" bolt for 50 feet of better , a 45 lb plank from. 80 feet, a scaffold tube from over 100 feet, a 25 ton shackle from over. 50 feet, or a guy that cuts loose a ladder and doesn't 't take it off, leaving it for the next guy to grab and fall ?
All of these have happened on sites I have worked at, and don't get Me going on switches , valves , or feed lines that were energized before they were signed off!
Cat

[Hotwheels81]

Originally Posted by qwert

With respect,
My post # 29 was intended to correct the use by you (and many others) of the term ‘accident’ when (IMHO) ‘negligent’ is more appropriate. Firearms safety is best achieved by correct terminology which expresses the seriousness of our actions. Use of the word ‘accident’ depreciates the message to one of ‘***** happens’, and conveys a hidden meaning of acceptance of inevitability.
Yes ACCIDENTS happen, and they are inevitable.


I am now objecting to your depreciation (in post #31, quoted) of a very serious incident to a joking mater.

The willingness to excuse the police for negligent, improper, or illegal actions because of our ‘hope’ that it was not motivated by malintent, and that would not be acceptable if committed by a citizen, only encourages repetition.
Your saying the officer purposefully discharged the firearm into his foot? I guess that would make the accidental discharge not accidental thus the shot was aimed and no innocent members of the public were in danger?

IMHO, we do not need to ‘lighten up’, what we need to do is demand performance, professionalism and honesty from those we permit to carry deadly arms in the performance of their duties. I do not know the cause of this incident and suspect that we will not receive a proper investigation to determine what failures of training, or procedure, or judgements of fitness for duty, contributed to it. If any of these failures are considered acceptable then we can expect a repeat.
thousands of officers holster loaded firearms daily, If you won't concede that a mistake will inevitably happen I just don't know what to tell you... I for one am glad to see such measures in every day life as fire trucks and first aid kits, and oh yes.... Paperwork...

I would also note that this or any police officer is not even required to have an RPAL, or to have obtained the minimal amount of training that standard requires. Perhaps we need to ask if police firearms training and oversight is too important to be performed by themselves.
You seem to think that your 6hr classroom time on the difference between a wheel lock and a flint lock or how many various locks are required by law was more in depth and comprehensive than the training a police officer receives to shoot people? Interesting indeed


I also suspect we are closer to fundamental agreement than our posts would indicate, and explain that the sternness of my replies is the result of my concern for both firearms safety and police accountability and citizen oversight.

I agree there needs to be accountability BUT I know the system does not allow for weakness in the public eye... I'm hoping for a public "I screwd up" and not a 6 month holiday with pay for this ******* while the system figures out what went wrong

Regards & Good Luck, YMMV.

We shall just call it a difference of opinion I guess

[Got Juice?]

We were taught to keep your booger picker off the bang switch until you were ready to fire on your target.

This is NOT an accident. Negligence is the correct term.

[ETOWNCANUCK]

Originally Posted by roper1

You hit your thumb with a hammer, the possible collateral damage to your co-workers or public fairly low compared to negligent discharge of a firearm. Over anxious media just responding to over protective blue wall, also so-called professionals.

Does it matter if it is a gun or a hammer?

Both by themselves are harmless objects,

Both have the ability to inflict serious injury,

Both are able to be used to kill a man.

Regardless

We have all seen careless use of a firearm by many a recreational user.

Some disguise it as hunting,

And if you haven't then troll on another forum.

As soon as its RCMP, or EPS the haters line up a mile long.

Yet come hunting season every year it seems to be more and more armchair hunters, and more hunting accidents occur.

They're the same thing.

I expect respect in the woods,
That's not always the case.

Those cases make the news/ not all mind you.
Not sure on starts but pretty sure they would have the cops beat.

[qwert]

Originally Posted by Hotwheels81

We shall just call it a difference of opinion I guess

In post # 38 you have replied with contradictory opinion, which is your privilege.

You have unfortunately also attempted to rebut imputed statements which I did not make,
and have no desire to make or defend now.

We agree that there needs to be accountability, but disagree on how to deal with this failure in order to best prevent its repetition. IMHO this officer needs a significant ‘time out’ for healing and retraining and reassessment before they are fit to return to active duty, if ever. I suspect that this and more would be required of a private citizen in a similar situation, as their firearms would probably be seized, and their RPAL and ATT suspended pending the outcome of the probable charges. The major difference would be that the citizen would not collect wages and his legal defence expenses would not be supplied. IMHO, a simple “mea culpa’ is insufficient for either.

Industrial safety management has come a long way since we learned that accidents did not need to be inevitable, and while industrial activity is still many times more dangerous and more likely to result in serious injury and death than is police work, the accident rates of both have been reduced by proper training and safety and situation management.

I am quite content to agree to disagree.

Good Luck, YMMV.