Go Back   Alberta Outdoorsmen Forum > Main Category > Fishing Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-26-2020, 11:52 PM
Carson13's Avatar
Carson13 Carson13 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 141
Default Disappointed in R.A.P.

Recently, a friend of mine was out fishing on a trout lake in Alberta with a zero catch limit. There was ONLY ONE other group on the lake, my friend walked over to ask how they were doing and realized they had a fish in the box of the truck. They bragged about it and even identified they knew it was illegal!Having bad cell service on the lake, my friend messaged me, to call RAP about the poachers.

After speaking with the receptionist and a short wait for F&W to call me back, I was informed that the closest officer was 2 hours away but was en-route.

When the Conservation Officer showed up to the lake his lights were blasting. He headed straight to the Poachers and looked in the back of the truck where the illegal fish was kept. After seeing the group packing up and leaving, my friend thought justice was served.

The officer stopped by a short while later to break the news - a $200 Ticket and a seized fish ! Didn’t even force them off the lake and could have continued to fish, the officer says! - (BS IMO). Also, had a warning for my friend that they knew he called RAP, and to watch his back fishing the rest of the day. My friend asked what violation it would take for them to be escorted off the lake, the CO stated “10 bulltrout on the ice”. (Now I understand small communities and the local poachers most likely knowing the officer, but at what point is it time to lay a serious fine?) The Officer then explained he felt the ticket taught him the lesson he needed. My friend after the officer left, immediately packed up and headed home from a 3 day trip - on day 1. He was concerned the poachers may return looking for revenge.

F&W called me a couple days later to inform me they had caught the poachers. I expressed my concern about the low fine and they were brushed off!

A couple days ago my friend received a cheque from RAP, as is their process. We were thinking it would be a small percentage of the fine, but it was $400! Twice the amount of the initial fine! Not to mention the officers 2 hour drive to lay the fine.

A disappointing realization that it costs the taxpayer more to catch a poacher than to just stock another fish!

Where’s the logic in this?

Carson
__________________
I Became A Fisherman Just For The Halibut!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-27-2020, 05:34 AM
MooseRiverTrapper MooseRiverTrapper is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,902
Default

Lots of complaining
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-27-2020, 06:04 AM
58thecat's Avatar
58thecat 58thecat is online now
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: At the end of the Thirsty Beaver Trail, Pinsky lake, Alberta.
Posts: 24,502
Default

You need a nap eh!
__________________

Be careful when you follow the masses, sometimes the "M" is silent...
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-27-2020, 06:48 AM
Carson13's Avatar
Carson13 Carson13 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 141
Default Intentions of post

My intention in posting this isn’t to complain or berate the CO or poacher, or anyone, only to point out the inequality between the crime, punishment, and reward, that we’re all on the hook for.

thanks!
__________________
I Became A Fisherman Just For The Halibut!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-27-2020, 07:04 AM
Smoky buck Smoky buck is online now
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 7,329
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carson13 View Post
My intention in posting this isn’t to complain or berate the CO or poacher, or anyone, only to point out the inequality between the crime, punishment, and reward, that we’re all on the hook for.

thanks!
This has been an issue for a long time with fish & wildlife offenses in Canada
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-27-2020, 07:11 AM
JohninAB's Avatar
JohninAB JohninAB is online now
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West Central Alberta
Posts: 6,668
Default

RAP rewards are not funded from income taxes but from a levy placed on hunting and fishing licenses that is used to fund the ACA. ACA then administers the RAP reward program from their funding.

The idea behind a fine, especially for retaining one fish, is not to bankrupt someone but hopefully deter further illegal acts ie poaching.

Why should the officer escort the guilty party off the ice? If you get stopped and ticketed for speeding, do they remove you from the road for the day?

As with most violation tickets, till your day in court or your voluntary payment, you are presumed innocent.

I think the RAP program functioned as it should in this case.

Oh and was it a CO or a Fish and Wildlife officer that ticketed the other party?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-27-2020, 07:20 AM
Carson13's Avatar
Carson13 Carson13 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 141
Default

Likely Fish and wildlife officer, sorry, my bad..

Guess this is why our governments are all in such debt!

Update: just replayed one of my messages, they definitely said Conservation Officer
__________________
I Became A Fisherman Just For The Halibut!

Last edited by Carson13; 02-27-2020 at 07:29 AM. Reason: Correct facts
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-27-2020, 07:59 AM
ghostguy6's Avatar
ghostguy6 ghostguy6 is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: edmonton
Posts: 3,116
Default

Look at the bright side, at least they got caught. I would say the majority of poachers are not caught.

I am not exactly sure how the reward values are calculated but from what I have experienced it has never been more than the total of the ticket(s). The only one I bothered to research came out to about 30% of the known violations, but then again I do not know exactly what the offenders were charged with.

Perhaps the poachers you reported received multiple fines for other offenses so the tickets were more than just a $200 fine?
__________________
" Everything in life that I enjoy is either illegal, immoral, fattening or causes cancer!"

"The problem was this little thing called the government and laws."
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-27-2020, 08:20 AM
58thecat's Avatar
58thecat 58thecat is online now
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: At the end of the Thirsty Beaver Trail, Pinsky lake, Alberta.
Posts: 24,502
Default

ok so your buddy informed you and you made the call....fish cops are spread thin so took some time to get there...fish cop went right to them and engaged...one offence and ticketed accordingly...your upset because you think it should have been more and I agree but justice was served...you don't loose your car for a rolling stop...fish cop talks to your buddy lets him know what went on...your buddy packs up as he is concerned...might get visitors...maybe a good call but thats all part of stepping up and stop criminals from taking...you get rewarded for your call in which is a good thing as it encourages people to get involved...split the reward with your buddy...you both did a good thing...everything is not perfect but it is better than nothing.
__________________

Be careful when you follow the masses, sometimes the "M" is silent...

Last edited by 58thecat; 02-27-2020 at 08:34 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-27-2020, 08:20 AM
krthegunslinger krthegunslinger is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 548
Default Too lenient

Fine should be at minimum enough to cover all costs associated to the particular offense. RAP reward, officers time , cost of running FWO truck down the road , RAP operators time etc. All costs. Cut, dried and bailed as my pops would say.

And to take your vehicle for a day or two when caught speeding. I’m all for that too. Speed kills. Plain and simple. Look up The stats for energy exerted on the body in a crash as speed increase over 100kmh. And for what to save minutes in the end.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-27-2020, 08:53 AM
pikergolf's Avatar
pikergolf pikergolf is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,286
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by krthegunslinger View Post
Fine should be at minimum enough to cover all costs associated to the particular offense. RAP reward, officers time , cost of running FWO truck down the road , RAP operators time etc. All costs. Cut, dried and bailed as my pops would say.

And to take your vehicle for a day or two when caught speeding. I’m all for that too. Speed kills. Plain and simple. Look up The stats for energy exerted on the body in a crash as speed increase over 100kmh. And for what to save minutes in the end.
Plus a little to go into the wildlife kitty. We treat offenders like it means nothing.
__________________
“One of the sad signs of our times is that we have demonized those who produce, subsidized those who refuse to produce, and canonized those who complain.”

Thomas Sowell
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-27-2020, 08:55 AM
HuyFishin's Avatar
HuyFishin HuyFishin is offline
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Edmonton Alberta
Posts: 1,879
Default

so whats the difference in Fish and wildlife vs a conservation officer?

I've called RAP before and two vehicles came and two guys in different uniforms.
__________________

YouTube:@huyfishin Fishing Videos!

Respect wildlife
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-27-2020, 09:17 AM
CNP's Avatar
CNP CNP is online now
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: WMU 303
Posts: 8,480
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohninAB View Post
RAP rewards are not funded from income taxes but from a levy placed on hunting and fishing licenses that is used to fund the ACA. ACA then administers the RAP reward program from their funding.

The idea behind a fine, especially for retaining one fish, is not to bankrupt someone but hopefully deter further illegal acts ie poaching.

Why should the officer escort the guilty party off the ice? If you get stopped and ticketed for speeding, do they remove you from the road for the day?

As with most violation tickets, till your day in court or your voluntary payment, you are presumed innocent.

I think the RAP program functioned as it should in this case.

Oh and was it a CO or a Fish and Wildlife officer that ticketed the other party?
Thanks John...…………………a breath of fresh air from the AO gulag
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-27-2020, 09:25 AM
CNP's Avatar
CNP CNP is online now
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: WMU 303
Posts: 8,480
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carson13 View Post
Recently, a friend of mine was out fishing on a trout lake in Alberta with a zero catch limit. There was ONLY ONE other group on the lake, my friend walked over to ask how they were doing and realized they had a fish in the box of the truck. They bragged about it and even identified they knew it was illegal!Having bad cell service on the lake, my friend messaged me, to call RAP about the poachers.

After speaking with the receptionist and a short wait for F&W to call me back, I was informed that the closest officer was 2 hours away but was en-route.

When the Conservation Officer showed up to the lake his lights were blasting. He headed straight to the Poachers and looked in the back of the truck where the illegal fish was kept. After seeing the group packing up and leaving, my friend thought justice was served.

The officer stopped by a short while later to break the news - a $200 Ticket and a seized fish ! Didn’t even force them off the lake and could have continued to fish, the officer says! - (BS IMO). Also, had a warning for my friend that they knew he called RAP, and to watch his back fishing the rest of the day. My friend asked what violation it would take for them to be escorted off the lake, the CO stated “10 bulltrout on the ice”. (Now I understand small communities and the local poachers most likely knowing the officer, but at what point is it time to lay a serious fine?) The Officer then explained he felt the ticket taught him the lesson he needed. My friend after the officer left, immediately packed up and headed home from a 3 day trip - on day 1. He was concerned the poachers may return looking for revenge.

F&W called me a couple days later to inform me they had caught the poachers. I expressed my concern about the low fine and they were brushed off!

A couple days ago my friend received a cheque from RAP, as is their process. We were thinking it would be a small percentage of the fine, but it was $400! Twice the amount of the initial fine! Not to mention the officers 2 hour drive to lay the fine.

A disappointing realization that it costs the taxpayer more to catch a poacher than to just stock another fish!

Where’s the logic in this?

Carson
I cannot fathom why you are disappointed. An officer despite being two hours away, responds to the call of one fish being unlawfully retained and executes his duty. Add in the officers salary, vehicle and other support towards the taxpayers bill. It's not about making money. I have no problem with the outcome.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-27-2020, 09:38 AM
Talking moose's Avatar
Talking moose Talking moose is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: McBride/Prince George
Posts: 14,521
Default

You called them: they came: they fined poachers: you receive reward: your angry with this:
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 02-27-2020, 10:51 AM
Donkey Oatey Donkey Oatey is online now
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,260
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HuyFishin View Post
so whats the difference in Fish and wildlife vs a conservation officer?

I've called RAP before and two vehicles came and two guys in different uniforms.
Fish & Wildlife Officer is just that, an officer that enforces fish and wildlife laws.

Conservation Officer is in Provincial Parks. The old Park Ranger job.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by huntinstuff View Post
Attention Anti Hunters
Sit back
Pour yourself a tea

Watch us "sportsmen" attack each other and destroy ourselves from within.

From road hunters vs "real hunters" to bowhunters vs rifle hunters, long bows and recurves vs compound user to bow vs crossbow to white hunters vs Native hunters etc etc etc
.....

Enjoy the easy ride, anti hunters. Strange to me why we seem to be doing your job for you.

Excuse me while I go puke.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02-27-2020, 12:59 PM
mlee mlee is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Wainwright
Posts: 581
Default

I fish a fairly secluded C&R lake quite often which happens to have a healthy population of large pike (30+" average) and walleye (24" average). A busy day on that lake might be 6-8 groups and this was a busy day. Anyway same situation....I did not make the call but one of our group did as this guy was gutting walleye (plural) on the lake. F&W showed up about 2 hours later....seized the fish made him pack up and head out. My friend was informed this guy was fined $500....and he received his $400 reward. I know this stuff happens on this lake a lot....I've never ever seen F&W out there.....and I hate being that guy but good fisheries are so few and far between in alberta. I personally think the fines are a bit low but it is what it is.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 02-27-2020, 01:14 PM
TBark's Avatar
TBark TBark is online now
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Fort Sask, AB
Posts: 4,910
Default

I hope your buddy gave you half?
But approching another party and peeking into their truck box, be careful.
And continuing to fish that day with you and them as the only 2 groups out, ballzy.

TBark
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02-27-2020, 02:32 PM
Smoky buck Smoky buck is online now
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 7,329
Default

Need to adopt the old African way of dealing with poachers and the problem will be solved

People will probably still say the punishment is not harsh enough
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02-28-2020, 07:59 AM
musak4ears musak4ears is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 24
Default

I thank you and your buddy Carson13 for making this happen. Feels like we have little control over fines and such, but are in total control to make that call and send a message to others that what they are doing is not right.

I am curious if the fine/ticket is attached to their WIN card and will affect future purchases of licenses if it remains unpaid???
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 02-28-2020, 08:14 AM
fisher Gord fisher Gord is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 240
Default

because the ticket is issued by the justice department same as a speeding ticket. will surface when u buy license. u don't have to accept the reward.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 02-28-2020, 08:46 AM
sns2's Avatar
sns2 sns2 is online now
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: My House
Posts: 13,445
Default

You and your buddy did the right thing. Co did the right thing too, he enforced the law. Take your half of the money and buy new hooks. Simple.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 02-28-2020, 09:30 AM
Bushleague Bushleague is offline
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 3,556
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostguy6 View Post
Look at the bright side, at least they got caught. I would say the majority of poachers are not caught.

I am not exactly sure how the reward values are calculated but from what I have experienced it has never been more than the total of the ticket(s). The only one I bothered to research came out to about 30% of the known violations, but then again I do not know exactly what the offenders were charged with.

Perhaps the poachers you reported received multiple fines for other offenses so the tickets were more than just a $200 fine?
x2.

Last hunting season I caught a few hunters loading an untagged moose into their truck, not a "keeper" in the bunch. I took a picture, got the licence plate numbers, and called RAP. The CO explained to me that he had a lot of country to cover, was not in the area, and would likely not be showing up. I asked about the pictures and licence numbers, he half heartedly told me to call the office and give it to them. Through the grapevine I found a couple guys who know the hunters involved, the call was never followed up at all.

Very disappointing, because I stumbled upon what I would have thought was pretty much a worst case scenario for a poacher. I understand that the pictures would not necessarily have resulted in charges, but if the CO had at least contacted and questioned the individuals they might think twice before trying it again. To the best of anyone's knowledge, no attempt whatsoever was made on this front.

They sure do a good job of making sure nobody enjoys a beer or two while ice fishing though, so I guess that's something.
__________________
If the good lord didnt want me to ride a four wheeler with no shirt on, then how come my nipples grow back after every wipeout?

Last edited by Bushleague; 02-28-2020 at 09:36 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-01-2020, 08:53 AM
58thecat's Avatar
58thecat 58thecat is online now
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: At the end of the Thirsty Beaver Trail, Pinsky lake, Alberta.
Posts: 24,502
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushleague View Post
x2.

Last hunting season I caught a few hunters loading an untagged moose into their truck, not a "keeper" in the bunch. I took a picture, got the licence plate numbers, and called RAP. The CO explained to me that he had a lot of country to cover, was not in the area, and would likely not be showing up. I asked about the pictures and licence numbers, he half heartedly told me to call the office and give it to them. Through the grapevine I found a couple guys who know the hunters involved, the call was never followed up at all.

Very disappointing, because I stumbled upon what I would have thought was pretty much a worst case scenario for a poacher. I understand that the pictures would not necessarily have resulted in charges, but if the CO had at least contacted and questioned the individuals they might think twice before trying it again. To the best of anyone's knowledge, no attempt whatsoever was made on this front.

They sure do a good job of making sure nobody enjoys a beer or two while ice fishing though, so I guess that's something.

Spread very thin and yup when they do show up ya better have all in order....if your doing something wrong and ya know it then don't be surprised when ya get busted....I bet there in box is full of jobs waiting to be followed up on....things take time....spoke to the fish cops last week on the ice and they mentioned even on a lake if it is busy then they just stick to one area u less they get pulled away on a call etc....undermanned occupation for the area to be covered but they are doing a good job.
__________________

Be careful when you follow the masses, sometimes the "M" is silent...
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 03-01-2020, 11:00 AM
KBF's Avatar
KBF KBF is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: WMU 108
Posts: 2,465
Default

I’m a poor fisherman as it is, never mind fishing a lake where there’s a zero keep limit. Is there any species of fish that can be kept in that lake? Why do they allow those lakes to be fished if there’s zero keep limits?
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 03-01-2020, 11:46 AM
dth_ dth_ is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Sherwood Park
Posts: 138
Default

The real issue here is that they blew any resemblance of anonymity that RAP is supposed to have.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.