Wirehaired pointing griffon

[xrem597x1977]

I have just been offered a Wirehaired pointing griffon from one of the best breeders in the USA. the pup is 18 months old. any tips? comments? concerns? would be greatly appreciated.

thanks in advance

[silverdoctor]

Fine looking dogs, should have good breeding, still young. What are your concerns?

Going to put the pup to work?

[densa44]

Don't worry about what the breed is, there is more variance within a breed than between breeds.

The most expensive dog that you can get is a free dog, so be careful.

Look at the dog's pedigree, you can find it on the NAVHDA.org site read about the litter mates and the parents.

One thing to be aware of is Griffs have a show component and as the Bible says you can't serve 2 masters, it is either show or performance.

Has the dog run in a NAVHDA test? How did it do?

Has it hunted, it should have 2 seasons of experience?

Are there any health problems?

Good luck, BTW a good Griff will be right at home here in Alberta.

[xrem597x1977]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

Fine looking dogs, should have good breeding, still young. What are your concerns?

Going to put the pup to work?

I've never owned a dog that wasn't a puppy before. it's also my first gun dog.

not really sure what to be on the look out for? not really sure what concerns I have, i'm just kinda trolling for advice and the like. I'm am new to this whole upland hunting fun. haven't even got out yet, or got a shotgun. I wasn't expecting to get a dog for at least 1.5 to 2 years according to the waiting lists that i'm on at the 2 other breeders I've been dealing with over the past few months. although, I am completely prepared to receive the dog. I think I am very lucky to be considered by this particular breeder...sometimes things happen for a reason.

I am definitely putting the dog to work.

[xrem597x1977]

Originally Posted by densa44

Don't worry about what the breed is, there is more variance within a breed than between breeds.

The most expensive dog that you can get is a free dog, so be careful.

Look at the dog's pedigree, you can find it on the NAVHDA.org site read about the litter mates and the parents.

One thing to be aware of is Griffs have a show component and as the Bible says you can't serve 2 masters, it is either show or performance.

Has the dog run in a NAVHDA test? How did it do?

Has it hunted, it should have 2 seasons of experience?

Are there any health problems?

Good luck, BTW a good Griff will be right at home here in Alberta.

the dog is not free, but it is coming at a slightly discounted price from the regular $2000 USD price. i've done extensive research on the breeder and he actually was my first choice of breeder and came highly recommended from other breeders in the USA. he only breeds working dogs, circus animals do not come from his stock. he also has a very extensive training regime and school for the Griffs and owners as well.

I will be speaking with the breeder over the phone this evening to get the rest of the details. i'll keep this thread updated with what I find out tonight after the interview.

[silverdoctor]

My Minpin is the first dog I've owned in 10 years, swore off dogs after my last one died. I'll admit, I had reservations about taking him into my life. Since I've had him, everything has changed, hang on for the ride.

If you take the dog, it doesn't mean you have to change your life tomorrow. there's nothing like raising a puppy, it's a blank slate. Older dogs, they can be a challenge. I gave my pin full run, full trust, full respect - and gave him the opportunity to let his personality explode, and it has. Dogs always change with a different owner. Love this little guy to death. Take some time to get to know the dog and they will reward you.

You'll have a great tool, just set a goal to hunt.

[Newellknik]

This is my tenth pointer , a variety of breeds , this Griffon , ten now
Has certainly been an interesting trip. His Breeding is second to none
As far as NAVDHA and hunting lines go but he has issues .
PM me if you like , we can discuss this . Pretty old puppy , lot of money ,
And FYI ,there are lot of bad American dog breeders with pretty high
Self inflated profiles . Nothing like sending your problem to another
country . When I considered a Griff ,several breeders brought up the
Small gene pool as a positive today I can tell you I'm not that thrilled .
Griffons are very popular now no breeder is taking out the rotten apples .
These are very high maintanance dogs , I personally would not recommend
one for your first hunting dog . Something from a local breeder , so you can
Get help when you need it . I like Labs for first dogs , Lab owners shoot a
lot of Pheasants .

[PFKGSP]

Best breeders on who's opinion? Do your research and find out why you got bumped to the top of the list. This one has red flags all over it for me.

Like densa said you need to make sure the dog has been hunting already and had some work at that age. I have taken on dogs before or got them back in and around that age and they can be extremely sour on a lot of things if they haven't been worked.

If its a show dog that can't make it in the show ring chances are it won't hunt either. And if its a field dog that isn't going to make the grade, well, nuff said...You've just inherited the problem.

If you want to hunt with it make sure the breeder has a hunting background. Any breeder that is worth their salt can send you video of the dog working birds. They don't need to be polished at that age but they need to be started.

[elkhunter11]

I am curious as to why an 18 month old dog is up for sale. It seems a little odd that the breeder would keep it that long, and then put it up for sale.

[stob]

you just never know, but you either fish or cut bait... I took on a 2 year old deaf field springer as the 3rd owner from the breeder as the dog was an out-of-control and neither of the previous owners wanted her anymore... the first time I saw the dog was the day I picked it up ... and it was bouncing off the walls ...that said ... love and a little patience and 'Hope" became an amazing companion and field dog ... taught Hope and I sign language ... I used to train her at a nearby park and I used a whistle with no pea in it and I had the people there convinced that it was a silent dog whistle for use with deaf dogs ... Hope would catch the slightest hand signals from me and the ruse was on ... it took them 3 months to call me on it - LOL... keep us posted

[wwbirds]

Winch101 but looking at his profile it appears he has not visited the forum since 2015. I recall his saying WPG could be aggressive and also a hand full but the thing I remember most of all is he said no one should ever consider a WPG as their first pointing dog. A lot of good advice has been given in this thread but the best advice has been to proceed cautiously these dogs can be stubborn and soft (dont take corrections well) at the same time.

[hunterfisher]

Originally Posted by wwbirds

Winch101 but looking at his profile it appears he has not visited the forum since 2015. I recall his saying WPG could be aggressive and also a hand full but the thing I remember most of all is he said no one should ever consider a WPG as their first pointing dog. A lot of good advice has been given in this thread but the best advice has been to proceed cautiously these dogs can be stubborn and soft (dont take corrections well) at the same time.

I know Winch has put a lot of time and effort into his dogs and I know his griffin is a joy to hunt with. I've taken a lot of advice from him on dogs and have decided my first dog which is a Pyrenees. Lol not for hunting just around the acreage. That being said from experience he has with different breeds he talks well of the GSPs, Visla"s and Labs as well.
I'm picking up my GSP on Sunday 8 weeks old. Duke... can't wait. Thanks for all the advise Winch. Wherever you are

[Pixel Shooter]

Drives me crazy when people talk in definitive terms. I do believe you can have a great looking dog and a working dog. My male has his show CH and Masters hunting title. Granted different breed but don't have to always settle.

I have no experience in this upland breed . As Densa stated the cheapest part is buying the dog and a decision that you will live with for the next 12 plus years. Only a few breeders out there that I would buy sight unseen. In labs you see allot of younger dogs that won't make the doggie games but would make great hunting dogs or companions but not competitive. Not sure if this is the case. Others will train to resell as started or intermediate dogs but not for a discounted price. I too have heard not a great breed for first time dog owners. I feel the same way with chessies yet a phenomenal companion and hunting dog. Just caution to take time and make the right decision for you and family.

[Pixel Shooter]

Congrats on your new pup. Nothing like puppy breath. 😊

Originally Posted by hunterfisher

I know Winch has put a lot of time and effort into his dogs and I know his griffin is a joy to hunt with. I've taken a lot of advice from him on dogs and have decided my first dog which is a Pyrenees. Lol not for hunting just around the acreage. That being said from experience he has with different breeds he talks well of the GSPs, Visla"s and Labs as well.
I'm picking up my GSP on Sunday 8 weeks old. Duke... can't wait. Thanks for all the advise Winch. Wherever you are

[M.C. Gusto]

Got a pick of the dog? Hows the coat, tight? 2000 is a lot of money ...

[gopher]

lots of hunting dog breeders sell started and finished dogs this of course would make them not sold at 8 weeks old.

I wouldn't put much regard into hunt test / field trial dogs either a dog with 60 days a year hunting wild birds vs a field trial dog hunting planted birds is going to hunt much better for you in non rigged situations.

[angery jonn]

Originally Posted by densa44

Don't worry about what the breed is, there is more variance within a breed than between breeds.

The most expensive dog that you can get is a free dog, so be careful.

I have to say you are wrong here and I'm speaking from personal experience.

Look at the dog's pedigree, you can find it on the NAVHDA.org site read about the litter mates and the parents.

I'm sure I'll get flamed over this, but NAVHDA is over rated in my opinion, there is a whack load of phenomenal bird dogs that never have and never will be tested. It's a great club to learn training technics and to met like minded people. I think too many people put to much stock in the organization.

One thing to be aware of is Griffs have a show component and as the Bible says you can't serve 2 masters, it is either show or performance.

This isn't always the case, but as the breed gets more popular it's becoming more prevalent.

Has the dog run in a NAVHDA test? How did it do?

Has it hunted, it should have 2 seasons of experience?

Are there any health problems?

Good luck, BTW a good Griff will be right at home here in Alberta.

Not trying to fight with you, just don't agree.

[angery jonn]

Originally Posted by M.C. Gusto

Got a pick of the dog? Hows the coat, tight? 2000 is a lot of money ...

If it's a started dog $2000 is not a lot.

[angery jonn]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I am curious as to why an 18 month old dog is up for sale. It seems a little odd that the breeder would keep it that long, and then put it up for sale.

The dog maybe being sold as a started or finished dog. It could also be that it doesn't have the breeding qualities the breeder wants, ie coat length, height, weight. There could be lots of reasons that wouldn't effect it's hunting or house life.

[angery jonn]

Resmer, hopefully it all works out and you get a great dog! If something is throwing up a red flag for you then move on. I can tell you from my personal experience it's a great breed, great with the kids, great in the house and they love to hunt. The Giff's I've been around really need companionship though, they don't do well on there own (take this VERY seriously, lol).

They won't hold a candle in the wind to a GSP or a Pointer when it come to ranging, but as another member on here can back up, you'll still find missed birds behind those dogs with big wheels!

[densa44]

I don't know what is not to like. It tells an objective story of the dog you are looking at and all its relatives. It may not answer all your questions but so far, other than anecdotal evidence that is all we have.

This is far from being a puppy, there could and should be a NA test and perhaps a UT test.

I stick by my observation the the purchase price is the cheapest part of a dog. Just buy a sick one and watch the meter spin.

[angery jonn]

I would agree that the initial purchase of the dog is the cheapest part.

[gopher]

There's a lot more to good hunting dogs then ribbons and canned birds.

[elkhunter11]

For some reason, this makes me think of the WPG that showed up to take the NA test with us this past summer. The dog was 14 months old at the time, and it never found a single bird during the test, and appeared to have no interest at all in birds.. It supposedly came from a well known breeder in Montana. The test is not the end all and be all for judging a hunting dog, but after watching that dog during the test, I certainly wouldn't be choosing that dog for a hunting dog.

[gopher]

At least you know what a wpg is now...

Not that long ago you didn't.

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=195774

[angery jonn]

Had the dog ever been exposed to birds? I know of a couple dogs that came from great lines that were never exposed to birds and could really careless if a Rooster ran right over them. Maybe it was the type of birds being used, it's possible that he didn't associate the scent he was taking in to hunting. I've seen numerous dogs that hunt Roosters like crazy, yet could careless about Huns.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by angery jonn

Had the dog ever been exposed to birds? I know of a couple dogs that came from great lines that were never exposed to birds and could really careless if a Rooster ran right over them. Maybe it was the type of birds being used, it's possible that he didn't associate the scent he was taking in to hunting. I've seen numerous dogs that hunt Roosters like crazy, yet could careless about Huns.

I talked to the owners, they are not hunters, but they wanted a WPG, and for some reason, they wanted to put it through the test. They never did any preparation for the test, and never bothered to expose the dog to birds at all. Yet other people dropped by our club training days, with dogs around the same age that had zero exposure to birds,but every one of those dogs did show interest in birds. I would rather start outwith a dog that at least has shown interest in birds, if I wanted a hunting dog.

[Pixel Shooter]

not exactly sure what your getting at. simple fact is if you have sire and a bitch that run tests or shown proven, I believe you reduce the risk of buying a dud. doggie games aren't everything, and most of us play them because we are committed to getting the most out of our dogs, great to be around others who share in the same passion and lastly by time hunting season comes around, your dogs are in their prime day one, not end of season. I personally like buying pups out of repeat litters, again reduce my risk of ensuring I get what Im looking for.

I get that you can buy dogs that turn out excellent with little or no pedigree. I would argue that is not the norm. your money, your next 12+ yrs of a companion at your side.

Originally Posted by gopher

There's a lot more to good hunting dogs then ribbons and canned birds.

[angery jonn]

Originally Posted by Pixel Shooter

not exactly sure what your getting at. simple fact is if you have sire and a bitch that run tests or shown proven, I believe you reduce the risk of buying a dud. doggie games aren't everything, and most of us play them because we are committed to getting the most out of our dogs, great to be around others who share in the same passion and lastly by time hunting season comes around, your dogs are in their prime day one, not end of season. I personally like buying pups out of repeat litters, again reduce my risk of ensuring I get what Im looking for.

I get that you can buy dogs that turn out excellent with little or no pedigree. I would argue that is not the norm. your money, your next 12+ yrs of a companion at your side.

Don't think he's trying to cut the trials short or saying there irrelevant, I think he's saying there's more to a good pointing dog than what he scores in NAHVDA. I know for a fact that he takes pedigree very serious and always will, but not everyone wants to play the dizzied bird game. He prefers to hunt wild birds in wild places not ribbons. In a nut shell, I think that's what he was trying to get at.

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by densa44

Don't worry about what the breed is, there is more variance within a breed than between breeds.

The most expensive dog that you can get is a free dog, so be careful.

Look at the dog's pedigree, you can find it on the NAVHDA.org site read about the litter mates and the parents.

One thing to be aware of is Griffs have a show component and as the Bible says you can't serve 2 masters, it is either show or performance.

Has the dog run in a NAVHDA test? How did it do?

Has it hunted, it should have 2 seasons of experience?

Are there any health problems?

Good luck, BTW a good Griff will be right at home here in Alberta.

Where do you come up with this stuff? You are throwing opinion around like it's absolute and even referencing the Bible as a source of reference?

More variance within a breed than between breeds? Like a Doberman is more like a GSP because they both have short hair? I can assure you that any WPG has less variance to other WPGs when compared to say a Labrador or any other breed outside of the immediate bloodline.

Surprisingly the above makes more sense than "The most expensive dog that you can get is a free dog, so be careful." The costliest dogs come from breeders and are not free. Field Trail breeders trying to make super dogs and Show Breeders trying to make designer dogs are equally to blame. Health and behavioral issues that ruin breeds and cost owners thousands can almost always be traced back to unethical breeding. (BTW he isn't looking at a free dog)

"The Bible says you can't serve 2 masters, it is either show or performance."

Spoken like a true American with a silver tinted Labrador weighing 120 pounds and built like a quarter horse. But man can he hunt. I have always hunted dogs that conform to Champion Standards and mange to harvest all the birds I want. Nice dogs, like nice shotguns, should be a thing of beauty that can be enjoyed throughout the year, not working machines.

"Has the dog run in a NAVHDA test? How did it do? Has it hunted, it should have 2 seasons of experience?"

The vast majority of dogs and dog owners have never experienced NAVHDA. Nice pass time but hardly the definition of a hunting dog. Many kennels have generations of proven hunting dogs and years of waiting lists. They need not have their dogs jump through hoops to impress potential clients.

There are 100 reasons that a dog may be available. I am in contact with the breeder of my dogs and they have had mature dogs on several occasions. Owner becoming ill, moving, divorced, child with allergies etc.,etc.,

Breeders keep dogs as stock hoping for a trait that doesn't occur or find a more suitable animal to compliment their program. They also start dogs for people that change their minds and forfeit part of the deposit in hopes the breeder can find another buyer.

"Are there any health problems?
Good luck, BTW a good Griff will be right at home here in Alberta"

This part of your post actually makes sense and is good advice.

To the OP. If the breeder is trusted and says the dog shows potential, I would not let the age bother you. Military and Police dogs are often homed until they mature enough for serious training. I have taken on 2 older dogs in my life and both became great hunters. They were also much more loyal companions as they seemed to more appreciate their new life compared to a pup that was born into it. My favorite Lab was three when I got him and he seemed to appreciate every second he spent with me. Wouldn't win any field trials but always came back with the bird.

I have found that if you stick to the basic obedience for the first year and increase the training over the next two, a dog will learn on his own and become a more natural hunter. JMO, but dogs that are trained too young become robotic and are always looking for direction rather than figuring out for themselves where birds like to hide and their methods of escape. A well bred dog hunts with you, a well trained dog hunts for you. Let him learn to hunt and teach him what you expect from him.

It sounds like you have already done your homework and I look forward to seeing some pictures. I really would like a Griffon, Pudelpointer or GWP but can't see a way to transition from the Labs without leaving a dog home which I couldn't bring myself to do. Maybe in the next life.