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  #31  
Old 08-09-2020, 12:50 PM
LJalberta LJalberta is offline
 
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Originally Posted by marky_mark View Post
So he’s saying they are awesome
And he’s held them and used them
While stinky is saying they are junk
Because he looked at the specs on their website

Who do you believe?
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  #32  
Old 08-09-2020, 01:22 PM
sillyak sillyak is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote View Post
Fov at 1000 yards

399’ NL Pure 10x42
394’ Zeiss Victory SF 10x42
390’ Zeiss Victory SF 10x32
389’ Leica UV HD 10x42
387’ Leica UV HD 10x32
339’ NL Pure 12x42

No new swaro since 1999 when the EL’s were launched. And the leica zeiss top dogs around same time from recollection. Tells you how tough it is to improve things and how tech has been peaked for a long time. So anyone already with alpha glass, don’t sweat the new release too hard, your glass will be relevant and awesome forever.

It will be good to get in the game soon as many will offload some great glass for the new. Leica and Zeiss will sharpen their pencils and try to get a few more feet also, maybe improve some ergos, that’s all they can do. So expect some new models after the swaro release. They are all awesome. I really struggle with swaro pricing for what you get, have discovered swaro as over priced and it took lots of gear and dollars to see first hand, binos and spotters. It’s still good gear at highest levels, and clearly worth it to many. I sipped the look-aid more than once and likely will again for those 15x56 one day.

Try the Meopta Meostar 15x56 HD.
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  #33  
Old 08-09-2020, 01:48 PM
marky_mark marky_mark is offline
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Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote View Post
Lmao...ya that’s what I’m saying. Wait...overpriced junk haha
So what are you saying?
Other than, I bought these so it’s they are best thing ever created and nothing will ever compete with it...????
Sounds exactly like your talking about ballistics and bullets again
Same song and dance
I looked at these numbers online therefore it must be the best
You do realize that there are things that can’t be quantified solely based on numbers?
It’s just all “my socks are whiter than yours” all over again
The big 3 are what everyone else compares their products to
So when one of them says they are releasing something that’s going to raise the bar. It May be worth looking at first before passing your expert opinion
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  #34  
Old 08-10-2020, 06:49 AM
Stinky Coyote Stinky Coyote is offline
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Originally Posted by alpineguy View Post
If a person does their due diligence when researching binos they look at optical sites for their information not just hunting or brand sites. There are lots of reviews on binos out there written by highly qualified optic experts and the information they provide regarding "best quality" or "best bang for the buck" do not always include some of the expensive brands mentioned above.
If empowerment comes from spending the most money on optics that is your choice but does not necessarily mean they are the best quality.
Just my 2 cents
This and what 209 said (except the range finder inclusion part) is what I’ve said a couple times. If you can’t compare yourself then watch the bird/optical sites as they will get them all together and compare and review. I’ve stated that they will be a great bino, I’ve also stated I will be surprised if they can beat my dozen year old leicas as they haven’t changed a thing because the tech has peaked. Because that’s what they said back then too, swaro is the best lol, but it wasn’t. They sure charge for it like it is though. They eek out a few more feet of fov here and there, they change some ergos, coatings. That’s it.

And people will make a little video Saying they are awesome, and the kool-aid people say ‘see?!, this guy said they are awesome so they must be the best’ lol...when it’s not even part of a comparison...doh

What else I’m saying is wait a little bit and let them get compared to see where they shake out. I’m sure they’ve done their homework and and tweaked enough little things, but it is splitting hairs at the top. No new tech, except that little unicorn horn they’ve put on it for stability. Not new tech but maybe as applied to smaller handheld binos. That’s a thousand dollar touch that unicorn horn lol.
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  #35  
Old 08-10-2020, 07:40 AM
bobtodrick bobtodrick is offline
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Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote View Post
This and what 209 said (except the range finder inclusion part) is what I’ve said a couple times. If you can’t compare yourself then watch the bird/optical sites as they will get them all together and compare and review. I’ve stated that they will be a great bino, I’ve also stated I will be surprised if they can beat my dozen year old leicas as they haven’t changed a thing because the tech has peaked. Because that’s what they said back then too, swaro is the best lol, but it wasn’t. They sure charge for it like it is though. They eek out a few more feet of fov here and there, they change some ergos, coatings. That’s it.

And people will make a little video Saying they are awesome, and the kool-aid people say ‘see?!, this guy said they are awesome so they must be the best’ lol...when it’s not even part of a comparison...doh

What else I’m saying is wait a little bit and let them get compared to see where they shake out. I’m sure they’ve done their homework and and tweaked enough little things, but it is splitting hairs at the top. No new tech, except that little unicorn horn they’ve put on it for stability. Not new tech but maybe as applied to smaller handheld binos. That’s a thousand dollar touch that unicorn horn lol.
Sorry to say stinky, but you’re wrong.
As some one who has been involved in optics for 35+ years advancements in glass formulation, grinding technologies and coatings are ongoing.
Top camera lenses of today (their glass comes from the same companies as the bino’s use) easily outperform those of 10 years ago.
http://www.madehow.com/Volume-2/Camera-Lens.html
A new set of premium bino’s may not have enough improvement to spend the money to upgrade.... but if someone wants to upgrade, or it’s their first pair.... the glass today is better.
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  #36  
Old 08-10-2020, 08:36 AM
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209x50 209x50 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by bobtodrick View Post
Sorry to say stinky, but you’re wrong.
As some one who has been involved in optics for 35+ years advancements in glass formulation, grinding technologies and coatings are ongoing.
Top camera lenses of today (their glass comes from the same companies as the bino’s use) easily outperform those of 10 years ago.
http://www.madehow.com/Volume-2/Camera-Lens.html
A new set of premium bino’s may not have enough improvement to spend the money to upgrade.... but if someone wants to upgrade, or it’s their first pair.... the glass today is better.
The manufacture of perfect glass and the grinding technology peaked 7 or 8 years ago. Coatings are the only frontier left and it is amazing the difference that coatings make, even the order in which the coating are placed on the glass in the case of the Zeiss Victory there are 72 layers. Most coatings are designed to over come light refraction which is the biggest inhibition to light transfer.
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  #37  
Old 08-10-2020, 09:35 AM
bobtodrick bobtodrick is offline
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Originally Posted by 209x50 View Post
The manufacture of perfect glass and the grinding technology peaked 7 or 8 years ago. Coatings are the only frontier left and it is amazing the difference that coatings make, even the order in which the coating are placed on the glass in the case of the Zeiss Victory there are 72 layers. Most coatings are designed to over come light refraction which is the biggest inhibition to light transfer.
Plus glass makers are developing more exotic types of flourite mixes to make their HD lenses.
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  #38  
Old 08-10-2020, 10:22 AM
Stinky Coyote Stinky Coyote is offline
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Splitting hairs, a lot of money spent doing it too.😉

A fair bit of butt hurt with team green too.😁

Well past what the eye itself can do with the glass.
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  #39  
Old 08-10-2020, 10:23 AM
sillyak sillyak is offline
 
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Originally Posted by bobtodrick View Post
Plus glass makers are developing more exotic types of flourite mixes to make their HD lenses.
Can you tell me what glass has come out in recent years that beats FPL-53?
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  #40  
Old 08-10-2020, 10:36 AM
sillyak sillyak is offline
 
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I'll add: FPL 53 has been available for 20 years, as far as know the only thing that can give better #s is pure Fluorite, which has benefited from new coating technology in the last 15 years, but has itself been available for 30 years in consumer optics.

Coating technology is the only thing that has really changed in the last 20 years, and really the only area for future development in consumer optics. Unless some sort of rapid development happens to blow current technology away.

Current top notch HD glass has been available for 20 years. (FPL 53 and equivilants). Grinding and Polishing technology hasn't changed. Look at the prices for a Zeiss Abbe Ortho II telescope eyepiece. They are extremely simple design telescope eyepieces made in the 90s that command absolutely ridiculous prices. Why? Because the polish on them is simply exceptional, leading to extremely low scatter. They haven't been bested yet, and they were made 25 years ago.

I'll add that my observations are for the absolute top of the market optics. Cheaper optics have benefited big time in the last 10 years from technology that the top dogs were bringing to the market 20 years ago.

I'm not saying Stinky is 100% right, coatings have evolved continuously. However, glass, design, grinding and polishing technology has not changed.
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  #41  
Old 08-10-2020, 12:44 PM
Stinky Coyote Stinky Coyote is offline
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Hang in there guys, hunting season is almost here. Havin a little fun with team green.

Funny that the swaro stuff is the same color as money.
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  #42  
Old 08-10-2020, 12:49 PM
bobtodrick bobtodrick is offline
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Originally Posted by sillyak View Post
I'll add: FPL 53 has been available for 20 years, as far as know the only thing that can give better #s is pure Fluorite, which has benefited from new coating technology in the last 15 years, but has itself been available for 30 years in consumer optics.

Coating technology is the only thing that has really changed in the last 20 years, and really the only area for future development in consumer optics. Unless some sort of rapid development happens to blow current technology away.

Current top notch HD glass has been available for 20 years. (FPL 53 and equivilants). Grinding and Polishing technology hasn't changed. Look at the prices for a Zeiss Abbe Ortho II telescope eyepiece. They are extremely simple design telescope eyepieces made in the 90s that command absolutely ridiculous prices. Why? Because the polish on them is simply exceptional, leading to extremely low scatter. They haven't been bested yet, and they were made 25 years ago.

I'll add that my observations are for the absolute top of the market optics. Cheaper optics have benefited big time in the last 10 years from technology that the top dogs were bringing to the market 20 years ago.

I'm not saying Stinky is 100% right, coatings have evolved continuously. However, glass, design, grinding and polishing technology has not changed.
Admittedly I come from a camera lens background...but Sony claims (as of last year) that they are making strides in optical production now. https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/techno...ories/GMaster/
It, not just he lenses we are talking about here, but the prisms as well...and modern CNC technology has improved the tolerances they are able to manufacture these. As I've stated, it may definitely not be such that you even see a difference, let alone want to upgrade. But to say that the new Swaro NL will not be as good as the ten year old Leica's (and I have used Leica cameras and lenses since the 70's) is just downright false.
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  #43  
Old 08-10-2020, 01:19 PM
sillyak sillyak is offline
 
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Originally Posted by bobtodrick View Post
Admittedly I come from a camera lens background...but Sony claims (as of last year) that they are making strides in optical production now. https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/techno...ories/GMaster/
It, not just he lenses we are talking about here, but the prisms as well...and modern CNC technology has improved the tolerances they are able to manufacture these. As I've stated, it may definitely not be such that you even see a difference, let alone want to upgrade. But to say that the new Swaro NL will not be as good as the ten year old Leica's (and I have used Leica cameras and lenses since the 70's) is just downright false.

I'd agree with that last statement for sure. The article you linked touched on something as well. The glass can be the same, and it's not like the design hasn't been thought of before, but better coatings and more precision in manufacturing can allow the engineers to push a design further than they could have previously. Which can lead to performance improvements even if the glass blank is 20 year old tech.
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  #44  
Old 08-10-2020, 03:38 PM
Stinky Coyote Stinky Coyote is offline
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forgive my memory, but are we not already past what the eye can do with this top glass?

and like i said before, i'll be surprised if any swaro, even this brand new one, can run with my dozen year old leicas, i'm sure i'll get them side by side at some point, i won't be in a big rush, looks like i'd have to wait for 32's anyway since so far only 42's offered, and ya...over a $1000.00 bucks for a piece of plastic to poke you in the forehead sounds like a fair deal
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  #45  
Old 08-10-2020, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Crabby cat View Post
https://youtu.be/WnxFs8VDjBI Hopefully I got the link to you tube right. There is a review of the new Swarovski NL pure to the EL. It is presented by Western Hunter.
I just watched the video. No question a larger field of view is nice, but I won’t give up my 8.5x42 EL Range for the NL Pure. I can’t stress how much better having an integrated rangefinder is. I’ll never go back to separate bino and rangefinder regardless of how big the FOV is or if there’s a forehead rest.
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  #46  
Old 08-10-2020, 08:15 PM
marky_mark marky_mark is offline
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I just watched the video. No question a larger field of view is nice, but I won’t give up my 8.5x42 EL Range for the NL Pure. I can’t stress how much better having an integrated rangefinder is. I’ll never go back to separate bino and rangefinder regardless of how big the FOV is or if there’s a forehead rest.
I agree
I have the leicas and the ZEISS rf binos and would never go back
I’d give the definite edge in optics to the ZEISS
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  #47  
Old 08-10-2020, 11:33 PM
Stinky Coyote Stinky Coyote is offline
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I can’t stress how much better it is trying to find sheep for hours on end, at distant mountainsides, in every condition imaginable. The rf bino’s are not even in the same ballpark as the alpha class bins for this work. So there’s that opinion.

No argument they are great for general hunting, a bit of glassing here and there, few minutes at a time, check that field, check that edge, hit the brakes I think I saw something up that cut line...where just about any bino will do.😉

But when you need to sit down, tear some countryside apart and make animals appear...ya, there’s quite a difference. Maybe the newer rf bins have made some gains. When I compared there’s no comparison. If you didn’t compare you thought you were alright and living large with the rf bins. Didn’t seem to find shat, happy af doing it though haha. It was humbling to see the difference, and expensive, for sale, take the hit, then do it right the 2nd or 3rd time.

Last edited by Stinky Coyote; 08-10-2020 at 11:48 PM.
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  #48  
Old 08-10-2020, 11:40 PM
Stinky Coyote Stinky Coyote is offline
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People so eager to jump on this bandwagon...there is no bandwagon. That’s all I’m saying. This NL Pure is not bandwagon worthy, nothing swaro is. Swaro people will say so without even reading a single thing or trying them lol. It’s the swaro way. So settle down team green. If swaro finally made it to Leica Zeiss levels it’s about time. 😂

That’s as far as it’s gonna go. And for more moula to boot. Made with fairy dust and unicorn tears apparently.

Start saving boys, when the nl pure range comes out for $7k I’m sure people will go nuts again.

Last edited by Stinky Coyote; 08-10-2020 at 11:51 PM.
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  #49  
Old 08-11-2020, 01:46 AM
crazy_davey crazy_davey is offline
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The worst thing COVID did was bring Stinky Coyote back to AO.

Same old nonsense... Pretend expert.
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  #50  
Old 08-11-2020, 07:12 AM
marky_mark marky_mark is offline
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I can’t stress how much better it is trying to find sheep for hours on end, at distant mountainsides, in every condition imaginable. The rf bino’s are not even in the same ballpark as the alpha class bins for this work. So there’s that opinion.

No argument they are great for general hunting, a bit of glassing here and there, few minutes at a time, check that field, check that edge, hit the brakes I think I saw something up that cut line...where just about any bino will do.😉

But when you need to sit down, tear some countryside apart and make animals appear...ya, there’s quite a difference. Maybe the newer rf bins have made some gains. When I compared there’s no comparison. If you didn’t compare you thought you were alright and living large with the rf bins. Didn’t seem to find shat, happy af doing it though haha. It was humbling to see the difference, and expensive, for sale, take the hit, then do it right the 2nd or 3rd time.
Your so far out to lunch that its not even funny

Ill bet you as much as you want that a mexican with a pair of bushnells will spot more desert bighorns than you will with your decade olds, middle of the road even back then leicas

Last edited by marky_mark; 08-11-2020 at 07:29 AM.
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  #51  
Old 08-11-2020, 08:16 AM
Stinky Coyote Stinky Coyote is offline
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Playing with team green is a slam dunk lol. The opener is almost here but there’s still a little time to talk about how amazing Swarovski optics are and get those warm and fuzzies.

Yee nothin but a mere peasants. It’s the best there is, the best there was, the best there ever will be. Swarovski to the death.😂 #opticssnobs #butthurt #deserved

Last edited by Stinky Coyote; 08-11-2020 at 08:37 AM.
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  #52  
Old 08-11-2020, 08:43 AM
Stinky Coyote Stinky Coyote is offline
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Originally Posted by crazy_davey View Post
The worst thing COVID did was bring Stinky Coyote back to AO.

Same old nonsense... Pretend expert.
This is the best thread on this page, you're welcome.

And of course i haven't spent any time behind lots of swaro product.

This is the Swaro mystic, pot calling the kettle here. Swaro people so in love with the gear they will just spout off about how it's the best, period. Without ever even looking through anything else lol, their buddy or dad or friend tells them it's the best and so i guess it must be right? Who's the pretend experts? More of those on Team Green than anywhere.

I'm not brand loyal to much at all, maybe leupold scopes but not in guns, optics, vehicles, ultralight backpack gear, none of it. My experience comes from that. Bottom line, Swaro is overpriced hot air. It's good gear, have said that, it's rarely the best, yet it's priced like it's miles better. That's Swaro bottom line. I know it hurts. Hugs

These are tough times, save your money lol, wait till the Swaro bandwagon infection on a new release dies down before opening those wallets haha.

Last edited by Stinky Coyote; 08-11-2020 at 08:51 AM.
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  #53  
Old 08-11-2020, 09:40 AM
Mr. Twister Mr. Twister is offline
 
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I was just on a hunt with a guide that has been guiding for the last 10 years. We talked about different things including optics. He's looked through most if not all binos. Its his job not just a hobby, so I do value his opinion when he runs the EL-10x42. Whether or not they are deemed the best by anyone here doesn't really matter. I'm just saying what the guide that hunts for a living uses by choice.
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  #54  
Old 08-11-2020, 10:09 AM
marky_mark marky_mark is offline
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Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote View Post
This is the best thread on this page, you're welcome.

And of course i haven't spent any time behind lots of swaro product.

This is the Swaro mystic, pot calling the kettle here. Swaro people so in love with the gear they will just spout off about how it's the best, period. Without ever even looking through anything else lol, their buddy or dad or friend tells them it's the best and so i guess it must be right? Who's the pretend experts? More of those on Team Green than anywhere.

I'm not brand loyal to much at all, maybe leupold scopes but not in guns, optics, vehicles, ultralight backpack gear, none of it. My experience comes from that. Bottom line, Swaro is overpriced hot air. It's good gear, have said that, it's rarely the best, yet it's priced like it's miles better. That's Swaro bottom line. I know it hurts. Hugs

These are tough times, save your money lol, wait till the Swaro bandwagon infection on a new release dies down before opening those wallets haha.
Did you vote for Trudeau in the last couple elections?
Typical liberal mentality
Mine is the best, if you don’t agree with me, I’m going to Bash you
Grow up
Unless you have anything relevant to say, which you don’t because your gear is 12 years old
Keep you squeaker filled experiences and opinions to yourself
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  #55  
Old 08-11-2020, 11:29 AM
trigger7mm trigger7mm is offline
 
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So how about this question guys....if you could only own one pair of binos for the rest of your life, cost not being an issue what so ever, what would be?
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  #56  
Old 08-11-2020, 11:29 AM
Stinky Coyote Stinky Coyote is offline
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I was just on a hunt with a guide that has been guiding for the last 10 years. We talked about different things including optics. He's looked through most if not all binos. Its his job not just a hobby, so I do value his opinion when he runs the EL-10x42. Whether or not they are deemed the best by anyone here doesn't really matter. I'm just saying what the guide that hunts for a living uses by choice.
what's that outfitter/guide south of the border does sheep hunts, John Porter well over 100 rams, uses a leupold spotter 12-40x, Swaro guys must cringe every time they see him in that thing and he's in it a lot lol, and as markymark said, the mexican sheep guides and what they find with their cheap bushnells, in areas i already know i can get away with just about anything too, lots to be said for the nut behind wheel, when you know your quarry and the land you've been hunting for a long time you get pretty quick regardless of the glass, when you're dissecting new country top glass with hours and hours of comfort make a difference, with this argument we wouldn't need any of these options

not bashing your precious green gear markymark, just realist views, get it out of the clouds where it doesn't belong anyway, don't drink swaro kool-aid folks, it's good gear, just not unicorn tears and fairy dust as often made out to be, you can take team greens advice and you'll do alright, but maybe try a few others out before you take that extra green hit in the wallet

definitely conservative voter here, because that matters in your optics choices

Last edited by Stinky Coyote; 08-11-2020 at 11:39 AM.
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  #57  
Old 08-11-2020, 11:33 AM
marky_mark marky_mark is offline
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So how about this question guys....if you could only own one pair of binos for the rest of your life, cost not being an issue what so ever, what would be?
At the moment the new ZEISS rf binos
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  #58  
Old 08-11-2020, 11:37 AM
Stinky Coyote Stinky Coyote is offline
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So how about this question guys....if you could only own one pair of binos for the rest of your life, cost not being an issue what so ever, what would be?
got mine, leica ultra-vid hd 10x32

max versatility do all for me but i have varying things i do from sheep in the mountains to bowhunting, size/weight issue, while also needing alpha image quality/comfort to go hours on end off tripods to find needles in haystacks in all conditions while in the mountains

better 32's may come along one day, likely not enough better to justify the price of upgrade, set for life with these little pukers, smile every time they hit the eyes, if i was more truck/horse oriented, not as diverse in the hunting types/conditions, fat 42's likely be ok too
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  #59  
Old 08-11-2020, 01:39 PM
Blockcaver Blockcaver is offline
 
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Swarovison EL 10x42s and Leica Ultravid 8x32pre-HD do it for me. I wouldn't have one pair of boots, one jacket or one pair of pants to cover all my bowhunting needs either.
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  #60  
Old 08-11-2020, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote View Post
I can’t stress how much better it is trying to find sheep for hours on end, at distant mountainsides, in every condition imaginable. The rf bino’s are not even in the same ballpark as the alpha class bins for this work. So there’s that opinion.

No argument they are great for general hunting, a bit of glassing here and there, few minutes at a time, check that field, check that edge, hit the brakes I think I saw something up that cut line...where just about any bino will do.😉

But when you need to sit down, tear some countryside apart and make animals appear...ya, there’s quite a difference. Maybe the newer rf bins have made some gains. When I compared there’s no comparison. If you didn’t compare you thought you were alright and living large with the rf bins. Didn’t seem to find shat, happy af doing it though haha. It was humbling to see the difference, and expensive, for sale, take the hit, then do it right the 2nd or 3rd time.
All I'm going to say is the Zeiss Victory Range Finder binoculars utilizes the best glass Zeiss makes. There isn't another step up in the Zeiss line.
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