Thunder lake is nasty!!!

[FISHBATTEREDBEER]

We camped there this weekend,the water is gross already but there was 1000's of minnows around the dock.6 people fishing on the dock,zero bites.

[Talking moose]

Sticklebacks most likely.

[3blade]

Last time I caught a fish there was over ten years ago. Past the fish holding point in the eutrophication process iirc, what the bio said

[liar]

the overflow over the weir has been flowing for over four weeks now . i was hoping it would " flush " the lake out . hopefully the higher water will allow the fish population to come back . if the water isnt good now , it probably wont get better over the summer . too bad .

[Bushleague]

Originally Posted by 3blade

Last time I caught a fish there was over ten years ago. Past the fish holding point in the eutrophication process iirc, what the bio said

Thunder Lake has always been a little nasty, but it always bounced back in the past. I know Clear Lake just a small distance north of there experienced some drastic changes in water condition when they started fracking in the area, which would have been about the same time frame as Thunder lake started going bad.

Yes, I know its not supposed to be able to happen, but Clear lake got pretty slough like very quickly, I haven't been back since so not sure if it ever recovered either.

[DiabeticKripple]

Originally Posted by Bushleague

Thunder Lake has always been a little nasty, but it always bounced back in the past. I know Clear Lake just a small distance north of there experienced some drastic changes in water condition when they started fracking in the area, which would have been about the same time frame as Thunder lake started going bad.

Yes, I know its not supposed to be able to happen, but Clear lake got pretty slough like very quickly, I haven't been back since so not sure if it ever recovered either.

I'm just curious as to what makes you think fracking changed the water?

[FlyTheory]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

I'm just curious as to what makes you think fracking changed the water?

It's probably not just fracking. But disturbing the ground will expose more nutrients to drain into the basin. But agriculture run off is the most prominent vector of eutrophication my dudes.

[Bushleague]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

I'm just curious as to what makes you think fracking changed the water?

Clear Lake was spring fed, despite the muddy banks and the peat bottom the water was always super clear. Interesting lake to fish, with the clear water and abundant feed those were the following-est pike I've ever seen. After the fracking it turned into a slough. I think something disturbed the springs that fed it, local opinion blames the fracking. Not sure what happened to Thunder, as I don't know it had any springs feeding it.

[wildwoods]

Pretty sure Thunder winter killed a bunch of years ago. I washed lures there for a few hrs once before realizing it lol. That was frustrating

[FISHBATTEREDBEER]

Originally Posted by Bushleague

Clear Lake was spring fed, despite the muddy banks and the peat bottom the water was always super clear. Interesting lake to fish, with the clear water and abundant feed those were the following-est pike I've ever seen. After the fracking it turned into a slough. I think something disturbed the springs that fed it, local opinion blames the fracking. Not sure what happened to Thunder, as I don't know it had any springs feeding it.

Yes the fracking and drilling is what destroyed Clear Lake,the idiots tapped into the spring that fed the lake .I was working in the area when the drilling was going on and heard this first hand from our inspector.The drilling process takes thousands of gallons to complete . The fracking was icing on the cake,it causes major disruption below the ground,they hydraulically split seams to force gas/oil to the surface.This causes major problems for under ground water sources. We had a similar thing happen in Wabasca,we were tying in over 100 wells that died off.We were turning them into disposal wellls for salt water.After 8 months of doing this they finally flooded the oil zones below ground and eventually flooded their own plant....the work was done immediately!

In the area around clear lake and Fort Assiniboine they target coal bed methane,this is very bad for fresh water sources below the ground.

Thunder lake has multiple problems and use to produce very nice fish 20+ yrs ago.Cabin owners in the area were complaining about the lack of sandy beach front so they left the dam open for yrs.There is farm land with a lot of fertilizing going on that run into the lake.Older cabins have a grandfather septic system and I guarantee many are leaking and lots of the owners also fertilze a lot.The combination of fertilizer/septic pollution and low water levels due to the open dam have caused the demise of Thunder...like many other AB lakes.What happens is the fertilizer/septic cause huge plumes of weeds/plants,the low water levels also mean warmer water is ideal too.In the winter the plant live decays,this process takes a lot of oxygen in return kills the fish.This is a man made problem!! It doesn't help that there aren't any constant streams feeding into the lake.

[Bushleague]

Originally Posted by FISHBATTEREDBEER

Yes the fracking and drilling is what destroyed Clear Lake,the idiots tapped into the spring that fed the lake .I was working in the area when the drilling was going on and heard this first hand from our inspector.The drilling process takes thousands of gallons to complete . The fracking was icing on the cake,it causes major disruption below the ground,they hydraulically split seams to force gas/oil to the surface.This causes major problems for under ground water sources. We had a similar thing happen in Wabasca,we were tying in over 100 wells that died off.We were turning them into disposal wellls for salt water.After 8 months of doing this they finally flooded the oil zones below ground and eventually flooded their own plant....the work was done immediately!

In the area around clear lake and Fort Assiniboine they target coal bed methane,this is very bad for fresh water sources below the ground.

Thunder lake has multiple problems and use to produce very nice fish 20+ yrs ago.Cabin owners in the area were complaining about the lack of sandy beach front so they left the dam open for yrs.There is farm land with a lot of fertilizing going on that run into the lake.Older cabins have a grandfather septic system and I guarantee many are leaking and lots of the owners also fertilze a lot.The combination of fertilizer/septic pollution and low water levels due to the open dam have caused the demise of Thunder...like many other AB lakes.What happens is the fertilizer/septic cause huge plumes of weeds/plants,the low water levels also mean warmer water is ideal too.In the winter the plant live decays,this process takes a lot of oxygen in return kills the fish.This is a man made problem!! It doesn't help that there aren't any constant streams feeding into the lake.

A shame about both those lakes for sure, I had lots of family in the area and fished both of them as a kid. Even though I remember getting bigger fish out of Thunder, Clear Lake was a unique fishing experience and I always liked going there. You'd find a break in the lily pads and cast a spoon or spinnerbait into it, quite often there'd be 3 or 4 decent pike following it at once. In the clear water they always knew the lure couldn't get away and were in no hurry to hit it, I think that's where I learned just about every trick I know for coaxing a pike to strike. I can remember trips where we probably caught 90% of our fish on the figure 8 right at the boat side. Loved that lake!

[liar]

[QUOTE=FISHBATTEREDBEER;3546248]Yes the fracking and drilling is what destroyed Clear Lake,the idiots tapped into the spring that fed the lake .I was working in the area when the drilling was going on and heard this first hand from our inspector.The drilling process takes thousands of gallons to complete . The fracking was icing on the cake,it causes major disruption below the ground,they hydraulically split seams to force gas/oil to the surface.This causes major problems for under ground water sources. We had a similar thing happen in Wabasca,we were tying in over 100 wells that died off.We were turning them into disposal wellls for salt water.After 8 months of doing this they finally flooded the oil zones below ground and eventually flooded their own plant....the work was done immediately!

In the area around clear lake and Fort Assiniboine they target coal bed methane,this is very bad for fresh water sources below the ground.

fracking around clear and thunder lake ?
you may want to check your source of info . the coal seam is 1000 meters below surface and hydraulically pressured to +/- 9000 kpa . not sure how this affects fresh ground water sources .

[ROA]

Story I heard on clear is there is a well near by that went from producing normal salt water and oil (which it had done for years) to producing fresh water. An aquifer must have opened up (may or may not be caused by man) and the water table and lake drained down into the earth so deep it made it to the oil formation. The change in the oil well happened over the matter of days.

[liar]

you know what , i've been around long enough to never say " thats impossible "
to just about anything ,but i have never heard of it . i do have access to a lot of info and you now have aroused my curiosity . not sure where you heard this but if you gave me the location of this well it would quicken the search .

[FISHBATTEREDBEER]

http://frack-off.org.uk/coal-bed-met...-of-shale-gas/



Its crazy to say that the oil companies aren't responsible for the demise of Clear Lake.Everything went to chit immediately during and soon after their activity in the area.I frequented this lake from 1981-2000 and the water was high and crystal clear.Now the water has receded atleast 50' since 2009 ish

[liar]

Originally Posted by FISHBATTEREDBEER

http://frack-off.org.uk/coal-bed-met...-of-shale-gas/

good read . org.uk is not near thunder lake . i can assure you that none of the cbm wells around thunder and clear lake were fraced .

[pikeman06]

Yup let's get our facts straight here before we start a fight over a couple sloughs. Can't have farmers and oil patch guys fighting in alberta. We all do what we got do to make a living and follow regulations and environmental protocol. We are still learning from our mistakes and lessoning our impact and footprint on the environment. The population didn't drop because of a strong year class being fished right out as they reached spawning size followed by zero recruitment for years per chance?

[FISHBATTEREDBEER]

Originally Posted by liar

good read . org.uk is not near thunder lake . i can assure you that none of the cbm wells around thunder and clear lake were fraced .

-the fracking was around Clear LK and the Fort Assiniboine area,thunder was multi human errors

-the link is to show how the process works.

[liar]

your right , i'm wrong . i'm going for a ride . later .

[DiabeticKripple]

Originally Posted by FISHBATTEREDBEER

Yes the fracking and drilling is what destroyed Clear Lake,the idiots tapped into the spring that fed the lake .I was working in the area when the drilling was going on and heard this first hand from our inspector.The drilling process takes thousands of gallons to complete . The fracking was icing on the cake,it causes major disruption below the ground,they hydraulically split seams to force gas/oil to the surface.This causes major problems for under ground water sources. We had a similar thing happen in Wabasca,we were tying in over 100 wells that died off.We were turning them into disposal wellls for salt water.After 8 months of doing this they finally flooded the oil zones below ground and eventually flooded their own plant....the work was done immediately!

In the area around clear lake and Fort Assiniboine they target coal bed methane,this is very bad for fresh water sources below the ground.

fracking around clear and thunder lake ?
you may want to check your source of info . the coal seam is 1000 meters below surface and hydraulically pressured to +/- 9000 kpa . not sure how this affects fresh ground water sources .

Coal bed methane in southern AB is mostly fracked with pure nitrogen. If there is a slurry frac there will not be any chemicals in the water. In northern AB the coal bed is so deep that there is no chance of any water contamination from fracking, unless an accident (casing issues or surface spills) happens.

Fracking doesn't force oil and gas to the surface. It creates a permeable pathway for the oil and gas to flow into the well, so formations produce.

Originally Posted by ROA

Story I heard on clear is there is a well near by that went from producing normal salt water and oil (which it had done for years) to producing fresh water. An aquifer must have opened up (may or may not be caused by man) and the water table and lake drained down into the earth so deep it made it to the oil formation. The change in the oil well happened over the matter of days.

There are many different layers of impermeable rock and there is no way for an aquifer to "drain" into the oil formation. If there was communication, the oil would come to surface as it is pressured higher than the hydrostatic pressure that water provides.


I think the only way that oil and gas could have contributed to the demise of the lake, is either a negligent operator not noticing a leak, or as posted the devegtation of the area creates more runoff.

Sorry for the big detail OP.

[FISHBATTEREDBEER]

We were building coal bed methane facilities,there was a lot of drilling in the area,I specifically remember being held up for work through the fort hills by frack crews and their fleet on multiple morning.Is it possible the oil comps were also drilling for gas/oil? I think so ,I seen the frac crews many times.

[Talking moose]

Alberta has been losing its lakes and sloughs since the last ice age receded. After the next ice age recedes, we will be left with many new lakes and sloughs. Just have to wait it out. Lots of the lakes and sloughs in the ashmont area are in rough shape too. I don't believe they were ever ment to last forever.

[ROA]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

Coal bed methane in southern AB is mostly fracked with pure nitrogen. If there is a slurry frac there will not be any chemicals in the water. In northern AB the coal bed is so deep that there is no chance of any water contamination from fracking, unless an accident (casing issues or surface spills) happens.

Fracking doesn't force oil and gas to the surface. It creates a permeable pathway for the oil and gas to flow into the well, so formations produce.



There are many different layers of impermeable rock and there is no way for an aquifer to "drain" into the oil formation. If there was communication, the oil would come to surface as it is pressured higher than the hydrostatic pressure that water provides.


I think the only way that oil and gas could have contributed to the demise of the lake, is either a negligent operator not noticing a leak, or as posted the devegtation of the area creates more runoff.

Sorry for the big detail OP.

Sorry but you really don't know very much about wells. I can put some wells on vacuum by putting water down the tubing or casing then down to the formation it flowes all on its own. This isn't some theory I have actually done it many times on producers not to mention injectors.
Could it happen naturally in the rock? Possibly. Also and more likely it could happen on the well casing if it were to fail at a point in the ground where an aquifer crosses.


Anyways it's all a bunch of stories as to why the lake level dropped and the lake turned from clear spring fed lake to a dried up stink hole

[DiabeticKripple]

Originally Posted by ROA

Sorry but you really don't know very much about wells. I can put some wells on vacuum by putting water down the tubing or casing then down to the formation it flowes all on its own. This isn't some theory I have actually done it many times on producers not to mention injectors.
Could it happen naturally in the rock? Possibly. Also and more likely it could happen on the well casing if it were to fail at a point in the ground where an aquifer crosses.


Anyways it's all a bunch of stories as to why the lake level dropped and the lake turned from clear spring fed lake to a dried up stink hole

Yes some formations are under pressured and will take water on a vacuum. I have also done work on a few injectors, one would take fluid at over 400L/min with no wellhead pressure.

im just trying to say that it VERY unlikely that the water is communicating with the oil formations.

[SNAPFisher]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Alberta has been losing its lakes and sloughs since the last ice age receded. After the next ice age recedes, we will be left with many new lakes and sloughs. Just have to wait it out. Lots of the lakes and sloughs in the ashmont area are in rough shape too. I don't believe they were ever ment to last forever.

Yep!

Or, flood like years that we seen in the 80's. My dad was telling me about the Beaver River going over its banks and washing out some bridges. Where I had the cabin at Upper Mann, one of the original cabin owners talked about the levels way lower than they are now in the later 70s. After a very wet year the next year they were hauling dead trees out of the lake with their boats. Ever since that time, it continues to drop in level getting worse for fish until summer / winter kill. The cycle will repeat and it is just a matter of when.

[liar]

Originally Posted by ROA

Story I heard on clear is there is a well near by that went from producing normal salt water and oil (which it had done for years) to producing fresh water. An aquifer must have opened up (may or may not be caused by man) and the water table and lake drained down into the earth so deep it made it to the oil formation. The change in the oil well happened over the matter of days.

i did a search on all the well bores within a three mile radius around clear lake . not one of them has ever had any oil production allocated to them . i'm leaning towards " urban legend " on the oil to fresh water well . if you can get me a location i would be very interested in looking it up .

[FISHBATTEREDBEER]

Originally Posted by liar

i did a search on all the well bores within a three mile radius around clear lake . not one of them has ever had any oil production allocated to them . i'm leaning towards " urban legend " on the oil to fresh water well . if you can get me a location i would be very interested in looking it up .

Is there an Alberta map showing these well locations? A link would be nice.Anyone who knows a little bit about the drilling process can tell you that horizontal drilling gives the ability to go in any direction for great distances.I was working in the area at the time Clear Lake was affected,this is not a coincidence I say.Our inspector told us that the natural spring was compromised to supply water for drilling,why would he lie?

[liar]

the data base i used is called " abadata 2" .it pulls info from all kinds of sources including the ercb . every well bore in alberta is on it and all info that the ercb has is available , including oil , water and gas production for the life of the well . i'm not sure what your inspector was talking about. i'm sure he did not lie but maybe he had bad info , or misunderstood , or he may be correct . was this a pipeline inspector ?

[FISHBATTEREDBEER]

Originally Posted by liar

the data base i used is called " abadata 2" .it pulls info from all kinds of sources including the ercb . every well bore in alberta is on it and all info that the ercb has is available , including oil , water and gas production for the life of the well . i'm not sure what your inspector was talking about. i'm sure he did not lie but maybe he had bad info , or misunderstood , or he may be correct . was this a pipeline inspector ?

No he was in charge of construction of the leases and was in constant contact with all aspects of this.he knew exactly which lease we were moving to next which ones were coming up and where the rigs were moving to.All our work was building multi pad leases for methane but there was oil/gas drilling as well.IT's pretty obvious something happened to the spring feeding Clear,I went there almost every year since 1981 and seen it dry up during and soon after the drilling occurred.
The water in that lake looked like tap water,one of very few in AB.

[Isopod]

Not saying that fracking doesn't cause problems, but the drop in water levels in Alberta is almost entirely due to climate. Too many dry winters, too many hot summers. It all adds up to reduce water levels, and once they are down the water warms up more and therefore evaporates more, and that's a hard cycle to break. Beaverhill Lake in the late 1980s was a 200 square kilometer birder's paradise, now it has dried up completely. Sandy Lake northwest of Edmonton was a nice place to swim in the 1980s, now it is a cattail choked slough. Miquelon Lake has gone from a great swimming location to a big slough where swimming is no longer recommended. Hastings Lake dropped about 8 feet during the dry years and has gone from a good place to fish to having no fish. Heck, even in Elk Island Park, where there is no industrial activity, Astotin Lake has dropped so much that the Boardwalk Trail over a wetland is now largely over dry land, and the Tawayik Lake trail used to be impassible in summer because it went through a wetland at The Narrows, but a few weeks ago I was there and that part of the trail is now high and dry, even in Spring.