Precision rifles

[PFKGSP]

Just wondering what everyone's thoughts are on the precision rifles out there.
I have been thinking about something along these lines. Are the Rugers, Mossberg's, Savage's worthwhile or should you just step up to an AI or Barrett.
I would only be looking at a small caliber like a 6.5 or even .223 size. Don't want a .338.

[Groundhogger]

There are people out there WAY, WAY better equipped to answer this question than I am, but I think a couple of considerations might be budget and expectations. My personal experience with my Savage 10 (.223) shooting hand loads is that I am the weak link in the equation. I have pulled-off a few astonishingly small groups (in my opinion ) and that's a factory gun. I have considered looking into whether or not I could put a GRS stock on it, or, one of the aluminum chassis stocks...but to what end? I'm sure there is a benefit, but I could never imagine how a $1,000 upgrade would improve my groups more than more practice would. In fact, I don't think it could.

My most recent rifle purchase was an Anschutz from Nordic Marksman in NS. While poking around their site, I did notice this little gem and honestly...I think it would be an amazing .223 to own/shoot; http://www.nordicmarksman.com/1771-D-GRS-223-REM.html Some people need to feel more involved in their "build" and wouldn't be satisfied unless the barrel/stock/trigger/rail all came from different corners of the globe. Others want the best factory-built option they can get. The only guys I know who "build" their own believe the Savage actions are the most affordable, and easiest to work with.

Hope this helps...but probably not. lol

[3blade]

a) do you reload?
b) do you have a farm or a range close?
c) plinking vs competition?

Reloading is basically mandatory. Some of the creedmoor shooters do alright with factory, but it’s expensive. If you don’t, and decide to add a new reloading setup in, the price obviously goes up

You have to get enough trigger time to make the investment worth while, and that means having someplace close to shoot. Driving 1.5-3 hrs or more, at >$1.20 L, is going to eat up the recreation time allowance and budget real quick (for most of us). Thus why you see lots of range toys for sale with only a couple hundred rounds down the barrel.

Those who own rugers and savages are typically plinking, and most seem to enjoy them. Competition guns are a different level.

[wally338]

When buying a cheaper gun like savage, ruger, marlin and the like most people end up upgrading them down road so by the time your done you may as well have spent the money on a TRG, AI, DT or similar high quality rifle that will hold it's value.

[Stinky Coyote]

i'm building a little one up a slightly different direction than most but maybe will give you ideas?

Howa barreled action (order from prophet river)

Mdt Lss or Lss xl chassis (made in bc, order direct)

Put the whole thing together yourself at home, pretty slick, removes gunsmithing to get good accuracy.

The one i'm building is in 6.5 grendel for the kids so it can grow with them. I went with the lightest barreled action, the 20" #1 contour. Using talley rings and lightweight ar buttstock and grip.

This is a decent budget way to go and by all accounts throwing these howa actions into these chassis sounds like 1/2 moa is the norm.

Ours will be used for calling predators so needs to be maneuverable on sticks or bipods(read not too heavy) and will also do some big game work etc. so needs to be lighter than typical precision builds. It's 6.5 lbs without scope, putting a vx5 2-10x42 duplex cds with lumina flips on it and it comes in at 1 lb 2.5 oz additional. That's very light for a chassis build.

I think if looking for more horsepower the 6.5 creedmoor howa barreled action in the mdt lss xl would be a great build. Good luck with your choice.

i just saw you said possibly .223 size, well that is what the howa mini-action is, the 6.5 grendel is that 'size' so to speak in terms of same action length, but at least with the grendel you can hunt big game too, and much better long range than the .223....the 6.5 grendel actually mirrors .308 win performance in terms of range/trajectory but 50-60% less recoil. If you're curious to know more head to the 6.5 grendel forum but think of it as the 6.5 creedmoor short

[Stinky Coyote]

ooh, i believe howa has their own chassis rifles now too, prophet river to buy, legacy sports international to browse the combinations...have fun

[Trochu]

Suppose it depends one what your intentions are. If you're just plinking/shooting/getting into precision shooting for fun, I would think the Ruger/Tikka/Savage would more than meet your needs. They provide an excellent package with most of the required features at an affordable price. If you are serious about shooting, are accomplished already, and going into competitions, you may want to up the budget. That being said, at the top level, I don't think many guys are buying package guns, but building them.

[PFKGSP]

Originally Posted by 3blade

a) do you reload?
b) do you have a farm or a range close?
c) plinking vs competition?

.

As for a and b, I have a shooting bench on my deck outside my reloading room.

c, I just like to shoot accurate rifles at a distance. Not really interested in competition.

It is 341 yards to my property line with another 450 or so across the neighbours 1/4 to where the coyotes den.

[mattthegorby]

Originally Posted by PFKGSP

It is 341 yards to my property line with another 450 or so across the neighbours 1/4 to where the coyotes den.

Nice!

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by PFKGSP

It is 341 yards to my property line with another 450 or so across the neighbours 1/4 to where the coyotes den.

Ooh, sounds awesome!

Check out the 6.5 Grendel for those desires and options! About same recoil energy as a .22-250 (right between a .223 and .243) and holds 1000 ft/lbs to 400 yrds if that was a minimum deer requirement but I like fps and more frangible bullets so my gauge shows the Grendel to hold 1600 fps impact velocity to about 600 yards...shoot it all day and it’s got that accuracy reputation like the creedmoor etc. The creedmoor will do similar velocity another 250 yards further but higher recoil of course.

Now if you’d like a really accurate .204 ruger in a custom tikka varmint set up ready to dial up to 600 without ricochet etc then let me know and maybe I’ll part with ol’painless? 1” at at 250 yards with factory. Pm me if anyone interested, I may list it.

[6.5 shooter]

The guys at our little informal shoot here in the Hat....have everything from high end customs to factory Savages....Do the Savages win the matches? no, but they do scare the heck out of the expensive high end customs...

Any rifle will only shoot as well as the nut behind the gun...

[Alta_Redneck]

I personally went the higher end route. I purchased a pgw coyote in 308, paired it with a Schmidt and bender scope and called it a day. I’ve seen great groups punched by savages and others, that could rival some custom builds but I don’t regret for a second buying my pgw. It just feels special every time you pull the trigger. It has shot every load I’ve run through it at moa or better, much better. I’m just in the initial stages of load development and I’m grouping .300 at 100 yards.

[HuntinGuy]

I run a Tikka CTR 6.5 creed 24”. (1300$) It’s in a Manners stock and it shoots great. I’ve shot lots of really small groups but realistically it shoots 2/3” or better all day everyday. Someone better at reloading could definitely get better results, 2/3” is good enough for me until I learn to read the wind, I was shooting 1200 yards a few days ago for the first time with great results.

I’m also a believer that most decent rifles will shoot sub moa and the optic is where you want to spend your money


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bchap22]

You should build a 6mm dasher if you want an accurate easy to shoot caliber. I have yet to see a dasher that will not drive tacks literally! If you have the money to spend on a custom rifle they why buy one off the shelf. IMHO you get way more for your dollar when you have a custom rifle built and you get to configure it however you like. That said you can spend as much as your heart desires or you can stick to a minimum budget of about $2000 and do a semi custom (ie: buy a donor gun and rebarrel and bed/trigger work/true action).

Originally Posted by PFKGSP

As for a and b, I have a shooting bench on my deck outside my reloading room.

c, I just like to shoot accurate rifles at a distance. Not really interested in competition.

It is 341 yards to my property line with another 450 or so across the neighbours 1/4 to where the coyotes den.

[titegroup]

Originally Posted by wally338

When buying a cheaper gun like savage, ruger, marlin and the like most people end up upgrading them down road so by the time your done you may as well have spent the money on a TRG, AI, DT or similar high quality rifle that will hold it's value.

I don't know whats so cheap about the upper end Savages ( not including axis), my 2 predator 10's .-243 & 22-250 / accustock/ accutrigers 24" med. heavy flutted barrels list for over $1000.00 and both shoot well under 1/2" @ 100yds. with select handloads-- they are everybit a precision rifle, depends on what a persons view of precision means.

[titegroup]

Originally Posted by Groundhogger

There are people out there WAY, WAY better equipped to answer this question than I am, but I think a couple of considerations might be budget and expectations. My personal experience with my Savage 10 (.223) shooting hand loads is that I am the weak link in the equation. I have pulled-off a few astonishingly small groups (in my opinion ) and that's a factory gun. I have considered looking into whether or not I could put a GRS stock on it, or, one of the aluminum chassis stocks...but to what end? I'm sure there is a benefit, but I could never imagine how a $1,000 upgrade would improve my groups more than more practice would. In fact, I don't think it could.

My most recent rifle purchase was an Anschutz from Nordic Marksman in NS. While poking around their site, I did notice this little gem and honestly...I think it would be an amazing .223 to own/shoot; http://www.nordicmarksman.com/1771-D-GRS-223-REM.html Some people need to feel more involved in their "build" and wouldn't be satisfied unless the barrel/stock/trigger/rail all came from different corners of the globe. Others want the best factory-built option they can get. The only guys I know who "build" their own believe the Savage actions are the most affordable, and easiest to work with.

Hope this helps...but probably not. lol

Totally agree, I have a Rem.700 varmint laminated/ heavy barrel .223/ 26". Just yesterday this gun shot .270"@ 100yds/ 3 shot group with a great handload. Is this gun classed as a precision rifle such as the Ruger / Savage/ Mossberg etc. -- no not really, but you can't argue with what the targets tell you, it is a precision rifle no matter how you cut it. I guess if you want to put all bullets in the same hole then .270" is not going to make the grade.

[catnthehat]

I have competed with Savage rifles in the past and a Savage F Class or Palma rifle will compete with the best .
Team Savage has proven this as have others ,
Change the barrel and put on an aftermarket barrel on any properly bedded action and proper stock for the discipline on a long range rifle and all bets are on the shooter themselves not the rifle - but that is only my opinion .
Cat

[elkhunter11]

I have owned three Tikka T-3 varmint rifles, and all three were honest 1/2moa rifles. Two friends also have T-3 varmint rifles, and both are also sub 1/2moa rifles. It's hard to beat the T-3 varmint for the price.

[260 Rem]

Got to admit a lot of envy when I read about factory rigs printing consistent 5 shot groups in the threes at 100m ... because they are not “givens” among many of the aftermarket barrels I run on Barnard / BAT / Stiller actions.
If any owners of those tackdrivers would just sell me sell me their rig, it would save me lots of money

[titegroup]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

I have competed with Savage rifles in the past and a Savage F Class or Palma rifle will compete with the best .
Team Savage has proven this as have others ,
Change the barrel and put on an aftermarket barrel on any properly bedded action and proper stock for the discipline on a long range rifle and all bets are on the shooter themselves not the rifle - but that is only my opinion .
Cat

Yup. Agreed. MY box stock Savages & Rem.700 Varmint Laminate are all 1/2" or less guns easily with the right load & a steady shooter.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by titegroup

I don't know whats so cheap about the upper end Savages....

Its quite relative, an A.I., as the OP mention, can easily run $9k+ while a Savage 10 FCP-SR can be had for less than a grand.

[Fordevr]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I have owned three Tikka T-3 varmint rifles, and all three were honest 1/2moa rifles. Two friends also have T-3 varmint rifles, and both are also sub 1/2moa rifles. It's hard to beat the T-3 varmint for the price.

Love love love my Tikka HB Varmint in .204. The target below is 600 yards with factory Federal ammo, factory Tikka rifle and a Sightron 6-24x50 ffp

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by Fordevr

Love love love my Tikka HB Varmint in .204. The target below is 600 yards with factory Federal ammo, factory Tikka rifle and a Sightron 6-24x50 ffp

I have same rig except leupold vx3 6.5-20x40 and mine shoots like that too and with federal 39 gr. Last zero check was 3 at 250 just under an inch.

260rem...ill consider selling.😉

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showt...=Tikka+varmint

There, my build thread on the tikka. Shoots groups in the 2" range at 500 on bag or bipod. Most accurate gun I've owned.

[6.5 shooter]

Both of my model 12 Savages were not cheap or inexpensive.... But they do compete with the guys spending 2-3x as much on their custom jobs.

PS. just for the record I am NOT a big Savage fan but for a newby looking to get into precision shooting you get a whole lot of gun for not a huge amount of money.

[Groundhogger]

Originally Posted by Fordevr

Love love love my Tikka HB Varmint in .204. The target below is 600 yards with factory Federal ammo, factory Tikka rifle and a Sightron 6-24x50 ffp

Interestingly enough...likely my next rifle. I posted about .204 a while back, checking to see if the Tikka will shoot 32gr. well. The responses sealed the deal. In "saving" mode at the moment.

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=338017

[Groundhogger]

Originally Posted by titegroup

Totally agree, I have a Rem.700 varmint laminated/ heavy barrel .223/ 26". Just yesterday this gun shot .270"@ 100yds/ 3 shot group with a great handload. Is this gun classed as a precision rifle such as the Ruger / Savage/ Mossberg etc. -- no not really, but you can't argue with what the targets tell you, it is a precision rifle no matter how you cut it. I guess if you want to put all bullets in the same hole then .270" is not going to make the grade.

^yep. I guess it depend on one's definition of "precision". I've met guys who have gone the "full Monty" on custom/precision builds and scoff at groups a hair smaller than my best. Maybe the difference is they can do it every time..? I wouldn't know, I shoot for fun...and don't tend to take myself that seriously. To each their own. If you have the cake and want to see what it's all about=whatever blows your hair back. For me, anything under 1/2" @ 100 yards is "precision" in my books, and I've pulled that off with factory guns/triggers and careful work-ups on hand loads. They include;

Savage 10 (.223)
Cooper 51 (.204)
Savage 10 Predator (.243, the most difficult)

most recently..

CZ 527 (17 Hornet)

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by titegroup

Totally agree, I have a Rem.700 varmint laminated/ heavy barrel .223/ 26". Just yesterday this gun shot .270"@ 100yds/ 3 shot group with a great handload. Is this gun classed as a precision rifle such as the Ruger / Savage/ Mossberg etc. -- no not really, but you can't argue with what the targets tell you, it is a precision rifle no matter how you cut it. I guess if you want to put all bullets in the same hole then .270" is not going to make the grade.

What happens with five shot groups? I use three shot groups for hunting rifles, but five shot groups for my varmint and target rifles.

[260 Rem]

To avoid a derail, I’ll start a “definition” thread.

[Arty]

For punching paper and gophers I'd go with a 6mmBR Norma cartridge; for paper, coyotes and gophers I'd start with one of the 6.5's or one of the faster 6mm's. Personal preference this year would probably be 6.5x284 or 260 AI; leaning toward the 260AI.

Then identify the action which you like, whether 2-lug or 3-lug, single-shot or magazine-fed.
http://www.6mmbr.com/actions.html

Then get a good local/regional gunsmith to chamber and mount it to a good sendero profile barrel or better, using a new reamer with specs optimized for the bullet ogive and weight you will be using (such as some sort of VLD for example). Get a custom stock with limbsaver pad, all perfectly fit to you. Maybe a Masterclass for example.
http://masterclassstocks.com/prone.html

Top it off with a picatinny rail and good scope mounting system, carrying a quality scope fine enough to be useful at the ranges which the rifle will be capable of shooting well.

I wouldn't start out with anything 'out of the box' anymore, because you'll be chasing this or that all over the place until things settle down. Better to just have it done well once, and go shooting.

[titegroup]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

What happens with five shot groups? I use three shot groups for hunting rifles, but five shot groups for my varmint and target rifles.

Each to there own way of criteria, my predator 10/ max 1's are hunting rifles, to me I don't consider them in any way a bench rest gun. The .243 with 105 hornady hp. match bt. has printed 5 shots @ 300yds. .645" which stunned me to say the least, but for the most part three shot groups suffice for my purpose, as most predators are dead with the first shot.