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  #1  
Old 11-11-2019, 08:18 AM
dugh dugh is offline
 
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So are NAFA's problems partly due to dealing with CIBC or was the bank appointed to settle things?. Is the bank caving to outside pressure? We have one account there and (I think) two Visa cards.
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  #2  
Old 11-11-2019, 08:22 AM
Marty S Marty S is offline
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My vote is for a nationwide trapper and hunter boycott of CIBC for pulling NAFAís financing.

Anybody good at arranging such?
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  #3  
Old 11-11-2019, 09:18 AM
Big Grey Wolf Big Grey Wolf is offline
 
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Saw this happen to many good companies in 80's. Eastern Bankers like CIBC get cold feet when economy slows down and call All their loans just to protect their butts. Presently going on these days in Alberta, hurting a lot of good companies and hard working people. When a Banker cannot stand behind a company with a 350 year history, who will they support through the rough sledding times.
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  #4  
Old 11-11-2019, 10:26 AM
saskbooknut saskbooknut is offline
 
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Complaints about the CIBC would only have some validity if one had some real inside knowledge of the state of NAFA finances.
All else is hot air.
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  #5  
Old 11-11-2019, 01:49 PM
Marty S Marty S is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saskbooknut View Post
Complaints about the CIBC would only have some validity if one had some real inside knowledge of the state of NAFA finances.
All else is hot air.
Consider the possibility that some people do have that knowledge.
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  #6  
Old 11-11-2019, 01:51 PM
dugh dugh is offline
 
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Way too early to blame CIBC. I've never checked a NAFA ckeck to see what bank it was drawn on but I won't deal with an anti. That being said there has probably been some poor management along the way and sometimes a bank just has to say that's enough. I'll wait and see, but I won't rely on others to make a determination.
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  #7  
Old 11-11-2019, 08:50 PM
bushbug bushbug is offline
 
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wasnt it a boycott on wild fur that got us here be careful what youy start
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  #8  
Old 11-11-2019, 09:59 PM
spoiledsaskhunter spoiledsaskhunter is offline
 
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did i read that creditors are on the hook for around 45 million?........that wouldn't have anything to do with it..would it?
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  #9  
Old 11-12-2019, 05:54 AM
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WhiskeyJack WhiskeyJack is offline
 
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It looks like they used the cash flow from the ranch and wild fur sales to purchase/bail out fur farms for an over valued price using debt. Based on the increase in goodwill the management of NAFA paid more than the value of the assets. All good for a few years until ranch volume crater and the cash flow no longer supports loan used to bail out the fur farmers. Pretty classic business failure over leveraged business with inexperienced business leaders. If the bailouts were to related parties or family I donít think I would be surprised at this point.

All the lies about bad routing numbers and we will make good bs.
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  #10  
Old 11-12-2019, 06:28 AM
kingrat kingrat is offline
 
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Not cibc fault. Any bank would have looked at the numbers and risk and said no thanks. Otherwise another bank would have snatched them up instantly, fur or not. Nafa and the mink ranchers killed nafa, not the banks or wild fur.
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  #11  
Old 11-12-2019, 07:53 AM
Big Grey Wolf Big Grey Wolf is offline
 
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The majority of Creditors are trappers still owed a few thousand $$ for their fur that they shipped. It is sad but we are at the bottom of the pile of groups fighting for the spoils of a company with a 350 year history in Canada.
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  #12  
Old 11-12-2019, 10:55 AM
trapperdodge trapperdodge is offline
 
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Who knows what happened? Banks are in the business of making money. They have shareholders to answer to. Either a loan performs or it doesn't. The bank wants their money.

It's no different if you owe the bank or a 350yo company owes the bank. You don't pay - they call the loan. NAFA's business model failed.

It's too bad but that's life. Perhaps something even better might rise from the ashes, only time will tell. In the meantime trappers are at the bottom of this gut pile. Not a good place to be.
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  #13  
Old 11-12-2019, 03:15 PM
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I feel bad for the trappers that are going to get screwed in this bankruptcy. I also feel sorry for the long list of unsecured creditors that are also going to get nothing. That said, don't blame the bank, who will likely take a large loss as well. The company screwing the trapper is 100% NAFA. They decimated a long standing and very successful company.

When and if the full story comes out it will be clear they have been headed the wrong way for a long time and they were not about to take any advice on how to turn things around. A long and illustrious history is no guarantee of future success. Just ask Eatons, Sears and the Bay.
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  #14  
Old 11-13-2019, 08:31 AM
Big Grey Wolf Big Grey Wolf is offline
 
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Sorry guys their are two types of Bankers. The "Good Banker" that works with your company during the good times. Then the Eastern big banks replace the managers with the boys that swing the baseball bats. CIBC was told by head off to call NAFA's loans when cash flow dropped below "keep your butt safe level". Now many thousand hard working trappers will loose $$ from their hard work.
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Old 11-13-2019, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf View Post
Sorry guys their are two types of Bankers. The "Good Banker" that works with your company during the good times. Then the Eastern big banks replace the managers with the boys that swing the baseball bats. CIBC was told by head off to call NAFA's loans when cash flow dropped below "keep your butt safe level". Now many thousand hard working trappers will loose $$ from their hard work.
This old wives tale has been around longer than me, and that is a long time. I spent nearly 35 years in banking, some with 2 Eastern Banks, and some with ATB. The old saw about replacing Managers when times get tough is pure fiction. That said, nearly 100% of your experience with any Bank is dependant on how good the person you are dealing with is but no matter how good the Manager or Account Manager is, he can't offset the effects created by Company Management and Directors that make a whole bunch of bad decisions and run a once great company into the ground. They also can't protect suppliers, like trappers, from continuing to supply product on credit to a company that is clearly headed down the drain.
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Old 11-13-2019, 09:40 AM
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One additional comment, this is NOT a case of a Bank calling their loans when "cashflow dropped below the keep your butt safe level". This company has been issuing rubber cheques, and lots of them for months, the issues were well known and discussed. They also bald faced lied to the people that were getting the rubber cheques. There clearly was NO cashflow and no Bank can tolerate a client that continues to issue bad cheques, let alone can't make their debt payments.

In many ways it is probably a very good thing they went under now, at least most guys have got the majority of their money for last year. If it had happened in Apr next year imagine how many dollars trappers would stand to loose.
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  #17  
Old 11-14-2019, 08:39 AM
Big Grey Wolf Big Grey Wolf is offline
 
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During the recession in the 80's the only bank you could trust to see your farm or business through the tough sledding was the Alberta Treasury Branch. The Big Eastern bankers sucked ALL the $$$ out of Alberta before they lost their next promotion. I suspect CIBC is pulling the same stunt with us trappers.
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  #18  
Old 11-23-2019, 08:41 PM
Drewski Canuck Drewski Canuck is offline
 
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Who are the shareholders of NAFA? Is it a Public traded company? If not, then is it a Cooperative?

It seems a lot of the cash flow arguments are pretty thin. This is a fur auction is it not?

You get paid when They get Paid, in the normal Auction world. Except you did not get paid. But they got their commission, and then some!!

If it was a Public company or a Cooperative, then there could be some accountability through a Board of Directors.

Otherwise, you will get no accountability.

Perhaps a Purchase Money Security Interest on the Assets to be sold, registered at the Personal Property Security Registry, and discharged on payment to you, would have been a safeguard. Then no interest could pass until they cut you a cheque that did not bounce.


Drewski
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