Terrible group at 200 yards

[The Huntinator]

I have been hunting for 12 years now but due to my hunting style I rarely shoot past 100 yards. Lately I have been shooting my .22 a lot ,working on my form, and I finally got to the range today. I have a rugar m77 in .270 that I have used since I was 15. I normally shoot handloads but I haven't had a chance to get to my dads to make any up for a while. I picked up a couple boxes of cheap federal 130gr rounds to do a bit of practice. I shot the first box and a half at 100 yards and was feeling pretty good. These factory loads were shooting about an inch low and an inch to the left. Almost all of my 3 shot groups were under an inch. I decided to shoot the last 10 rounds at 200 yards. I wasn't expecting any spectacular results since I have never really practiced at that range but I thought I would do alright. My friend had started shooting his .22 so instead of going and checking how I did every few shots I thought I would let him keep shooting and just shoot a 10 round group at the center of my target. I shot the last 10 rounds slow enough to make sure my barrel wasn't heating up too bad and focused on my form as much as I could. All my shots felt good except for one or two where I could tell I jerked the trigger slightly. When I went to check how I did I couldn't believe how bad it was. Only four of the 10 shots even hit the paper and they were spread out about 6 inches. I believe it was 10 inches from the center of the target to the bottom and the four shots that hit were right along the bottom. I was expecting to shoot about 5 inches low but not 9. Could this problem be me or would it be something with my setup? I'm going back tomorrow, is there anything you guys would suggest I try?

[DaleJ]

Zero your rifle to shoot 2.5" high at 100, then try the 200 meter shots. Your low shots at 100 will be lower at 200.

[FallAirFever]

Originally Posted by DaleJ

Zero your rifle to shoot 2.5" high at 100, then try the 200 meter shots. Your low shots at 100 will be lower at 200.

This ^^^^ also maybe try some different ammo. Federal fusions usually group pretty well out of most rifle. Also some of it is probably you. I know my groups usually start to open up after shoot a box of so of ammo. I am a casual shooter only and after that much range time I start flinching a bit.

Also this heat may be affecting your ability to group. Barrel not cooling enough on the heat?

[6.5 shooter]

Raise your sight like DaleJ suggested. also have your buddy load your rifle for you and hand you the rifle either with or with out a round in the chamber (too see if your flinching when the rifle goes click instead of bang).

Are your resting your hand on the scope/ barrel when you fire the rifle? if so stop it.
pulling on the sling will also create wild shots as well.

Just a few things to consider in regards to your form etc.

Lots more but let us know how this session went, then maybe others can help you out.

[The Huntinator]

Thanks for the tips. I don't really want to move my zero because I have it set 2" high at 100 when I use my hand loads. I will try setting up something below the target though to at least get it on paper. The reason I have shot my .22 so much this year was because I did have a bit of a flinch, I believed I had solved that problem but like you said maybe after shooting a box and a half it started coming back a bit. The sound was what was getting me to flinch (I used to flinch when using a .22 or even when I was being the spotter but constant practice with the .22 using good ear protection seemed to cure it) so maybe I will try using plugs and muffs to help with the sound. I will also try the not knowing if its loaded trick and get my dad to watch tomorrow.

I don't touch the scope or sling when I shoot off the bench. Today I had one sandbag up front as a rest then I put my left hand under the butt of my stock against my shoulder. This is what I have found seems the most steady for me. Is there a different position I should maybe try?

[TriggerHappyHippy]

When I am trying to shoot tight groups, I usually use a bi pod, and a bag under the the stock at the back. I dont want a heartbeat on the rifle. I try to let the rifle recoil naturally and let it do what it wants. I dont even wrap my trigger thumb around the rifle. Again this would put a heartbeat on the stock. The only parts of my body touching the rifle are my shoulder ( the rifle resting against it) and my trigger finger. My grandfather taught me to think of yourself not as shooting a gun, but instead being a trigger puller. You should be able to close your eyes after you are on target, and when you open them, your point of aim should not change. If you are having to use muscle to hold it at a point of aim, this will be inconsistant from shot to shot. The only thing my body does when I shoot, is absorb recoil, and pull the trigger. I have found thois to work extremely well. The less variables you have from shot to shot, the tighter your groups will be. Using this method, I always breath normally. That is the easiest routine to duplicate shot to shot. my shot is after I exhale. I never hold my breath

[TriggerHappyHippy]

I should state, that I use this method when shooting prone or from a bench. Also dont manipulate the rifle using your hand at the rear on the stock. hold the bag, and manipulate it to achieve the point of aim you are after. Like I said the rifle will only be touching your shoulder on the recoil pad, and your finger on the trigger when ready to shoot

[260 Rem]

Many times, I see rifles set with the sling stud nestled in the bag ... Or with the sling between the fore stock and the bag. For consistent groups, the rifle needs to recoil along a smooth plane, not over a "lump:.

[gtr]

QUOTE=6.5 shooter;2489064]Raise your sight like DaleJ suggested. also have your buddy load your rifle for you and hand you the rifle either with or with out a round in the chamber (too see if your flinching when the rifle goes click instead of bang).

Are your resting your hand on the scope/ barrel when you fire the rifle? if so stop it.
pulling on the sling will also create wild shots as well.

Just a few things to consider in regards to your form etc.

Lots more but let us know how this session went, then maybe others can help you out.[/QUOTE]

Good advice.

[DaleJ]

Originally Posted by The Huntinator

Thanks for the tips. I don't really want to move my zero because I have it set 2" high at 100 when I use my hand loads. I will try setting up something below the target though to at least get it on paper. The reason I have shot my .22 so much this year was because I did have a bit of a flinch, I believed I had solved that problem but like you said maybe after shooting a box and a half it started coming back a bit. The sound was what was getting me to flinch (I used to flinch when using a .22 or even when I was being the spotter but constant practice with the .22 using good ear protection seemed to cure it) so maybe I will try using plugs and muffs to help with the sound. I will also try the not knowing if its loaded trick and get my dad to watch tomorrow.

I don't touch the scope or sling when I shoot off the bench. Today I had one sandbag up front as a rest then I put my left hand under the butt of my stock against my shoulder. This is what I have found seems the most steady for me. Is there a different position I should maybe try?

Won't move your zero, but rifle shoots low? If its that difficult to zero record the current settings before adjusting. Being able to adjust scope eliminates it from being the problem.

[colroggal]

Shooting technique aside (mine sucks so I ain't hardly gonna give advice on that), I was out playing around with my savage 12 this morning. .204 ruger. I figured out it's favorite meal is 32g hornady's and I haven't tried reloading for it yet. I was sighted at 100yds and I walked it out to 400yds, recording the clicks as I went. I was less concerned with group size as poi shift. Out at 400 I was able to dial the settings back to 100 and it had me giggling when the first hit was within a half inch of the crosshairs. I used my last ten or twelve shots to wack clays at various known ranges and only missed a couple of times.

Now I just have work on my technique ...

Colin.

[Pudelpointer]

Originally Posted by DaleJ

Won't move your zero, but rifle shoots low? If its that difficult to zero record the current settings before adjusting. Being able to adjust scope eliminates it from being the problem.

Yeah, I just don't understand why some people (there are lots of them out there) are so resistant to adjusting their scope.

At 100 yards, fire three rounds and make adjustments for the averaged impact point. Record the clicks if you need to.

If you go back to your previous ammo, just reverse what you did, or follow the above procedure again.

If your scope adjustments are not repeatable, then you need a new scope.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by 6.5 shooter

. also have your buddy load your rifle for you and hand you the rifle either with or with out a round in the chamber (too see if your flinching when the rifle goes click instead of bang).

Not sure about that one. Doubt that is the issue if most of his previous three shots grouped in under an inch at 100 yards.

[Skytop B]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Not sure about that one. Doubt that is the issue if most of his previous three shots grouped in under an inch at 100 yards.

Good drill for pistols, fire one, dry fire one, fire one, dry fire one keep doing till that front sight does not move. Amazing how you can develop a small flinch and not even know it. Funny how everyone immediately blames the gun or the ammo for poor groups.

[pikeslayer22]

Plus that small flinch opens up more, the more yardage that you are shooting

[6.5 shooter]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Not sure about that one. Doubt that is the issue if most of his previous three shots grouped in under an inch at 100 yards.

Just trying to help the guy out!

I have a terrible flinch...(4:30 low about 4") to many years of no ear protection and poor fitting rifles.

I now double up on hearing protection, use a limb saver shoulder pad as well as a recoil pad on the rifle and proper fitting rifles.

But I can still shoot some pretty impressive groups if I do say so myself. ....BUT I wonder how much better I could shoot IF I could have asked a couple questions on a forum like this 50 years ago?

[sikwhiskey]

Some good info here already. I'll add what works for me. Unload the rifle, or fire a round and don't eject the spent brass. Cock the bolt, relax, centre the crosshairs on target, Breath………., squeeze trigger, where were the crosshairs when it when "click"? did the crosshairs move from flinch or improper trigger squeeze? Where your eyes closed at that time? Train yourself to keep them open even under recoil for proper follow through. Do this as many times as you have too, you can practice "dry firing" even while hunting/sitting in a stand or in a ground blind, and requires no ammo spent.
Many people shut there eyes while shooting, it can be a hard habit to break, everything becomes clear when your eyes remain open lol. Once you master this off the bench, get off the bench and try it prone, kneeling, sitting, standing or whatever you would use for a rest in the field.
Good luck, keep your powder dry.