Long Range Ballistics

[clakjp]

Velocity and B.C.




Velocity done range is do to What? = B.C.= Which is based on bullet weight and other variables.


So Bullet weight does matter.

[elkhunter11]

I use JBM ballistic software aswell and you are not correct.I does matter.I think you are doing somthing wrong.I was shooting today and my 168gr berger with a B.C. of .617 vers my 50 gr sierra with a B.C. of .243 sure made a difference at 500 yards. and 600 even worse. Like I stated in last post you are not compairing apples to apples.

I am not comparing apples to apples?

I am comparing two different bullet weights,the same make and model of bullet,each driven out of the same gun at the maximum velocity for that gun.The lighter bullet has more velocity,the heavier bullet has a higher B.C.Out to 500 yards,there is no significant difference in point of impact.

You on the other hand are comparing two different bullet diameters,Two different makes and models of bullets,two different bullet weights,two different B.C.s,and two different cartridges fired out of two different rifles.

Now who isn't comparing apples to apples?

Also I think you have no clue on this topic.

If that is how you compare bullets,it is you that has no clue as to the topic.

[noneck180]

POST 66

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I was simply using different bullet weights,and entering the same B.C. and velocity to test the effect of bullet weight.The actual bullet does not have to exist for the purpose of the calculation.

POST 67

exactly ,, you are using numbers that are not real...

Can a .177 cal, 30gr bullet have a B.C of .700??? No

This has nothing do with post 62...I wasn't referring to it maybe you need some reading comprehension...

[clakjp]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I am not comparing apples to apples?

I am comparing two different bullet weights,the same make and model of bullet,each driven out of the same gun at the maximum velocity for that gun.The lighter bullet has more velocity,the heavier bullet has a higher B.C.Out to 500 yards,there is no significant difference in point of impact.

You on the other hand are comparing two different bullet diameters,Two different makes and models of bullets,two different bullet weights,two different B.C.s,and two different cartridges fired out of two different rifles.

Now who isn't comparing apples to apples?



If that is how you compare bullets,it is you that has no clue as to the topic.

A bullet is a bullet.


Ok 139sst and the 168gr burger same gun still big difference. at that range of 500+ yards. Mine is shot out of a real gun not you calculator.



So If you know so much why would you ask all of us a question and spit on all of us for answering you??? I think you need to go buy and shoot those bullet you are talking about. I bet you will find your foot in your mouth. Shoot them to a thousand yards I want all your data. You dont know bud. You just think you do.

[elkhunter11]

So where did I say weight had anything to do with it?? before you rudely asked your type of questions many posts ago.

Where did I post that you said that weight was a factor?I just pointed out that long distance shooters choose bullets with the highest B.C. not the heaviest weight.

What I did respond to was your ridiculous insinuations as to me making up bullet dia/B.C/weight combinations that were not realistic and likely didn't exist.You insinuated this on several occasions,yet I had already quite plainly posted my examples for all to see in the previous post #62.In two posts you attempted to be sarcastic,but the joke was on you,because I had already posted those examples,and was laughing at your intended sarcasm,just as I posted that I was.

Just a note,, I can comprehend just fine..and I want an answer...no games.

Either you didn't read post #62,or you didn't comprehend it,either way,your insinuations and attempted sarcasm were total failures as a result.Like it or not,there is your answer.

The strangest part about this entire thread,is that we actually seem to agree as to velocity,B.C. and their effects on trajectory and wind drift.

[noneck180]

oh well the way I read it the laugh is on you...FYI...I know what I am talking about..and no I didn't read your examples on post #62 till today,, I normally don't go back on posts..

[elkhunter11]

POST 67

exactly ,, you are using numbers that are not real...

Can a .177 cal, 30gr bullet have a B.C of .700??? No

This has nothing do with post 62...I wasn't referring to it maybe you need some reading comprehension..

Where did I mention a .177 cal bullet?

I chose the .308" bullets weighing 180gr,200gr,and 220gr with a B.C. of .500 because there are several bullets being made that are very close if not identical.In any case.such bullets would be practical to make and use for hunting,unlike the .177 cal,30gr bullet with a B.C. of .700 that you posted as your example.

If you had simply read and comprehended post #62,you would have known what bullets I chose as examples,and you should have known that they are realistic in dia,weight,and B.C.

[clakjp]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

[noneck180]

All I am saying is that on those B.C programs if you don't use proper B.C you can put what ever weight you want...maybe read..
Again I will reiterate, I did not read your examples in post #62, thus I was just trying to get across in an over exaggerated example, of what could be done on one of these programs.

[elkhunter11]

A bullet is a bullet.

The 139gr sst,a 168gr VLD,and a 170gr Sierra round nose are all .284"bullets.Are they all the same?

Ok 139sst and the 168gr burger same gun still big difference. at that range of 500+ yards. Mine is shot out of a real gun not you calculator.

I posted

Out to 500 yards,

Out to 500 yards,and 500+ yards are not the same.They are not apples to apples.

I think you need to go buy and shoot those bullet you are talking about. I bet you will find your foot in your mouth.

Guess what,I am a regular at the local range,and I have done a lot of shooting over the years.Several people on this forum see me shooting on a regular basis.I have shot many bullets out to 500 yards and compared them to see the results for myself.Guess what,my results don't always match the manuals or the trajectory calculations,but I find the trajectories out to 500 yards to be quite similar with both heavier and lighter bullets of the same make and model,if all are used to their potential.

Shoot them to a thousand yards I want all your data.

What part of

Out to 500 yards

don't you understand?
I shoot targets to 500 yards/at most 550 yards and I will shoot no farther than 500 yards on a game animal.

You dont know bud.

Actually I do know a Bud,nice fellow,he's retired now,but he used to work as a millwright.But what does Bud have to do with ballistics?

[elkhunter11]

Again I will reiterate, I did not read your examples in post #62, thus I was just trying to get across in an over exaggerated example, of what could be done on one of these programs.

And for the last time,I will reiterate,I posted the examples that I used just so people would know that they were realistic examples,and not an over exaggerated example,in order to give the calculations some credibility.

[noneck180]

You could better serve your time actually using some of your feeble knowledge to help people out instead of stupid games..I know what kind of person you are.. Goodbye for now..

[elkhunter11]

You could better serve your time actually using some of your feeble knowledge to help people out instead of stupid games..I know what kind of person you are..

Okay,I will try to help you.

Start by printing out you last post.

Take the post to the nearest mirror and stand in front of it.

Now read your post aloud as you look at yourself in the mirror.

Hopefully it helps you.

[clakjp]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Okay,I will try to help you.

Start by printing out you last post.

Take the post to the nearest mirror and stand in front of it.

Now read your post aloud as you look at yourself in the mirror.

Hopefully it helps you.

Wow. You are special. Thanks for 4 pages of crap that you started..... You are a TROLL...


Dont even respond to this.

[Got Juice?]

Guys!

Keep it factual if you don't mind. this thread was actually great reading until it denigrated to it's current form.

[switchsl]

I would still like somebody to do the math and post it, when you're all done the argument.

[SHORTMAG]

I'm waiting for the "results too" !!...an I just made a big batch of popcorn....enough for me 'n Bud(the milwright)

[North of 53]

The B.C. of a bullet will trump most other factors for shooting at long range.
I have been reading most of the posts on this thread and I have not seen so much BS about BC in a long time.
I shoot a lot and I shoot a lot at over 500 yards and a hell of a lot at over 300 yards, over 40lbs of powder last year.
One of the guns I shoot is a 22-250 A.I. with a 1:8 twist. I shoot 80 grain vlds. The gun is zeroed at 340 yards that puts it about 3.6 high at 100 (or one mild dot) and about 18" low at 500 (or about one mild dot) it hits at 500 yards with just under 1000 ft lb.
I can also shoot 36 vg in this gun and with a 340 zero they drop about 31" at 500 yards and show up there with less than 150 ft/lb.
This may be an extreme example but it is what it is.
Heaver bullets of the same caliber and design don't have a higher B.C. just because they are heavier they have a higher B.C. mostly because they are longer. Faster twists are not needed to shoot heavier bullets as much as they are needed to shoot longer bullets that just tend to be heaver.
The 6.5s are now the most popular F class caliber because they are a nice balance of high B.C. bullets that buck the wind well and yet are not so heavy as to beat up the shooter with to much recoil.
I am sure there are lots of guys out there that shoot a hell of a lot as well. All I can say that most people shoot under 300 yards and at that range you can shoot just about anything you feel good with. Things change a little when you go to 500 yards and they change lot after 500 yards. I don't shot past 1000 yards because that is a whole other world of shooting and I have not gotten there yet. But the one thing I do know out past 1000 the higher B.C. of a bullet is key.
If you don't have the shot out barrels in the corner I really don't think you really know what you are talking about when it comes to long range ballistics.
Good software helps but you have to put in the range time.

[elkhunter11]

One of the guns I shoot is a 22-250 A.I. with a 1:8 twist. I shoot 80 grain vlds. The gun is zeroed at 340 yards that puts it about 3.6 high at 100 (or one mild dot) and about 18" low at 500 (or about one mild dot) it hits at 500 yards with just under 1000 ft lb.
I can also shoot 36 vg in this gun and with a 340 zero they drop about 31" at 500 yards and show up there with less than 150 ft/lb.

If you drive both bullets at the maximum safe load in the same rifle,then you are certainly demonstrating the effect of B.C..But as I have maintained for the entire thread,I am comparing bullets of the same make and model,just different weights.If you were to take the heaviest and lightest vld available,and drive both to maximim velocity in your gun,with that same 340yards sight in,what would the difference in point of impact be at 500 yards?How about if you chose the lightest v-max and heaviest v-max?

I have done most of my shooting comparisons with 7mm bullets.I have compared the Nosler ballistic tips from 120gr(3700fps),140gr(3500fps) to 150gr(3400fps) out of my 7mmstw rifles,and with the same 300 yard sight in,the difference at 500 yards is about 2" with the 120gr dropping the least,and the 150gr dropping the most.

My comparisons with the TTSX 120gr and ttsx 140gr showed similar results.

After 500 yards,the heavier bullets may offer superior trajectory,but that isn't the case within 500 yards.

[super7mag]

What drag models are you using in your ballistics program the G1 or newer G7? I beleive Berger has both B.C.'s on there ammo, but most other companys do not. I have the old Exbal using the G1 models has been close in the past. The G7 drag is suposed to be more accurate I'm not sure which programs are running the G7, but it may show different #'s from one with it to one with out it.

[noneck180]

Quoted
Heaver bullets of the same caliber and design don't have a higher B.C. just because they are heavier they have a higher B.C. mostly because they are longer. Faster twists are not needed to shoot heavier bullets as much as they are needed to shoot longer bullets that just tend to be heaver.

Okay,, well how can they be heavier without being longer,,and inceasing the B.C?? length is what makes it heavier...