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  #31  
Old 10-12-2021, 10:35 AM
270person 270person is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Jims83cj5 View Post
Iíll say this then Iím done with it, you said you did it on purpose to watch his moustache twitch, I would say this guy did not realize his noise offended you or was leaving space for groups to come after him, you did not talk to him because you didnít want a confrontation, then donít talk to him in a way that would cause one, you were a guest and purposefully did something to aggravate a member, you donít know if he had disregard for you as you did not ask him, as a guest maybe you could of moved if you are scared to talk to people. I donít care if you were there first or not, talk to the guy with respect or move if your scared that you canít do that without having an argument. Unless the club says no brakes then he has every right to use one whenever wherever he wants.

I guess you'll just have to trust that I'm probably the last person afraid to talk to people, and if we've never met before it always begins in a courteous fashion. Some things should not need to be spelled out. IF the person acting in a discourteous manner is known to do what he wants, when he wants, impervious to the general rules of public courtesy then all bets are off.

When I have in this case, 3 longterm members advise me that the guy is a jerk and always has been, the time for talking is done. Not my job to educate the obtuse and entitled. If I had said one word this was the type of person that would have amped up the process or gone into ignore mode based on his past history, and things likely would have escalated. Rather than do that I chose a simpler, non-confrontational route and it worked very well. I just continued to shoot my rifles. No muss. No fuss.

Pretty simple range courtesy that you continue to overlook. If you are shooting a braked rifle, you don't plunk yourself down at a bench immediately beside others set up and shooting when there are a multitude of benches available where nobody, including yourself is affected. AND, take up TWO benches in the process using one for your spotting scope only. Why not shoot from THAT bench and set your scope up on the one between us? Maybe I should have done that before I commenced shooting? Set my thermos, load charts, gloves, scope, toothbrush, etc on bench to my left. My own personal "reserved for me and my gear" sign. Shouldn't have to explain or ask some things. Don't tie up 2 benches with your junk while being an inconsiderate boor with your rifle.

I'm an RSO at my range and I can tell you straight up, if I see someone about to set up a braked rifle beside ones already shooting without, I will "politely" suggest they just slide over one position. IF one is vacant. If one is not I ask the person already shooting if its an issue for them. If not then the range is hot. If they prefer not then the newcomer has choices. Remove brake or wait a bit.

Look at it this way. If you want to run open pipes on your hog that cause birds to fall from trees, I have zero problem with that. Until you decide to use the street as your personal dragstrip. Not courteous. Let the wind flow through your hair...and the space between your ears, somewhere that doesn't cause others grief. I know its important these days to be a nonconformist rebel, but hey. Try to previsualize yourself as not the only resident of this planet.

There are common rules of courtesy in every situation.
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Last edited by 270person; 10-12-2021 at 10:50 AM.
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  #32  
Old 10-12-2021, 10:41 AM
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The fact is, that every member has the right to intervene, if a violation of the range rules occurs, but many people are too intimidated to approach other people that they don't know at a range. Even some executives of the ranges are hesitant to approach offenders, unless it is a blatant safety violation that requires immediate attention. The result is that some people get used to doing what they want, until the executive receives complaints, and has to act to resolve the situation. Then the executive has to review video, and speak with witnesses, and follow up from there, all of which takes up time, that is limited for most range volunteers. Our club is relatively small, less than 1000 members, so complaints are not all that common, in fact most violations are actually observed by executive members while present to shoot, or to do range maintenance. But we do act on all violations we are aware of in a timely manner, usually with an explanation of the range rules, and a warning if deemed necessary. And that applies to all members including law enforcement and even executive members. We even had to remove a range officer a few years ago, because of his behavior towards other members, and because he was making up his own range rules. And for serious or repeat violations, we aren't going to deal with the offenders again, their membership will be revoked, and if they enter our facility again, they are considered trespassers.

This 1000%
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  #33  
Old 10-12-2021, 11:31 AM
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In Sitting bull's case , the braked shooters were there first , so I doubt they would be inclined to move , in fact if it were me I would just wait until they were finished.

These days there are far more braked rifles on our range than not , I hate being in close proximity of the dammed things
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  #34  
Old 10-12-2021, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by 58thecat View Post
true...engage and have an adult conversation and maybe point out the range rules if they are in violation....if the range rules don't apply to them as in nothing saying anything about rifle breaks and usage then you have choices to make stay and go through the shock wave therapy or leave and bring it up to the range managers that there could be a better way to accommodate all shooters and minor adjustments can/should be done to do so but we have all run into the entitled jerk(s) and they need to be removed so respectful people can enjoy a day at the range.
I don't know if it's a city thing or what but I hear lots of these stories like this of "those inconsiderate muzzle brake users" but everytime I approach someone and ask if they can setup at a further bench or in our case across to the benches along a divider wall made for this purpose they just smile say sorry and setup somewhere far away. So many people seem to want to just mumble under their breath and wallow in anger that they forget to think that these guys don't realize they are disturbing you and in reality would be happy to accommodate you.
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  #35  
Old 10-12-2021, 11:53 AM
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I don't know if it's a city thing or what but I hear lots of these stories like this of "those inconsiderate muzzle brake users" but everytime I approach someone and ask if they can setup at a further bench or in our case across to the benches along a divider wall made for this purpose they just smile say sorry and setup somewhere far away.
I don't think it's a "city thing" at all, I have met some real
Inconsiderate people on our range who think they can shoot the same as they do out in the bush without following our range rules .
I grew up on rifle ranges and over the years have seen pretty much everything from one end of the spectrum to the other .
Cat
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  #36  
Old 10-12-2021, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by 58thecat View Post
there really is ONLY one thing to do to avoid jerks is they are tossed immediately after one warning and one warning only.
I hear ya about setting up ranges to accommodate all types of shooters but some just never get it and will do as they wish...sad but true.
I don't think you are comprehending my suggestion. As it sits, people with a brake have a right to be there. Unless it is a designated area you will always have these issues.

No different than smoking and non smoking.

Give them their own designated benches. Then if the only open bench is next to the braked rifle benches, people have the option to sit down or wait for another bench to open.

Right now, you just have a recipe for pzzed off people and arguments.
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  #37  
Old 10-12-2021, 12:52 PM
Ackleyman Ackleyman is offline
 
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No doubt "brake man" knew what you were doing and packed up and left.
Thou shall not play /intentionally aggravate a man with a firearm..two peeved off people with guns ,could turn out bad. Rack the gun/s and have a civilized talk.
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  #38  
Old 10-12-2021, 02:28 PM
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I don't think you are comprehending my suggestion. As it sits, people with a brake have a right to be there. Unless it is a designated area you will always have these issues.

No different than smoking and non smoking.

Give them their own designated benches. Then if the only open bench is next to the braked rifle benches, people have the option to sit down or wait for another bench to open.

Right now, you just have a recipe for pzzed off people and arguments.

I do comprehend your suggestion and
Totally agree but there will be those that just donít care whether the range has a dedicated area for them to shoot and once set up etc they will tell ya to pizz offÖ.those are the ones that get punted like elk mentioned.


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  #39  
Old 10-12-2021, 03:02 PM
270person 270person is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Ackleyman View Post
No doubt "brake man" knew what you were doing and packed up and left.
Thou shall not play /intentionally aggravate a man with a firearm..two peeved off people with guns ,could turn out bad. Rack the gun/s and have a civilized talk.

I'd have done that no problem. Simple matter of flipping his spotting scope beside me and his boomer to the scope table. Should have done that in the first place.

I'm not anti brake. I own a braked rifle. I'm not a range God tho.
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  #40  
Old 10-12-2021, 03:30 PM
CptnBlues63 CptnBlues63 is offline
 
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My rifle has a brake. It's points the gases out the top only and it can't be removed without cutting the end of the barrel off. As a result, it is really loud under the roofed over benches but at least it doesn't blow gases at the people beside me. But there's rarely anyone beside me.

It's a small town range and I find if I go early in the morning (opening time) there's rarely anybody there. If I'm meeting a friend or taking a guest I setup a few benches away from them and warn them about the extra noise. If someone shows up while I'm shooting, I warn them.

My brake not only reduces recoil a bit, it also keeps the muzzle down so my time to reacquire my target is significantly less than my rifles without a brake.

I try to show the same courtesy to others I would expect from them.

.
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  #41  
Old 10-12-2021, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by 58thecat View Post
I do comprehend your suggestion and
Totally agree but there will be those that just donít care whether the range has a dedicated area for them to shoot and once set up etc they will tell ya to pizz offÖ.those are the ones that get punted like elk mentioned.


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  #42  
Old 10-12-2021, 09:17 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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We are kind of fortunate that our membership is small, so crowds are rare, so brakes are much less of an issue. If brakes did become an issue, I would suggest a plexiglass partition across the last bay against the wall, for braked rifles. It would likely be quite loud to shoot a braked rifle in a small space, but if someone has to deal with the noise and blast, it should be the people producing the noise and blast.
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  #43  
Old 10-12-2021, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by 270person View Post


Obviously unlike you I dont tolerate entitled jerks like this one, well known to "do whatever he wants to do" according to other members at this range at the time. That doesn't work for me anywhere in life's goings on.

I'm the most courteous person you could likely meet...to courteous people. Break that rule and I push back. Every single time. Unfortunate that some have had to sacrifice their own enjoyment because of people like this one.

I'm not anti brake. Just practice being courteous when using one and keep your distance from other shooters whenever possible. In this case there were lots of other benches open other than the one right beside me and I was in place shooting 30 minutes before donkey boy showed up.

You would most definitely NOT be the most courteous person I would meet. You wouldn't crack the top 100. true strength is not being an asshat when you want to be. But actually being courteous, even to those who you feel don't deserve it. 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you' comes to mind. being nice only to those who are nice to you. means your bubble of 'friends' shrinks fast. Even family members who can stand you will shrink. Your behaviour is embarrassing. You deserved the angst you felt shooting beside someone you felt was malicious based on their reputation. you fed into it. Seeing the world as against you is a fundamental choice that affects how you treat others and yourself.
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  #44  
Old 10-13-2021, 07:37 AM
eric2381 eric2381 is offline
 
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I sure enjoy having my own shooting bench and range at home. I donít have to deal with any members and their feelings. But when I used to shoot at a public range, Iíd avoid the week before hunting season, and usually would go at first light.
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  #45  
Old 10-13-2021, 08:06 AM
Jims83cj5 Jims83cj5 is offline
 
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You would most definitely NOT be the most courteous person I would meet. You wouldn't crack the top 100. true strength is not being an asshat when you want to be. But actually being courteous, even to those who you feel don't deserve it. 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you' comes to mind. being nice only to those who are nice to you. means your bubble of 'friends' shrinks fast. Even family members who can stand you will shrink. Your behaviour is embarrassing. You deserved the angst you felt shooting beside someone you felt was malicious based on their reputation. you fed into it. Seeing the world as against you is a fundamental choice that affects how you treat others and yourself.
Exactly!!!
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  #46  
Old 10-13-2021, 08:06 AM
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I sure enjoy having my own shooting bench and range at home. I donít have to deal with any members and their feelings. But when I used to shoot at a public range, Iíd avoid the week before hunting season, and usually would go at first light.
Yup, it gets bad during hunting season for sure.
I had a guy a while back tell me not to yell at him when he was on the range .
I told him everybody has plugs or muffs in, and an RSO NEEDS to yell so everyone can understand when a cease fire is called or the range is open.
his reply? " I didn't have my plugs in yet"
The range was open and people were firing when I called the cease fire!
Cat
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  #47  
Old 10-13-2021, 08:10 AM
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Yup, it gets bad during hunting season for sure.
I had a guy a while back tell me not to yell at him when he was on the range .
I told him everybody has plugs or muffs in, and an RSO NEEDS to yell so everyone can understand when a cease fire is called or the range is open.
his reply? " I didn't have my plugs in yet"
The range was open and people were firing when I called the cease fire!
Cat
Put him beside the fella with the muzzle break.....after one shot and you yelled cease fire he would thank you
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  #48  
Old 10-13-2021, 08:25 AM
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I use brakes on a couple of my rifles. If not I would be unable to handle the recoil for the number of shots when load developing. That said I get upset when I have people at the range who are not considerate to others when using brakes. I like the comments on talking to each other to work it out. If my brake is bothering someone I try to have a discussion with them and alternate our shooting so as to avoid any interference. Mostly I take my braked guns to the range at time I can normally expect low numbers of shooters.
We are all in this shooting sport together arguing over who is right or wrong on this issue may not solve the problem but at least on this forum we get to express our concerns and perhaps increase understanding of the effects we have on others around us.
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  #49  
Old 10-13-2021, 08:29 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Yup, it gets bad during hunting season for sure.
I had a guy a while back tell me not to yell at him when he was on the range .
I told him everybody has plugs or muffs in, and an RSO NEEDS to yell so everyone can understand when a cease fire is called or the range is open.
his reply? " I didn't have my plugs in yet"
The range was open and people were firing when I called the cease fire!
Cat
Anyone with a clue puts on their hearing protection before entering a live firing line, but unfortunately, some people are pretty clueless. I had to tell two women to step away from the bench during a cease fire, after I noticed one sitting at the bench, looking at the two men they came with through the scope on a rifle, as they put up targets. She acted offended when I told her that what she was doing was a serious safety violation, and when I had a conversation with the man who was the member that they were a guest of, he just shook his head.
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  #50  
Old 10-13-2021, 08:37 AM
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Our range has gotten a lot better in the last few years as far as brakes go.
There was a big shooting sports surge in the last fifteen years or so, and at first the people getting into the sport did all kinds of things either wrong or discourteous or against the range rules.
These days it seems there is a preponderance of of big boomers with brakes on them, but the community is small so we all pretty much know each other and help each other.
Its very easy for me to stop and wait until a braked shooter next to me finishes and has to let their rifle cool down, and if they are shooting prone next to me we usually spot for each other so there is not two of us shooting at the same time.
Cat
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  #51  
Old 10-13-2021, 09:59 AM
270person 270person is offline
 
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You would most definitely NOT be the most courteous person I would meet. You wouldn't crack the top 100. true strength is not being an asshat when you want to be. But actually being courteous, even to those who you feel don't deserve it. 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you' comes to mind. being nice only to those who are nice to you. means your bubble of 'friends' shrinks fast. Even family members who can stand you will shrink. Your behaviour is embarrassing. You deserved the angst you felt shooting beside someone you felt was malicious based on their reputation. you fed into it. Seeing the world as against you is a fundamental choice that affects how you treat others and yourself.

Nice exaggerations. By your reasoning if I own a 1 ton dually it's ok to take up 2 stalls in the busiest part of the grocery store parking lot and grandma has to walk 100yds. Because I'm special.

You missed the part where I was set up and shooting when brake boy chose the bench immediately beside me to the left, with his only his spotter on the bench to HIS left...with 2 more open benches further left. Considerate, at minimum, would have been him selecting the bench to my left for his spotter with him shooting one bench left of that. Never mind that as the range got busier his spotter kept THEM waiting by taking up a spot.

A solution was arrived at. He left and I did NOTHING but keep shooting through the whole situation. Practise some courtesy when using a brake and others near you aren't, remember you aren't privileged, and life is good.

Enjoy yours good sir.
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Last edited by 270person; 10-13-2021 at 10:08 AM.
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  #52  
Old 10-13-2021, 10:31 AM
M.C. Gusto M.C. Gusto is offline
 
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Whats up with all the brakes on rifles these days? Im thinking its a fad. Who needs a break on a 6.5 CM hunting rifle? Who needs a break on a hunting rifle?
Last time i was at Genesee, everyone at the 100 m range had brakes, everyone. It's too much!
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  #53  
Old 10-13-2021, 11:00 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Originally Posted by M.C. Gusto View Post
Whats up with all the brakes on rifles these days? Im thinking its a fad. Who needs a break on a 6.5 CM hunting rifle? Who needs a break on a hunting rifle?
Last time i was at Genesee, everyone at the 100 m range had brakes, everyone. It's too much!
Just watch the hunting shows on Wild TV, many are just infomercials to sell you a special long range rifle with a brake and huge scope. And many people buy what they see other people using , because they think that if they have the right rifle and scope they are suddenly transformed into a long range precision shooter. I have heard several people remarking how their ears rang for hours after shooting a braked rifle without hearing protection while hunting. And then there are the people rushing to put on hearing protection as a game animal comes trotting by at close range.
I actually purchased two rifles with brakes, because I liked the rifles, but the brakes came off, and were replaced with thread protectors. If I had the option of buying the rifle without the brake, I would have done so, but it wasn't an option.
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  #54  
Old 10-13-2021, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by 270person View Post
Nice exaggerations. By your reasoning if I own a 1 ton dually it's ok to take up 2 stalls in the busiest part of the grocery store parking lot and grandma has to walk 100yds. Because I'm special.

You missed the part where I was set up and shooting when brake boy chose the bench immediately beside me to the left, with his only his spotter on the bench to HIS left...with 2 more open benches further left. Considerate, at minimum, would have been him selecting the bench to my left for his spotter with him shooting one bench left of that. Never mind that as the range got busier his spotter kept THEM waiting by taking up a spot.

A solution was arrived at. He left and I did NOTHING but keep shooting through the whole situation. Practise some courtesy when using a brake and others near you aren't, remember you aren't privileged, and life is good.

Enjoy yours good sir.
Hahahahaha, wow. That is quite the metaphor. Why didn't you just ask him to move over, nicely, with courtesy.. since you are so full of it. instead of playing your childish games.
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  #55  
Old 10-13-2021, 12:14 PM
calgarychef calgarychef is offline
 
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All I know is if you want to see a bunch of grown men become crybabies, put them at a gun range. The behaviour we all see is hilarious if it wasnít so pathetic.
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  #56  
Old 10-13-2021, 12:25 PM
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The range I go to we have barriers that are movable to hang up when someone uses a breaked rifle or a semi auto that spits brass.

LC
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  #57  
Old 10-13-2021, 12:36 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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All I know is if you want to see a bunch of grown men become crybabies, put them at a gun range. The behaviour we all see is hilarious if it wasnít so pathetic.
And yet go to a skeet or sporting clays field, and everyone gets along and has a great time.
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  #58  
Old 10-13-2021, 01:28 PM
JDK71 JDK71 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by eric2381 View Post
I sure enjoy having my own shooting bench and range at home. I donít have to deal with any members and their feelings. But when I used to shoot at a public range, Iíd avoid the week before hunting season, and usually would go at first light.
100% i have my own as well
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  #59  
Old 10-13-2021, 02:30 PM
PartTimeHunter PartTimeHunter is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Jims83cj5 View Post
So he is a paid member, you are not yet you admit messing him up, and your the one who is mad, right there is whatís wrong with the world. He had more right to be there than you did.
While what you say may be true - it doesn't mean that the jerk can be a jerk. What if the person beside him was a paid up member? Is that when the behavior becomes unacceptable?
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  #60  
Old 10-13-2021, 05:26 PM
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I have a 375h&h with a break and true while if your an observer itís very uncomfortable, it actually isnít half bad being the one behind the gun. I also have a sig716 in 308 that has the factory A2 birdcage flash hider and that is much more uncomfortable for the shooter than the braked 375.
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