Go Back   Alberta Outdoorsmen Forum > Main Category > Trapping Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-13-2021, 11:51 AM
Big Grey Wolf Big Grey Wolf is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,879
Default Wolves

An interesting note in ATA Presidents report that wolf numbers were way down in the four major Alberta caribou protection areas. My guess is the wolves have eaten their dinner (moose/elk and deer) and now many packs are short of food.
I did not cross a single wolf track on my trapline this winter.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-13-2021, 12:38 PM
Drewski Canuck Drewski Canuck is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,028
Default

The wolves are way down because alot of arial work has been done to keep the numbers way down.

The Bios have been flying from a location for the fourth year in a row all winter working to locate the packs, and then remove them.

I cannot substantiate the information from another source, but it seems that when there are no operations on Cold Lake Air Weapons Range, the crews have been allowed onto the base to do wolf reduction which has made a huge difference to the caribou numbers in the Amadeau and LLB areas.

Drewski
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-13-2021, 12:55 PM
Big Grey Wolf Big Grey Wolf is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,879
Default

Drewski, it would be positive that Bios are dealing with the Cold Lake packs. The numbers of wolves were also down in Grand Cache, Fox Creek, Athabasca and Manning areas.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-13-2021, 01:04 PM
Sooner Sooner is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 8,988
Default

I was very lucky to meet a HD mechanic who is also a trapper on an Ins claim I was doing for his neighbor's wheel Loader. Turns out he traps in a northern wmu that I have hunted for 20 plus years.

It has been great chatting with him about the area. He too told me there has been some serious work done by aerial means the last few winters to thin the packs. Quite ingenious too(no poison) but I won't say how. No need to give the antis any more info.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-14-2021, 08:19 PM
moose maniac moose maniac is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 964
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf View Post
Drewski, it would be positive that Bios are dealing with the Cold Lake packs. The numbers of wolves were also down in Grand Cache, Fox Creek, Athabasca and Manning areas.
Two years ago not many wolves on my line at all I caught two last year I caught 14 this year nothing again, overall definitely less than normal, my line is north of red earth
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-15-2021, 08:31 AM
Marty S Marty S is offline
AO Sponsor
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,238
Default

Now they just gotta go wipe out the black bears in the bogs that eat all the caribou calves on the calving grounds and there could be hope for the species.

Ain't gonna happen

So how 'bout opening a black bear for snare-trap trapping season, and no limit in the caribou zone.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-15-2021, 09:10 AM
st99 st99 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,541
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty S View Post
Now they just gotta go wipe out the black bears in the bogs that eat all the caribou calves on the calving grounds and there could be hope for the species.

Ain't gonna happen

So how 'bout opening a black bear for snare-trap trapping season, and no limit in the caribou zone.
Absolutely agree, if they were serious about saving the caribou, they would also include a cull on black and grizzly bear, along with stop logging. The last estimate is that they already over logged the caribou zone in Grande Cache and yet the companies keep on cutting. The government is just pretending to save face.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-15-2021, 05:09 PM
buckman buckman is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,257
Default

Less wolves in my areas also. They may have moved or starved to death,because the ungulates are very scarce right now.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-15-2021, 10:11 PM
TrapperMike TrapperMike is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alix
Posts: 769
Default

We canít forget those pesky ravens. Studies show the kill a large amount of calves.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-15-2021, 10:36 PM
Camdec's Avatar
Camdec Camdec is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 347
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty S View Post
Now they just gotta go wipe out the black bears in the bogs that eat all the caribou calves on the calving grounds and there could be hope for the species.

Ain't gonna happen

So how 'bout opening a black bear for snare-trap trapping season, and no limit in the caribou zone.
Exactly. Well put.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-16-2021, 09:55 PM
bushbug bushbug is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 104
Default

So wipe out one species to save another. This doesnt make sense to me.If the caribou are meant to survive they will.Besides the government has to cover up the total waste of time and money they have blown trying to save the caribou.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-16-2021, 10:19 PM
TrapperMike TrapperMike is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alix
Posts: 769
Default

Wipe out one species to save another. Disgusting. Oh isnít that what humans have done.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-17-2021, 10:08 AM
Torkdiesel's Avatar
Torkdiesel Torkdiesel is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: North of the Kakwa
Posts: 3,893
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bushbug View Post
So wipe out one species to save another. This doesnt make sense to me.If the caribou are meant to survive they will.Besides the government has to cover up the total waste of time and money they have blown trying to save the caribou.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapperMike View Post
Wipe out one species to save another. Disgusting. Oh isnít that what humans have done.
The inconvenient truth of it all is the wolves wonít actually wipe out the caribou, moose or elk anywhere, theyíll simply decimate those populations until thereís no food left, then the wolves will starve.
After the wolves starve out the ungulates will return and begin to flourish again until the wolves begin catching up population wise because they have ample food again.

This has been going on for thousands and thousands of years without interference from man, because he simply wasnít there to see it, kind of.
When the ungulate population dropped the small number of humans around simply moved to another area that had ungulates, they had no choice. It was that or starve to death.

Once you stand back and have a look at it from the outside in we have two choices right now. Ignore the natural cycles of predator/prey populations that have had highs and lows for tens of thousands of years without us, or manage predators to maximize ungulate numbers.

I for one want moose, caribou, elk and sheep numbers maximized because that benefits me, more ungulates generate more money.

That being said I also see the other side of the coin, ungulates might not matter to you.....
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-17-2021, 10:43 AM
Big Grey Wolf Big Grey Wolf is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,879
Default wolves

Tork, you are correct on the game/wolf cycles. My only problem is I do not have enough winters left to wait for the elk and moose numbers to rebound. Man changed the cycles in BC and Alberta in the 50's with rabies and knocked wolves way down. The moose numbers really went high in the 60's and 70's, so high we only charge Americans $25 for license and they did not need a guide.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-19-2021, 05:01 PM
Torkdiesel's Avatar
Torkdiesel Torkdiesel is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: North of the Kakwa
Posts: 3,893
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf View Post
Tork, you are correct on the game/wolf cycles. My only problem is I do not have enough winters left to wait for the elk and moose numbers to rebound. Man changed the cycles in BC and Alberta in the 50's with rabies and knocked wolves way down. The moose numbers really went high in the 60's and 70's, so high we only charge Americans $25 for license and they did not need a guide.
Weíre all in the same boat there BGW, Iím definitely on board for knocking the Wolf numbers way down again
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04-19-2021, 10:16 PM
marky_mark's Avatar
marky_mark marky_mark is online now
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,643
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapperMike View Post
Wipe out one species to save another. Disgusting. Oh isnít that what humans have done.
They will never be able to wipe out wolves
They survive
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-20-2021, 11:42 AM
Big Grey Wolf Big Grey Wolf is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,879
Default

Marky, they were almost wiped out in the 50's almost impossible to see one or find a track.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-22-2021, 09:37 AM
ForestCop ForestCop is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 6
Default GOA mandate

Along the Eastern Slopes from Hinton to Grande Prairie the GOA has been shooting wolves for over 10 years with some years being well over 100 wolves shot they think the tally stands around 1500 total; in addition to this the have had an active poisioning program for almost the same many years but apparently not this 2020-2021 year. If you want to be further disgusted about the poisioning program talk to locals from the communities and native settlements and you will find out there are many stories (to many to count) that the poisioning program starts with shooting a moose or elk and leaving it laced with strychnine; the locals have walked around these areas and find many other animals dead such as eagles, ravens owls, fox, coyote and bears. When presented with the evidence they are usually written off by the GOA expert biologists with a vague statement that they are aware that at times there are unfortunately incidental deaths to other wildlife. It's kind of curious to locals as well that when you figure out there have been maybe 1500 killed by helicopter (locals call them air wolf) plus poisioning where have all these animals come from as the packs have no ability for growth it is at least very curious.
Just start googling items like dead wolves Grande Cache or Alberta wolf cull.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04-22-2021, 04:34 PM
buckman buckman is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,257
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForestCop View Post
Along the Eastern Slopes from Hinton to Grande Prairie the GOA has been shooting wolves for over 10 years with some years being well over 100 wolves shot they think the tally stands around 1500 total; in addition to this the have had an active poisioning program for almost the same many years but apparently not this 2020-2021 year. If you want to be further disgusted about the poisioning program talk to locals from the communities and native settlements and you will find out there are many stories (to many to count) that the poisioning program starts with shooting a moose or elk and leaving it laced with strychnine; the locals have walked around these areas and find many other animals dead such as eagles, ravens owls, fox, coyote and bears. When presented with the evidence they are usually written off by the GOA expert biologists with a vague statement that they are aware that at times there are unfortunately incidental deaths to other wildlife. It's kind of curious to locals as well that when you figure out there have been maybe 1500 killed by helicopter (locals call them air wolf) plus poisioning where have all these animals come from as the packs have no ability for growth it is at least very curious.
Just start googling items like dead wolves Grande Cache or Alberta wolf cull.
Where did you get this info,I would like to see it in print?
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04-22-2021, 06:34 PM
sourdough doug sourdough doug is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: northern AB
Posts: 2,071
Default

I would be one of the last, who would like to see the demise of any species but at the end of the day, if the caribou cannot adapt, then let it be and go the route of the dodo bird..I don't say they are dumb but have watched then in the wild and as I see it ....well...good money after bad being pi$$d against a hot brick wall....it stinks..
__________________
Beer is proof that God loves us
and wants us to be happy
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 04-23-2021, 08:59 AM
ForestCop ForestCop is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 6
Default Wolf Cull

Hey Buckman just google wolf cull Grande Cache Alberta lots of articles come up.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 04-23-2021, 12:06 PM
Flight01's Avatar
Flight01 Flight01 is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Fort McMurray, AB
Posts: 2,491
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bushbug View Post
So wipe out one species to save another. This doesnt make sense to me.If the caribou are meant to survive they will.Besides the government has to cover up the total waste of time and money they have blown trying to save the caribou.
No one will wipe out black bears. Population control is required though to help ungulates and even the caribou specifically.
Wolf numbers are down but far from wiped out...
wolves and bears arenít why the caribou are in trouble but controlling their numbers will help the caribou stabilize and hopefully recover.
Bottom line is human encroachment (mines/logging/oil and gas lines) sucks for caribou but other ungulates donít seem to mind it and even thrive.

Only had a single wolf track through one of my bait stations this winter. Got a couple coyotes and fox but no wolves.

Closest Iíve seen caribou to my line is about 20km, south of me. They donít come into the line but Iím sure the wolves move through the range.

Wolf numbers being down is a start. Black bear numbers can come down for sure.
If I had someone to gift 6 hides to each year Iíd do it one year and re asses the following year. Right now I take only one a year as a hunter . Anyone want a gifted hide? How about 6?
__________________
Be sure of your target and what lies beyond.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 04-23-2021, 12:09 PM
Flight01's Avatar
Flight01 Flight01 is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Fort McMurray, AB
Posts: 2,491
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf View Post
Marky, they were almost wiped out in the 50's almost impossible to see one or find a track.
I do not agree with poison. Get more trappers , resident hunters and non-residents hunting for a bounty.
Poison damn near wiped out a lot more than wolves
__________________
Be sure of your target and what lies beyond.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 04-24-2021, 08:40 AM
buckman buckman is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,257
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForestCop View Post
Hey Buckman just google wolf cull Grande Cache Alberta lots of articles come up.
Will do thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 04-24-2021, 10:40 AM
sourdough doug sourdough doug is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: northern AB
Posts: 2,071
Default

Wouldn't it be cheaper to do away with the caribou..???...
__________________
Beer is proof that God loves us
and wants us to be happy
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 04-24-2021, 09:34 PM
Torkdiesel's Avatar
Torkdiesel Torkdiesel is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: North of the Kakwa
Posts: 3,893
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flight01 View Post
No one will wipe out black bears. Population control is required though to help ungulates and even the caribou specifically.
Wolf numbers are down but far from wiped out...
wolves and bears arenít why the caribou are in trouble but controlling their numbers will help the caribou stabilize and hopefully recover.
Bottom line is human encroachment (mines/logging/oil and gas lines) sucks for caribou but other ungulates donít seem to mind it and even thrive.

Only had a single wolf track through one of my bait stations this winter. Got a couple coyotes and fox but no wolves.

Closest Iíve seen caribou to my line is about 20km, south of me. They donít come into the line but Iím sure the wolves move through the range.

Wolf numbers being down is a start. Black bear numbers can come down for sure.
If I had someone to gift 6 hides to each year Iíd do it one year and re asses the following year. Right now I take only one a year as a hunter . Anyone want a gifted hide? How about 6?
Wolves and bears are exactly why caribou are in trouble. The Wolf population might be high do to moose doing well, but theyíre hurting the caribou now !

I have zero roads, zero pipelines, zero mining, yet my caribou numbers are falling just like everywhere else.
We kill 3-4 bulls per year, no resident has killed one of our caribou in the last 20 years.
So if itís not predators and only human encroachment why are our caribou following the exact same trends as all other caribou herds in Alberta/BC ?
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 04-25-2021, 12:33 AM
thumper's Avatar
thumper thumper is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Canmore
Posts: 4,250
Default

Caribou are a relic Ice Age animal that have just managed to hang on longer than mammoths, sloth bears and others. No matter what we do, or don't do - they're doomed to slow extirpation, just like other ice age animals before them. Wolves are Ice Age survivors.
__________________
The world is changed by your action, not by your opinion.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 04-25-2021, 07:16 AM
Talking moose's Avatar
Talking moose Talking moose is online now
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: McBride/Prince George
Posts: 13,140
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thumper View Post
Caribou are a relic Ice Age animal that have just managed to hang on longer than mammoths, sloth bears and others. No matter what we do, or don't do - they're doomed to slow extirpation, just like other ice age animals before them. Wolves are Ice Age survivors.
Agreed to an extent. Wolves however are able to adapt easier with less specific requirements. Caribou are such a niche animal. They canít deal with any sort of change very well.
Moose seem to adapt well. From the Arctic to the muskeg boreal bogs, to the flat prairies of the south.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 04-25-2021, 09:08 AM
thumper's Avatar
thumper thumper is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Canmore
Posts: 4,250
Default

Caribou survival strategy is to congregate in large herds, and drop their young all at once. This explosion of food overwhelms local predators for a very short period of time, and enough calves make it through to move on and perpetuate the herds. Once that critical mass of caribou herds is lost, this strategy fails. It's just a matter of time for our southern caribou herds, and sadly, the great northern herds are losing that critical mass as well. IMO
__________________
The world is changed by your action, not by your opinion.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 04-25-2021, 09:53 AM
sourdough doug sourdough doug is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: northern AB
Posts: 2,071
Default Just saying

Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdough doug View Post
I would be one of the last, who would like to see the demise of any species but at the end of the day, if the caribou cannot adapt, then let it be and go the route of the dodo bird..I don't say they are dumb but have watched then in the wild and as I see it ....well...good money after bad being pi$$d against a hot brick wall....it stinks..
Quote:
Originally Posted by thumper View Post
Caribou are a relic Ice Age animal that have just managed to hang on longer than mammoths, sloth bears and others. No matter what we do, or don't do - they're doomed to slow extirpation, just like other ice age animals before them. Wolves are Ice Age survivors.
Just another way of stating a truth.....
__________________
Beer is proof that God loves us
and wants us to be happy
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.