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  #31  
Old 10-13-2021, 10:16 AM
Z7Extreme Z7Extreme is offline
 
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I spend quite a bit of time in the river valley as well and I get hammered by these little buggers every year. The bites last about 2-3 weeks and are super itchy. I have narrowed it down to the swamp grass as to where they like to be. Thanks for this thread, I'm going to look into that permethrin. Its been a few years since my first encounter so I have experienced quite a few bites over the years and so far I haven't seemed to contract anything from them.
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  #32  
Old 10-13-2021, 12:32 PM
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onetreeman onetreeman is offline
 
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Default Sentry Flea and Tick Spray for Dogs

I've used this in the spring while hunting Turkeys in BC. Sprayed it on all my hunting outer layers and let dry prior to heading out.

Cost is under $20 depending where you go to get it.

Contains:

0.05% PERMETHRIN
0.05% PYRETHRIN

Tested it by pulling ticks off my buddy's clothes (he did not use it) and placing them on mine. The ticks immediately raised their legs up and let go of the clothing and fell off. Unscientific testing, however since I started using it I have not had any problems with ticks.

https://www.petland.ca/products/sent...spray-for-dogs
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  #33  
Old 10-13-2021, 02:53 PM
fishnguy fishnguy is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moose maniac View Post
Peavy mart in peace has 10 litre jugs of cattle back rub I think it’s called it has permethrin in it only issue is it’s mixed with mineral oil
Most likely oil based. All of the ones I saw so far for “heavy duty” are oil based.
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  #34  
Old 10-13-2021, 02:58 PM
fishnguy fishnguy is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coiloil37 View Post
5% permethrin available at peavy mart

https://www.peaveymart.com/animal-eq...cticide/222169


And again cheaper here.

https://www.syrvetcanada.ca/en/boss-...00-ml-mk056759

Idk if it’s oil or water based though. I’m not looking for tick repellent so I’ll leave some of that to you.
Those are oil based as well, I think. Would still have to be shipped though.



Also, Peavy Mart doesn’t have it, at least here. The other one you need a license to buy. Likely the same thing everywhere else they sell it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coiloil37 View Post
This is supposed to be .5% too and ready to spray.

https://www.sasonline.ca/mosquito-sh...tment-002.html
I will look into that one further. Thanks.
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  #35  
Old 10-13-2021, 03:00 PM
fishnguy fishnguy is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z7Extreme View Post
I spend quite a bit of time in the river valley as well and I get hammered by these little buggers every year. The bites last about 2-3 weeks and are super itchy. I have narrowed it down to the swamp grass as to where they like to be. Thanks for this thread, I'm going to look into that permethrin. Its been a few years since my first encounter so I have experienced quite a few bites over the years and so far I haven't seemed to contract anything from them.
The only good thing about them is they don’t carry any wacky disease that they can pass on to peoplekind. That’s the only good thing though, lol.

I had been itching for a month last year. We will see how this year will pan out.
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  #36  
Old 10-13-2021, 03:23 PM
fishnguy fishnguy is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onetreeman View Post
I've used this in the spring while hunting Turkeys in BC. Sprayed it on all my hunting outer layers and let dry prior to heading out.

Cost is under $20 depending where you go to get it.

Contains:

0.05% PERMETHRIN
0.05% PYRETHRIN

Tested it by pulling ticks off my buddy's clothes (he did not use it) and placing them on mine. The ticks immediately raised their legs up and let go of the clothing and fell off. Unscientific testing, however since I started using it I have not had any problems with ticks.

https://www.petland.ca/products/sent...spray-for-dogs
Good to know.

The Sawyer spray for human use they sell in the US has permethrin concentration of 0.5%. The one you used appears to be 10 times “weaker”. Good news is you say it still appears to be working.

I stopped by all (I think) the stores in town that can carry some tick sprays. So far, I found these:



^ 8 bucks at walmart. Permethrin concentration 0.25%. Says not to spray on animals.



^ 29 (I think) bucks at Peavey Mart. Permethrin concentration of 0.80% (!). Also says not to spray on animals.



^ 29 bucks at the pet store and 20 at Peavey Mart, lol. Can spray on animals but contains no permethrin.

So I have been thinking… If I can spray it on my couch and then sit on it for a couple of hours or longer with only my lucky gonch on in the middle of the hot summer evening, I should be fine spraying on my outer layer clothing and wearing it for a few days or a couple of weeks during the hunting season, no? The only problem is that it is still a little too warm midday for layers, hmm…

Leaning toward that 8-dollar bottle from walmart at the moment. Or even that 0.8% stuff from Peavey Mart. Need to look into what other nasty ingredients they may in them. The third one I think is out because there is no permethrin in it, but I may look into the active ingredients further.

Almost bought two Sawyer sprays from cabela’s yesterday, but then noticed there is a “shipping restriction” note there, but it gets me all the way to the credit card screen. Was going to try anyway, but don’t feel like dealing with potential refunds (because I know from personal experience they can screw it up badly). There a couple of other things I would buy from there if I knew these sprays would not be a problem.

P. S. I wonder if this is how a guy trying to score some ivermectin feels. Hahaha.
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  #37  
Old 10-13-2021, 11:54 PM
fishnguy fishnguy is offline
 
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Ok, I am back, lol.

So… I did some more reading and went and bought the 20-dollar bottle at Peavy Mart that you spray directly on dogs and cats. The active ingredient in it is pyrethrins, which is the mix of natural chemicals extracted from chrysanthemum flowers. Apparently, this is what permethrin is based on. In other words, the smart people looked at pyrethrins and made a synthetic, more stable version of it and called it permethrin. An interesting aspect, however, according to technical data, pyrethrins have more cautions on the data sheet, including more potential allergic reactions, skin irritation, etc. At least I thought it was interesting. Another interesting thing to note, while permethrin, while wet, can be deadly to cats (apparently their bodies can’t “process” it fast enough, so higher concentrations can actually kill them), the “natural” ish I bought can be sprayed directly on them. Go figure. Both impact aquatic life in very negative ways. From my brief overview of the subject, I understand it affects the nervous system of fish (same is true for cats).

Also, permethrin is pretty much insoluble in water, which I suspect is why all that horse and cattle stuff is all oil based. This also made me think about “diluting” the higher concentration stuff in water. Hmm…

Anyway, I also looked at the reviews of Zodiac Flee and Tick Spray for Dogs and Cats (which is the one I bought) and they seem to be pretty good. There were even some left by hunters saying they spray their dogs and themselves and almost never get ticks as opposed to their hunting buddies who do all the time, etc. I very much doubt, however, that many or any of them ran into what some of us experienced though, lol. Also, all this “evidence” is anecdotal, if you like. BUT! I mentioned earlier, I still have some ticks crawling around.



(Insert maniacal laughter)

So on we go to experiments! Hahaha (more maniacal laughter).

I caught four of the little buggers with a paper towel. I sprayed three of them directly and placed the forth on the wet spot (cardboard I sprayed the paper towel on). Some time later all four died. The ones I sprayed directly slowed down noticeably and almost immediately. They were also first to expire. The one crawling around on the wet spot died too, but it took some time, maybe 20-30 minutes. It didn’t cover much distance though, maybe three quarters of an inch, an inch tops.

Up next, placing them on the previously sprayed paper towel that air dried and, hopefully, finding them dead some (not long) time later.

Sometimes, it is quite handy to have ticks readily available at your disposal. Laughing maniacally, again, lol.

Can’t say I am satisfied with the speed they expire, to be honest. I have a feeling, the next part of the experiment won’t produce good results. I guess, we will see.

Thinking of buying the other spray from Peavey Mart, the upholstery one with 0.8% permethrin concentration for $30, and performing the same set of experiments. I think that’s what I will do if the next stage with the current spray fails.

Edit: another thing to note, all these sprays have methoprene which is a hormone that regulates growth (it doesn’t let the egg or larvae develop further). Would be nice to do without.

Last edited by fishnguy; 10-14-2021 at 12:15 AM.
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  #38  
Old 10-14-2021, 12:35 AM
fishnguy fishnguy is offline
 
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We have three more participants in on what appears to be dry to touch paper towel.



They don’t seem to like it. We will see what happens.
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  #39  
Old 10-14-2021, 01:16 AM
fishnguy fishnguy is offline
 
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Unexpected turn of events. Well, for me anyway. About 40 minutes later, all 3 participants are dead. Should have checked earlier… I was fairly certain it won’t work. All are also in about the same spot where they were to begins with.

The experiment will resume tomorrow evening on the same piece of paper towel.
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  #40  
Old 10-14-2021, 09:28 AM
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North40Rules North40Rules is online now
 
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Default Nasty Critters

A few years ago I was bear hunting in a stand of oak trees and when I walked out my clothes were covered in them. When I got home I immediately undressed and did a complete inspection, one was attached to my private area, gross!

When I got the bear I was hunting, I skinned him out, put his hide in a bag, and took him to my taxidermist the next day. When I opened the bag at his facility many hundreds of them were crawling all over his hide. I almost threw up and could not even bring myself to eat the meat because I was afraid of getting Lime Disease.

Ever since then when I am hunting I always wear my socks over my pants and tape my socks to my pants, a simple solution but it does seem to work.

Ticks are nasty and disgusting!
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  #41  
Old 10-14-2021, 11:14 AM
lambski lambski is offline
 
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Default Tickless

Speaking for myself I can honestly say that ive never even noticed a tick in the woods and I spend a lot of time outdoors.
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  #42  
Old 10-14-2021, 12:06 PM
fishnguy fishnguy is offline
 
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^ Before last year, I haven’t seen a tick since I was about 12 years old, or younger even

Dropped another bugger on the paper towel and it is dead. I am going to bring some inside the house and see if the warmer temperature makes any difference.
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  #43  
Old 10-14-2021, 12:56 PM
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tri777 tri777 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishnguy View Post
Unexpected turn of events. Well, for me anyway. About 40 minutes later, all 3 participants are dead.
Should have checked earlier… I was fairly certain it won’t work. All are also in about the same spot w
here they were to begins with.

The experiment will resume tomorrow evening on the same piece of paper towel.



Love these tests you are doing !!
Try some gas mixed with a bit of oil (so it doesn't evaporate quickly), I'm curious..if I had access to
ticks I would be trying all sorts of things, lol.
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  #44  
Old 10-14-2021, 01:47 PM
fishnguy fishnguy is offline
 
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^ Haha. I can take you where I can guarantee you would pick some up, tri. You will be able to experiment a lot, lol. Drive up for a walk!

I am just trying to figure out how to keep them off me because it doesn’t look like I can (or don't want to) keep off the places where I pick them up. Maybe it will help someone else along the way. Or not, lol. I will be happy if they fall off me or (maybe better yet) die few minutes after catching a ride.
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  #45  
Old 10-14-2021, 02:31 PM
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tri777 tri777 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishnguy View Post
^ Haha. I can take you where I can guarantee you would pick some up, tri. You will be able to experiment a lot, lol. Drive up for a walk!

I am just trying to figure out how to keep them off me because it doesn’t look like I can (or don't want to) keep off the places where I pick them up. Maybe it will help someone else along the way. Or not, lol. I will be happy if they fall off me or (maybe better yet) die few minutes after catching a ride.
What about getting one of those cheap electric fly swatters from a dollar store, getting some fine mesh steel
screen, cutting out pattern & solder onto swatter screen.. use while walking in bush as a gentle bat in front of
you, if some of the devils get on you, press button/zap'em ?(perhaps modify battery compartment for
a 9V battery instead of the 2AA's)

https://www.amazon.com/Electric-Swat...239300&sr=8-45

Last edited by tri777; 10-14-2021 at 02:38 PM.
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  #46  
Old 10-14-2021, 05:05 PM
fishnguy fishnguy is offline
 
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Beside being impractical, I don’t think that’s going to work very well. They cover you chest down. Maybe on the head too, but I never looked. Also, they are tiny. On this pic, it actually looks bigger than it really is:



The tick is that dot next to the match. Maybe if they were all holding hands, lol.

Also, imagine a guy walking the bush with that thing in one hand and a rifle in the other
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  #47  
Old 10-15-2021, 12:49 AM
fishnguy fishnguy is offline
 
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Well, it appears there have been a bit of a disappointing drawback in my experiment. I threw three more individuals on the paper towel from yesterday and watched them for about 10 minutes or so. Two definitely didn't like the experience and kept trying to “stand up” on their back legs. One was kind of not here not there. I couldn't check earlier, but about an hour later two were dead and one still kept moving, but definitely appeared to be severely incapacitated.

So I shook them off and went to get the next set of participants. To my great disappointment, it was hard to find any that were still alive and substantially active. I mean there are a few, but I wouldn’t feel comfortable with the results because I wouldn’t know if it was the paper or they just died. It looks like it was their time to expire “naturally”, be it low humidity, being outside of their habitat, or whatever reason, I don’t know. Can’t even say if the spray still worked 24 hours later or not because those on it may have died just like all others did. Womp womp.



At least for now, lol.

I guess the plan is to spray my clothing with this stuff the evening before heading out in the morning (or spray in the morning if I am heading out later in the day) and see what happens. Worst comes to worst, I will get another sample to experiment with, maybe with that upholstery spray from Peavey Mart and see if that one works better.
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  #48  
Old 10-15-2021, 11:43 AM
graybeard graybeard is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishnguy View Post
^ Before last year, I haven’t seen a tick since I was about 12 years old, or younger even

Dropped another bugger on the paper towel and it is dead. I am going to bring some inside the house and see if the warmer temperature makes any difference.
I tip my hat to fishnguy as you have done a lot of research on ticks....
I am glad to see you educating others.

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showt...ighlight=ticks

The downside of the ticks is the Lymes disease it can cause...

Just search ticks and/or lymes and the information available will make you sit up and take note.

Good luck and thanks again fishnguy and everyone else who have contributed.....

Cheers,
GB
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  #49  
Old 10-16-2021, 04:08 PM
Ticdoc Ticdoc is offline
 
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Fishnguy and I discussed this a lot last year. No easy answers. Firstly though, some comments on this thread do not deal with the winter tick (also called moose tick) because this tick does not get on deer, moose, etc, humans in late winter-spring-summer. But, as I mentioned last year, the Peace River country is without doubt the hot spot for winter ticks in Alberta, but we found in our extensive research that virtually every moose, elk or deer get reinfested every autumn into early Nov. of their life. They are tick-free in summer. The aspen parkland ecotone of central Alberta is another hot spot, so 936 has all the host and vegetation ingredients. But humans getting larval stage winter ticks on them in Sept-Oct is a relatively new thing. Die-offs of moose covered with winter ticks over winter was common during my studies (1980 into the year 2000) so why not now in those places where you hunters are getting infested. Do not know, but winter ticks are causing problems for moose through moose range in North America and killing thousands of moose, mainly calves almost yearly in places like New Hampshire and Maine. And moose numbers have decreased significantly in Minnesota and southern Manitoba with winter ticks seeming to play a large role. I published a book that is not very technical called White as a Ghose; Winter Ticks and Moose, published by Nature Alberta, Edmonton, AB. Very inexpensive and I do not make a dime. Lots of photos. If you need more info on how to get it, etc, I am on Facebook ....Bill Samuel. Send me private message and I will converse in email. Good luck folks.
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  #50  
Old 10-16-2021, 11:36 PM
dgl1948 dgl1948 is offline
 
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Military uses permethrin on clothing and sleeping bags when they are in countries that have crawling creatures.
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  #51  
Old 10-17-2021, 01:02 AM
fishnguy fishnguy is offline
 
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^ They do. I find it kind of weird that we can’t here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ticdoc View Post
Fishnguy and I discussed this a lot last year. No easy answers. Firstly though, some comments on this thread do not deal with the winter tick (also called moose tick) because this tick does not get on deer, moose, etc, humans in late winter-spring-summer. But, as I mentioned last year, the Peace River country is without doubt the hot spot for winter ticks in Alberta, but we found in our extensive research that virtually every moose, elk or deer get reinfested every autumn into early Nov. of their life. They are tick-free in summer. The aspen parkland ecotone of central Alberta is another hot spot, so 936 has all the host and vegetation ingredients. But humans getting larval stage winter ticks on them in Sept-Oct is a relatively new thing. Die-offs of moose covered with winter ticks over winter was common during my studies (1980 into the year 2000) so why not now in those places where you hunters are getting infested. Do not know, but winter ticks are causing problems for moose through moose range in North America and killing thousands of moose, mainly calves almost yearly in places like New Hampshire and Maine. And moose numbers have decreased significantly in Minnesota and southern Manitoba with winter ticks seeming to play a large role. I published a book that is not very technical called White as a Ghose; Winter Ticks and Moose, published by Nature Alberta, Edmonton, AB. Very inexpensive and I do not make a dime. Lots of photos. If you need more info on how to get it, etc, I am on Facebook ....Bill Samuel. Send me private message and I will converse in email. Good luck folks.
Thank you for chiming in, Bill. I am itching again this year, haha.

I will shoot you an email in the next couple of days.
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  #52  
Old 10-18-2021, 04:11 PM
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Moosetalker Moosetalker is offline
 
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Dr Doom spray has Permethrin as an active ingredient.
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  #53  
Old 11-04-2021, 06:07 PM
350 mag 350 mag is offline
 
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Thanks for this thread...

Pretty sure these are same ticks we have in Sask....they were horrible in the Porcupine Hills this year.
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