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  #31  
Old 08-14-2021, 12:33 PM
viesturs viesturs is offline
 
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Unless your a buddy of his he's an absolute sheisster.
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  #32  
Old 08-14-2021, 06:33 PM
teberle teberle is offline
 
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Originally Posted by kevin2053 View Post
Sorry, everyone, I see this situation from a different view. Many of you won't like what I have to say. I typically shy away from controversial armchair internet chatter, but I cant help myself on this one.

I have to preface this by saying it's not personal, and I have known Lawrence for a long time. He might actually agree with some of my words.

I have managed or worked in 5 different archery stores starting in 1987, and can say that working in the industry, there are many things wrong with supporting a "fella" working from his garage.

Simply, Lawrence should have to open a bonafide pro shop before purchasing and selling any archery products to customers. He should have to assume the same risks as others who have dedicated their personal savings to building a shop, employing staffing who depend on wages for a living, and offer a facility that will grow the community as a whole.

Lawrence's reputation is intact in this geographical area; however, if I was still in the archery business and made the above sacrifices owning a pro-shop in this climate, I would see that his ability to buy and sell goods was challenged. The idea that he can offer the same products as "Jimbows" (PSE and Black Gold) undermines the essence of owning a true pro-shop, along with making all the sacrifices as a business owner. This is why archery pro shops come and go in the capital area.

Not for one second should this announcement be celebrated... sorry.

Go ahead and get mad at my words. At the same time, go get your broadheads from AliExpress, then ponder why you have nowhere to shoot your bow this winter after hunting season. The practice of backyard pros may work in other industries; however, in the archery industry, it is fatal to people trying to make a living at it.

PS. Brendan's dad...love ya. Just don't agree.

K
How interesting though that a guy can make it work out of his garage with no store front, no range, no presence on Google, etc. I suspect it has something to do with all the 'nobody but him touches my bow' and similar statements that can be found on this very thread. Perhaps the "bona fide pro shops" should take a page from his book and provide an actual professional-level service, consistently. If they did that, there would be no way a "fella working from his garage" could compete with them. But they don't, at least not in my experience, and I know there are many who have had similar experiences.

Last edited by teberle; 08-14-2021 at 06:55 PM.
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  #33  
Old 08-14-2021, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by kevin2053 View Post
Sorry, everyone, I see this situation from a different view. Many of you won't like what I have to say. I typically shy away from controversial armchair internet chatter, but I cant help myself on this one.

I have to preface this by saying it's not personal, and I have known Lawrence for a long time. He might actually agree with some of my words.

I have managed or worked in 5 different archery stores starting in 1987, and can say that working in the industry, there are many things wrong with supporting a "fella" working from his garage.

Simply, Lawrence should have to open a bonafide pro shop before purchasing and selling any archery products to customers. He should have to assume the same risks as others who have dedicated their personal savings to building a shop, employing staffing who depend on wages for a living, and offer a facility that will grow the community as a whole.

Lawrence's reputation is intact in this geographical area; however, if I was still in the archery business and made the above sacrifices owning a pro-shop in this climate, I would see that his ability to buy and sell goods was challenged. The idea that he can offer the same products as "Jimbows" (PSE and Black Gold) undermines the essence of owning a true pro-shop, along with making all the sacrifices as a business owner. This is why archery pro shops come and go in the capital area.

Not for one second should this announcement be celebrated... sorry.

Go ahead and get mad at my words. At the same time, go get your broadheads from AliExpress, then ponder why you have nowhere to shoot your bow this winter after hunting season. The practice of backyard pros may work in other industries; however, in the archery industry, it is fatal to people trying to make a living at it.

PS. Brendan's dad...love ya. Just don't agree.

K
Jealousy isn't a good look.
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  #34  
Old 08-15-2021, 12:30 AM
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Jealousy isn't a good look.
If you knew Kevin, you'd know he has nothing to be jealous of.
Like ZERO.

And the man has a very valid point.
Working on bows out of your garage is one thing. Being a distributor and sales rep is another. I can't believe any of the big brands allow it.
Or maybe they just don't know...
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  #35  
Old 08-16-2021, 04:07 PM
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So lets get this straight. Look at how many years did Lawrence operated out of the shop at Alberta Beach (without an indoor range I might add). This was done at the same time as the city shops were also providing equipment and service(plus a place to shoot). He didn't put anyone out of business that wasn't already going in that direction. So now he has a different arrangement and his previous clients have predictably followed him. Lawrence earned their loyalty. I would drive two hours one way to get to him at his previous location. Now he is closer. Everybody still gets a piece of the pie.
Perfect.
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  #36  
Old 08-16-2021, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by CBintheNorth View Post
If you knew Kevin, you'd know he has nothing to be jealous of.
Like ZERO.

And the man has a very valid point.
Working on bows out of your garage is one thing. Being a distributor and sales rep is another. I can't believe any of the big brands allow it.
Or maybe they just don't know...
Forgive me if this is a horribly ignorant question, but why would the big brands NOT allow it?
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  #37  
Old 08-16-2021, 09:12 PM
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Well I am not a bow hunter but I do know Lawrence and knew him long before he was in the archery business.
I do know this about Lawrence, he is a business man first and foremost, meaning he knows how to run a business. He knows what hoops you have to jump through.
If he is selling a product out of his garage it is because he has connections in the industry and knows what he is doing and itís not because he got lucky, or faked his way into it. He does his homework .

Lots of people run a business from their garage or home office. Yes it cuts back on overhead but you still have to know what you are doing and who you customer base is. I suspect he is more in tune with his customers than most of his competitors and because of that they will keep supporting him.
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  #38  
Old 08-17-2021, 07:20 PM
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Last gunsmith I patronized works out of a dilapidated garage on his farm in central Alberta. Guy made a piece of rebar into a match shooting barrel. I didnít hold his location against him.

Donít think I will hold Lawrenceís location against him either.

Wonít hold Swamp Donkey Outdoors location against him either.

Kinda makes me think Lawrence is ahead of the curve.
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  #39  
Old 08-18-2021, 10:17 AM
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I have run my business out of my home for the last 9 years. Anyone that thinks I would be more credible or successful if I rented an office downtown is seriously deluded and knows nothing about business. Overhead is your enemy when you are in business. Everything you can do to cut back your overhead is good for your bottom line, and helps you survive if business gets really slow. Luckily I have been just even busier over Covid than I was before, but that sure isn't true for a lot of people. I don't know Lawrence but from what I have read he is a quality guy, excellent at what he does, and he clearly understands business a whole bunch better than many posting on here. Just for comparison, Clay and Prophet River started out in a Garage.
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  #40  
Old 08-18-2021, 02:36 PM
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So lets get this straight. Look at how many years did Lawrence operated out of the shop at Alberta Beach (without an indoor range I might add).
Just a correction - He did have an indoor range at the shop in Alberta Beach - at the very least on par with what Cabelas has.
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  #41  
Old 08-18-2021, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Dean2 View Post
I have run my business out of my home for the last 9 years. Anyone that thinks I would be more credible or successful if I rented an office downtown is seriously deluded and knows nothing about business. Overhead is your enemy when you are in business. Everything you can do to cut back your overhead is good for your bottom line, and helps you survive if business gets really slow. Luckily I have been just even busier over Covid than I was before, but that sure isn't true for a lot of people. I don't know Lawrence but from what I have read he is a quality guy, excellent at what he does, and he clearly understands business a whole bunch better than many posting on here. Just for comparison, Clay and Prophet River started out in a Garage.
There is nothing wrong with someone running a service-based business out of their home as long as all municipal/county rules are followed.
What I take issue with is when people go to a B&M shop full of inventory in order to see, touch, and feel what they like, but then go and order it from a guy operating in his garage because it's $100 less.
That's not understanding business, that's knowing how to screw over other businesses, and it shouldn't be supported if we want any B&M shops left.
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  #42  
Old 08-18-2021, 11:52 PM
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Forgive me if this is a horribly ignorant question, but why would the big brands NOT allow it?
This ties in slightly with my post above.
Wholesalers know where their volume is sold. Guys like Lawrence will never sell the volume Jimbows or Cabelas do.
The last thing these big wholesalers want is companies selling their wares to go under, so they support them however they can.
Same mentality as OEM's getting way better pricing than an end user; OEM's making a profit will push their suppliers wares for them and in return, the supplier takes care of and protects their high volume re-sellers.
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  #43  
Old 08-19-2021, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by CBintheNorth View Post
There is nothing wrong with someone running a service-based business out of their home as long as all municipal/county rules are followed.
What I take issue with is when people go to a B&M shop full of inventory in order to see, touch, and feel what they like, but then go and order it from a guy operating in his garage because it's $100 less.
That's not understanding business, that's knowing how to screw over other businesses, and it shouldn't be supported if we want any B&M shops left.

How is that any different than customers going into a physical store to see, touch and try stuff on, then ordering it online because it is 10-30% cheaper. To me that is a pretty weak argument. On top of that, I was getting that Lawrence actually had a pretty large selection to look at, I know Swamp Donkey does.
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  #44  
Old 08-19-2021, 10:26 AM
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How is that any different than customers going into a physical store to see, touch and try stuff on, then ordering it online because it is 10-30% cheaper. To me that is a pretty weak argument. On top of that, I was getting that Lawrence actually had a pretty large selection to look at, I know Swamp Donkey does.
I suppose if you are okay with everything going to online shopping only, yes, that would be a weak argument.
However I am not. There are some things I need to physically see, touch, and try, before I buy it.
I have no idea what Lawrence has in his garage, my comment was more general.

It's actually really funny that you bring up Swamp Donkey. Martin (I think that was his name) was the first one to tell me that I should walk into Sherwood Park Archery, see what I liked, and then let him know so he could bring it in. He offered to beat them by 10%.
I wound up buying a used bow later that year.
Thanks for the reminder.

When all the shops are gone and only Amazon is left, everyone will complain.
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  #45  
Old 08-19-2021, 10:34 AM
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The reason people patronize retailers like Lawrence are because of the quality of the service. Many will happily buy a bow from him, even if it's not at volume pricing, knowing that it will be properly set up for them.
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  #46  
Old 08-19-2021, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Stinky Buffalo View Post
The reason people patronize retailers like Lawrence are because of the quality of the service. Many will happily buy a bow from him, even if it's not at volume pricing, knowing that it will be properly set up for them.
And that's great. I have no problem with people offering great service in any location. The more the better.
Where I take exception is when these little outfits exploit brick-and-mortar shops to their advantage. It's not conscionable business in my opinion.
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  #47  
Old 08-19-2021, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by CBintheNorth View Post
I suppose if you are okay with everything going to online shopping only, yes, that would be a weak argument.
However I am not. There are some things I need to physically see, touch, and try, before I buy it.
I have no idea what Lawrence has in his garage, my comment was more general.

It's actually really funny that you bring up Swamp Donkey. Martin (I think that was his name) was the first one to tell me that I should walk into Sherwood Park Archery, see what I liked, and then let him know so he could bring it in. He offered to beat them by 10%.
I wound up buying a used bow later that year.
Thanks for the reminder.

When all the shops are gone and only Amazon is left, everyone will complain.

Fair point, I too try to only buy from bricks and mortar stores. I only use online as a very last resort if I can't find it in the store. Problem is, people like us are a shrinking percentage. However, Amazon has announced it is opening some mega stores around the U.S. Won't help the individually owned stores, will be as hard on them as Walmart is, but at least bricks and mortar may not die completely.
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  #48  
Old 08-19-2021, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Stinky Buffalo View Post
The reason people patronize retailers like Lawrence are because of the quality of the service. Many will happily buy a bow from him, even if it's not at volume pricing, knowing that it will be properly set up for them.
Yep. As I suggested earlier, it's hard to see how working out of a garage could be anything but a disadvantage as far as customer traffic goes, and presumably the only reason it works for him is that he is known to provide a level of service that can't be found at the pro shops.

As far as pricing goes, from what I can tell, he's not undercutting anyone.
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  #49  
Old 08-23-2021, 12:15 PM
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Yep. As I suggested earlier, it's hard to see how working out of a garage could be anything but a disadvantage as far as customer traffic goes, and presumably the only reason it works for him is that he is known to provide a level of service that can't be found at the pro shops.

As far as pricing goes, from what I can tell, he's not undercutting anyone.
Lawrence's pricing is right on par with Jimbows. In some cases it is a little less and in other cases a little more.

Jimbows pricing does need to factor in more overhead, but also they are most likely getting a better price from the distributor due to the volume of product being purchase. I am sure this is why all products are purchased by the Calgary location and then shipped to Edmonton.

Lawrence has a shop at his residence where he books clients and sells products and a fair market value. I am not sure how renting or owning a building away from his residence would make him a more legitimate business owner. Also being a small outfit he doesn't really need an employee other than himself, and to be honest I am not sure his clients would appreciate anyone else working on their bows.

If anything is hurting businesses like Jimbows and Lawrence, it is guys like me that only buy used bows, flip used equipment online, have all my own tuning equipment, and learned to tune bows from internet videos.

Competition in any industry is good..... some people like Cabelas and others like P and D. Both sell guns, but each is a different experience.
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  #50  
Old 08-25-2021, 08:00 PM
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[
I wouldn't call that 10 yard lane a shooting range actually. It was just a backstop to catch arrows when people wanted to try a bow out.
But it doesn't matter really.





QUOTE=Stinky Buffalo;4405156]Just a correction - He did have an indoor range at the shop in Alberta Beach - at the very least on par with what Cabelas has.[/QUOTE]
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  #51  
Old 08-26-2021, 01:30 PM
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Lawrence's pricing is right on par with Jimbows. In some cases it is a little less and in other cases a little more.

Jimbows pricing does need to factor in more overhead, but also they are most likely getting a better price from the distributor due to the volume of product being purchase. I am sure this is why all products are purchased by the Calgary location and then shipped to Edmonton.
Doesnít really matter but not all products are purchased by Calgary and then shipped to Edmonton, they operate as separate entities under the same brand. If you look between the stores, they carry a bit of different product in response to what the local market calls for. They do swap inventory between stores if someone needs something that one store has and another doesnít, so itís good that way.

LC
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  #52  
Old 08-26-2021, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post
Doesnít really matter but not all products are purchased by Calgary and then shipped to Edmonton, they operate as separate entities under the same brand. If you look between the stores, they carry a bit of different product in response to what the local market calls for. They do swap inventory between stores if someone needs something that one store has and another doesnít, so itís good that way.

LC
My mistake, I thought everything on the online store came out of Calgary. It is good they support each like that. Actually when I call Edmonton Jimbows for a high wrist grip for my Realm X, I think they called Calgary to get it shipped up.

I guess the point is, businesses come in different sizes and they all have their advantages and disadvantages.... but that doesn't make 1 business more legitimate than the other.

My neighbor bought his bow from Lawrence 6 years ago and we went out there yesterday to get his free Prime strings installed. It was a 2 hours visit telling stories and talking about the up coming hunting seasons. When Lawrence books someone in, it is a 1 on 1 appointment and he explains everything he is doing, why he is doing it, and even tries to teach you how it is done. If you buy a new bow from Lawrence, he will meet you at bow benders and help you walk back tune, broadhead tune, and set up your sight. That is all included in the purchase of a new bow.

I never had anything but excellent service from Jimbows as well and there facility and inventory is second to none. It is just a little different experience and that probably has to do with the volume of customers at Jimbows vs a 1 on 1 experience at Lawrence. But a person can be smart about when they go Jimbows and the guys are great to have a chat with as long as they were not helping another customer. Just don't plan to go to Jimbow on Saturday in mid August and find guys not run off their feet.

As customer I am glad I have options, it would be terrible if we all drove Dodges... good for mechanics though!
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  #53  
Old 08-26-2021, 09:11 PM
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I recently purchased a bow from Lawrence, and I definitely was not offered to go anywhere to walk back tune or anything. Everything was setup when I got there, fired a few arrows through paper that produced a high right tear and off I was sent with a ďwell that looks pretty good to meĒ. Luckily I know how to deal with this stuff myself but if I didnít I certainly didnít wouldíve left there thinking I was good and that my bow was in tune. I definitely think the service you get relies heavily on if youíre a repeat customer, a buddy or even a buddy of a buddy. His prices were fair though and you can tell thereís knowledge there but in my eyes heís definitely no bow whisperer unless maybe youíre a close acquaintance.
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  #54  
Old 09-01-2021, 08:55 AM
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My recent experience with Lawrence was nothing short of plesent which unfortunately is more than I can say about Jim bows in Edmonton. For a business that I constantly heard high praises about before even touching archery I expected alot more from then. My experience wasn't with Dave but one of the other employees and I felt like I was pulling teeth.

I found Lawrence through Instagram this summer to get new strings for prime bow through warranty which was amazing considering Jim bows was going to sell me a string for $2-300.

Lawrence was great to chat with about archery as I'm just getting into and trying to learn everything that I can. He helped explain which arrows I should buy in the future and why.

If I'm going to drive an hour to either shop I may as well go to the one with better service. If the B&M wants my business they need to provide a better service. Lawrence stocks what he considers to be the better products and I'm sure can bring in most of what you would like.
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  #55  
Old 09-01-2021, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by kevin2053 View Post
Sorry, everyone, I see this situation from a different view. Many of you won't like what I have to say. I typically shy away from controversial armchair internet chatter, but I cant help myself on this one.

I have to preface this by saying it's not personal, and I have known Lawrence for a long time. He might actually agree with some of my words.

I have managed or worked in 5 different archery stores starting in 1987, and can say that working in the industry, there are many things wrong with supporting a "fella" working from his garage.

Simply, Lawrence should have to open a bonafide pro shop before purchasing and selling any archery products to customers. He should have to assume the same risks as others who have dedicated their personal savings to building a shop, employing staffing who depend on wages for a living, and offer a facility that will grow the community as a whole.

Lawrence's reputation is intact in this geographical area; however, if I was still in the archery business and made the above sacrifices owning a pro-shop in this climate, I would see that his ability to buy and sell goods was challenged. The idea that he can offer the same products as "Jimbows" (PSE and Black Gold) undermines the essence of owning a true pro-shop, along with making all the sacrifices as a business owner. This is why archery pro shops come and go in the capital area.

Not for one second should this announcement be celebrated... sorry.

Go ahead and get mad at my words. At the same time, go get your broadheads from AliExpress, then ponder why you have nowhere to shoot your bow this winter after hunting season. The practice of backyard pros may work in other industries; however, in the archery industry, it is fatal to people trying to make a living at it.

PS. Brendan's dad...love ya. Just don't agree.

K

Shake my head

I have no dog in this fight but I think this is a prime example of a authoritarian mentality. North America is the envy of nations across the world because it is (was?) the land of opportunity. Unfortunately some believe their sacrifices are more important than others, that they deserve more than others. I canít see how getting service and products from someone who sounds well liked and respected could be considered a bad thing, unless of course there is some jealousy involved which I suspect is the case here. Itís like complaining about a good mechanic that works from home. Iím going to get back into archery this year and I think Iíll buy my arrows off of this guy and see what all the hype is about.
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