Alberta Separation from Canada

[Red Bullets]

Borders have changed in North America lots too. Since 1763. interesting interactive map.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territ...-1750-2008.gif

[funkman]

Will this new country honor my CPP and old age pension?? Good luck.

[boah]

Originally Posted by funkman

Will this new country honor my CPP and old age pension?? Good luck.

Why wouldn’t the old country honour your cpp and oap? There are others that already live in other countries that still get paid. It is YOUR money.

[elkhunter11]

Even if everyone in Alberta wanted to separate, the rest of Canada would not let us leave,if we left, the other provinces would have to pay the equalization payments to Quebec, and make up the CPP shortfall that would result, since Alberta pays much more CPP than we receive.

[Bigwoodsman]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Even if everyone in Alberta wanted to separate, the rest of Canada would not let us leave,if we left, the other provinces would have to pay the equalization payments to Quebec, and make up the CPP shortfall that would result, since Alberta pays much more CPP than we receive.

My understanding is that our current constitution is written that if a province has a referendum to separate and the majority of it's residence want to separate from Canada. Then the Canadian Government must abide by the wishes of the province wanting to Separate.

Interesting that Quebec never signed on to the constitution and we are sending them gob loads of money without them being a part of Canada.

BW

[Jim]

The act of Alberta separating from Canada is being discussed more openly at the work place and in the coffee shops than ever before. Will it be easy? No it won’t be easy but it is possible. If you see unemployment creep up to around 15% once the remainder of the oil and gas sector is shut down to stop climate change a lot more people will be jumping on board.

The people who are against separation don’t want a referendum because they are afraid of the answer that they will get from the Alberta population. I say have a binding referendum and let the citizens decide. If you don’t like the results than get out.

[RO CC]

Just my two pennies.

[raab]

It’s definitely a threat, I don’t want to but if the rest of Canada wants to keep blocking pipelines we have no choice

[lmtada]

Start now by pulling out of Canada Pension Plan (same as Quebec QPP), without separation. This will put pressure on Eastern Canada. Eastern Canadian citizens, will need larger contribution to the plan (Alberta has youngest workforce in Canada), to receive the current defined benefits. There are little changes, that will make Easterners wake up.

[markg]

When you have nothing left to loose whats the worst that could happen? How would no longer being part of Canada negatively affect us any worse than what we are currently experiencing?

WE ALBERTANS ARE MORE OF A DISTINCT SOCIETY THAN QUEBEC.

1) Firearms policy
2) Approach to work and unemployment
3) Justice (crime and punishment)
4) Climate
5) Family Values

Convince me that my values on these topics are part of the majority opinion held by Canadians. Why would I want to be part of a country that doesnt care about the things I believe are most fundemental to being a human being.

Economics
I think there are well in excess of $20 Billion reasons to become our own nation. We could remain our own nation or become a protectorate of the USA like Puerto Rico our Guam. This solves the currency issue and the passport and international travel issues. Things have worked out pretty well for a Nation like Norway, imagine how wealthy the nation of Alberta could be if we controlled our own destiny?

I am pretty sure the USA would like to have the worlds 3rd largest oil reserves under there protection. It also makes the issue of access to tide water a non issue as we can ship our product via Texas or build a new pipeline to Seattle or elsewhere along the west coast.

It just makes sense.
That being said if Canada gets its collective head out of its socialist butt I would have no problem remaining. We would need to have firewalls in place though so this never happens again. Transfer payments need to become a thing of the past. We need the firewall items previously listed in place. Then I would be alright staying.

I love ALBERTA
I like Canada because Alberta is part of it.

[Mistagin]

I'd come back.
Even though my work and my wife's job are now in Ontario, our house is still in Ft. McMurray (and we loved living there, circumstances forced our move out).
It's darn near impossible to find a place to hunt around here and fishing this year has sucked too. I miss the west!!!

[cody j]

Seemed to work out fine for the United States when they chased the British out and became independent

[raab]

One thing is for sure, we need at least some of BC and Yukon to come with us. Need the access to the ocean for exports. How exciting would it be to have a country with a clean slate. In saying that if you could change anything about the way Canada is run right now what would it be? I would bring in a two term election law similar to the States. I'd also have universal privatized health care and education similar to Switzerland. Actually Id copy a lot of what Switzerland has in place.

[Mb-MBR]

Pipe dream and no better then the BQ trying to separate this country...….

[Indy]

Originally Posted by Mb-MBR

Pipe dream and no better then the BQ trying to separate this country...….

LOL - thought the last time it was tried it was pretty close...

Screen Shot 2019-10-28 at 4.41.35 PM.jpg

[Dewey Cox]

A political thread?
Let's not spoil this!

Separation would be very difficult.
The east would actively work against us.
They wont want to lose their golden goose.
I think things will turn dirtier the closer we get.
Old man Trudeau declared martial law. Dont you think justin is chomping at the bit for a reason to do that as well?

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by raab

It’s definitely a threat, I don’t want to but if the rest of Canada wants to keep blocking pipelines we have no choice

And how do you think we will get our oil to market if we separate? And don't tell me that international law says we have to have a line to a sea port. Who will enforce that, the UN. Good luck with that, they are already anti oil. The Canadian gov. will stall so long oil won't even be the energy source of choice by then.

[Flight01]

I’d rather the rest of the country respect us and fully acknowledge our contributions
Otherwise, with out actually separating we just need to ask for the same deal Quebec gets. So many rules don’t apply, direct tax non federal , and also stop sending out equalization payments. At that point wether or not the pipeline is built won’t matter. The amount saved and kept in Alberta will be a tremendous savings. Eventually another pipeline will be built.


More complicated then what I’m saying but you get the jist.
A better deal for Alberta thus saving us money and giving us more control of our own money and hopefully more pipeline in our future to continue growth.

[Bigwoodsman]

Originally Posted by markg

When you have nothing left to loose whats the worst that could happen? How would no longer being part of Canada negatively affect us any worse than what we are currently experiencing?

WE ALBERTANS ARE MORE OF A DISTINCT SOCIETY THAN QUEBEC.

1) Firearms policy
2) Approach to work and unemployment
3) Justice (crime and punishment)
4) Climate
5) Family Values

Convince me that my values on these topics are part of the majority opinion held by Canadians. Why would I want to be part of a country that doesnt care about the things I believe are most fundemental to being a human being.

Economics
I think there are well in excess of $20 Billion reasons to become our own nation. We could remain our own nation or become a protectorate of the USA like Puerto Rico our Guam. This solves the currency issue and the passport and international travel issues. Things have worked out pretty well for a Nation like Norway, imagine how wealthy the nation of Alberta could be if we controlled our own destiny?

I am pretty sure the USA would like to have the worlds 3rd largest oil reserves under there protection. It also makes the issue of access to tide water a non issue as we can ship our product via Texas or build a new pipeline to Seattle or elsewhere along the west coast.

It just makes sense.
That being said if Canada gets its collective head out of its socialist butt I would have no problem remaining. We would need to have firewalls in place though so this never happens again. Transfer payments need to become a thing of the past. We need the firewall items previously listed in place. Then I would be alright staying.

I love ALBERTA
I like Canada because Alberta is part of it.

I like the way you think!!

BW

[Bigwoodsman]

Originally Posted by Mb-MBR

Pipe dream and no better then the BQ trying to separate this country...….

The BQ HAS NO Intentions to separate. The haven’t even signed the constitution. They have to much to lose if they leave. They acted like the spoiled child kicked and screamed an got their way. If Alberta and or the west left they’re screwed so it Ottawa. No hush money for the quebecers.

BW

[Bigwoodsman]

Originally Posted by Flight01

I’d rather the rest of the country respect us and fully acknowledge our contributions
Otherwise, with out actually separating we just need to ask for the same deal Quebec gets. So many rules don’t apply, direct tax non federal , and also stop sending out equalization payments. At that point wether or not the pipeline is built won’t matter. The amount saved and kept in Alberta will be a tremendous savings. Eventually another pipeline will be built.


More complicated then what I’m saying but you get the jist.
A better deal for Alberta thus saving us money and giving us more control of our own money and hopefully more pipeline in our future to continue growth.

They will never respect the west. No need to the east controls parliament.

BW

[Dewey Cox]

Alberta is the battered wife of confederation.

[jungleboy]

Originally Posted by CasterBlaster

It'll never happen. Nor should it, I hate the Laurentian elites, the eastern vote and the fact the GTA can actually decide who wins or loses in an election as we just saw. Leaving Canada? How? We'd have to depart with our share of the national debt, what happens to the billions in federal infrastructure in the province? CFB Edmonton, CFB Wainwright, CFB Suffield? What happens to those thousands and thousands of soldiers and the families and the bases themselves? How would the province be able to respond to natural disasters? Currency? Passports? etc etc I could go on for paragraphs. This is the sort of antics Quebec tries, the separatists rear up every so often and stamp their feet and threaten to leave until common sense kicks in.

I think a much more viable solution is a balancing out of federal seats so that the west has more say. Something inherently wrong with there being more federal seats in the GTA than in the entirety of Alberta. A city and it's boroughs can decide the fate of the country? Same goes for PQ, 78 seats compared to our paltry 34. An MP in PQ has an average of 106,000 constituents, an MP in Alberta has on average 134,000 constituents. 28,000 souls in difference. Balance it out, dont create more ridings, redistribute them accordingly to population. We'd then be far better off than separating.

This ^^^ . is what we should be working toward, equal representation. Without that we will always be the battered spouse in this relationship.

[Mb-MBR]

Originally Posted by jungleboy

This ^^^ . is what we should be working toward, equal representation. Without that we will always be the battered spouse in this relationship.

Agreed...….What I dont understand is why didn't the PC government didn't work on fixing this flaw when they were in power????

I'm not familiar with the equalization payment process and how it was set up but if Alberta's debt is rising shouldn't their payments to the fund be decreasing.....? I'm of the belief that if one cant take care of itself they cant be taking care of others and if Alberta is hurting then the equalization fund should reflect the down turn in Alberta's economy.... likely too simple lol

[Jayhad]

This is how our leader thinks of us.

https://youtu.be/oA1yCIHMJwY?t=49s

It breaks my heart that one time I thought I was a die hard patriot, now I want a place for my son to grow up like I did. That place isn't this version of Canada

[CaberTosser]

Originally Posted by Dewey Cox

Alberta is the battered wife of confederation.

Who is working two jobs supporting her unemployed spouse while he won't even let her work the best paying job.

[oldgutpile]

I am 100% for it. Tired of the proverbial "taxation without representation" that we see today. Just getting milked until the udder is raw!
Some of you gents are thinking too narrow minded. This isn't just about Alberta. This is about the people in Saskatchewan, Northern Manitoba, and even Northern B.C. A new country wouldn't necessarily have to follow the old borders set out to the current provinces. Take in the north of our west coast and the Hudson Bay, and we still have access to tide water.
I'm not now, nor have I ever really been in the oil patch. But I see what is happening and the puppets that are pulling the strings. Too many of our liberal party members are puppets to the big oil conglomerations in the states, assisting them in landlocking our oil and the economy along with it, while mysterious donations are funding their special foundations (ultimately their pockets).
Pensions and such should be negotiated into the seperation, with taxes and transfer payments withheld until such an agreement can be reached.
NEVER is a very looong time! This can happen.

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by jungleboy

This ^^^ . is what we should be working toward, equal representation. Without that we will always be the battered spouse in this relationship.

Just thinking about that.

So Lethbridge should have the same say as Calgary and Edmonton?


Yup I like it. Sounds fair.

[ssyd]

Originally Posted by Mb-MBR

Agreed...….What I dont understand is why didn't the PC government didn't work on fixing this flaw when they were in power????

I'm not familiar with the equalization payment process and how it was set up but if Alberta's debt is rising shouldn't their payments to the fund be decreasing.....? I'm of the belief that if one cant take care of itself they cant be taking care of others and if Alberta is hurting then the equalization fund should reflect the down turn in Alberta's economy.... likely too simple lol

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/jas...ents-1.5334164
I read this article today that explained it pretty well.

It's essentially calculated on each province's "capacity" to earn as opposed to actual earnings. The last time these capacities were recalculated was 2009, pretty much the height of the oil boom.

Plus it sounds like we're pretty much SOL on opting out because it's written into the constitution which would require 2/3 of the provinces to vote in favour of abolishing it.

As much as I agree with jstubbs that there is little to be gained from separation talk, I could see this being a large contributor to making it happen. No way we get that kind of support for abolishing equalization.

[guywiththemule]

Originally Posted by Bigwoodsman

I've heard Kenney is giving Sparkle Socks two years to reverse bill C69 and C48 and to get TMX in the ground, before he sets a referendum. 2 years is far to long to reverse or omit bill C69 and C48. I'd set a deadline on that for February 1, 2020. Get rid of bill C69 C48 or we're having a referendum on April 1, 2020. I'd give Sparkle 6 months to show us serious pipe in the ground TMX underway.

Why does Western Canada need a Central government? For the past 152 years what has any sitting parliament done for Western Canada? Nothing really other then demand transfer payments and a steady yearly increase in the said payments. Imagine what Alberta could do with the extra 20 Billion Dollars annually.

We need to set up an Alberta Tax and pension. Our own Alberta Police force. Design a constitution. Speak with our neighbours to the north, east, west. Listen to what they have to say.

Like mentioned there are many new countries and many much smaller then Alberta or Western Canada.

If a referendum were held with a clear question asking if I am in favour of Alberta separating from Canada, I will check the Yes box!

BW

BW

This ^^^